Rev. Graham’s Garden, June 2005, Sonnet-derived from our N Y Mission trip Options

[ArtesiaMeeks]

OK............finally got to get into MM again.  We took a short trip to visit my brother.....anyway, I do appreciate all the comments.  Please know that I am not offended by any remarks for improvement to my poem.   That is what we are here for, to learn to write better.  When I wrote this poem, I just wrote....saw it was 14 lines, called it a sonnet..........when I typed it as a MM entry, I changed the lines around because I thought it sounded better.....thus, it became an UNSONNET........but had already written in, it to be a Sonnet.....SO, I apologize for any wrong message I sent.  I do appreciate all your remarks, the theme for our camp was LOVE....thus, the reason for LOVE rather than faith...per CLEO.  I am going to print the revised piece and try to make it iambic, metered, and a real Sonnet.  Will get back to you soon.........like I said before, my husband's health and cooking for him with his food plan keeps me busy......so will post again.  AND ONCE MORE, I DO appreciate all the comments.

Artesia Meeks


REVISION
We watch him deliver God’s work once more
in America’s Capitol and shining shore.
He plants the seeds, this faithful one.
He shares our needs, love of God’s Son.

We follow in his aftermath.
We foster his seeds: New York, new path.
He plants. We till. We water. We sow,
The future, our gardens will overflow,

in strange places and at strange times,
in subway cars, and wheels like chimes.
And like the tea rose in fullest bloom,
maturity brings to heaven’s room,

  where we’ll walk the streets of pure gold,
   in God’s garden, our hearts He’ll hold.

© 2005 Carol Dee Meeks

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL

We watch him deliver God’s work once more
in America’s Capitol and shining shore.
He plants the seeds, this faithful one.
He shares our needs, loves of God’s Son.
We follow as his aftermath.
We water his seeds, New York new Path.
He plants. We till. We Water. We sow,
in times these gardens will overflow,
in strange places and at strange times,
in subway cars, wheel musical chimes.
And like the roses in full bloom,
maturity brings us heaven’s room,

    where we’ll walk the streets of gold,
    and in God’s garden, our hearts He’ll hold.

© 2005 Carol Dee Meeks

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Carol.

Well done for writing this Shakespearian sonnet.

"New York new Path" is clever - like that. But why the capital P?

I didn't understand this line:

"in subway cars, wheel musical chimes."

The Garden mataphor for God's "world" is well known but you make it interesting - especially in the context of a city.

I can see you were inspired!

Well done,

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Carol

Well done for writing this sonnet.  Your visit to New York obviously made a big impression on you.

Just one question:

He shares our needs, loves of God’s Son.----should it be love in the singular?

Nina

[Guest_Cathy_*]

Hi Carol,

After the horrible things that have happened in New York
it's good to read a poem like this.

I'm not familiar with the particulars of the sonnet so I can't
offer much in the way of a crit.

He shares our needs, loves of God’s Son.

Should that be "love of God's Son."?

He plants. We till. We Water. We sow,

For the sake of consistency "Water" should be lower case.

Beautiful poem!
Cathy

[ArtesiaMeeks]

Hi Guys,

Yes, the New York trip was awesome, and did make quite an impression for my first experience there.  I'll live with these memories forever.......and I thank you for the suggestions.


J......the capitol P for path was not intended to be a capitol.  Thanks for bringing that out.

I struggled with the line
IN SUBWAY CARS, WHEELS MUSICAL CHIMES

Nina,

probably loves of God's Son should be changed to

LOVE OF GOD'S SON

you are right and also Cathy caught this as well.

and Cathy....water should not be capitolized.  Thanks for bringing all these mistakes to my attention.

NOW........do I click EDIT for corrections.....OR WHAT?

Artesia Meeks

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Carol.

To post a revision please:

• Go to the original posting
• Click the Edit button.
• Leave the original posting as it is
• Put the revised version above the original version - labelling each (e.g. Revision One / Original - that sort of thing).
• Post it.

That enables you and everyone else to see what changes have been effected.

Hope that helps?

Best wishes,

James.

[JustDaniel]

Hi, Carol.

As all the others, I do like the content of this piece, and it is certainly akin to a sonnet, even though I'm not sure exactly what kind one would call it.

Most of your lines are not iambic (as I suppose some modern sonnets are not) and most of them are not pentameter, the bulk being tetrameter.  I've written a few sonnets myself in iambic tetrameter.

Also, your rhyme scheme is unusual (as several of my early sonnets).  The normal pattern is abab cdcd efef gg (English Sonnet) or abba abba cde cde (Italian Sonnet) abab bcbc cdcd ee (Spenserian Sonnet) or even abba cddc efgefg [or efefef] (Envelope Sonnet).

Without too much effort, I think this could become rather smooth Iambic Tetrameter.  Would you like to try that direction?

deLighting in your message, Daniel  :sun:

[jgdittier]

Dear Carol,
You've something to be proud of as we can tell it is inspired.
Your feelings come through.
I am big on meter, which many here aren't. Thus, if I can help you better this, it almost must be by meter.
The problem is, better it by meter and you please those to whom meter matters. You don't add for those for whom meter doesn't matter. 'I'll go all out if it matters and will follow this one along if it doesn't.
Cheers,    Ron

[Guest_Don_*]

Hi Carol,

All that religious inspiration visiting pagan big apple....wow.

I do not feel well enough to dig through all my sonnet variations to say what is desired rhyme scheme.  I take it roughly as English due to the final couplet.

I also firmly go along with jgdittiers observations.  I too would rather see stricter meter.  Daniel has a point about the iambic.  

Anyway you and I will soon be going into the lions den with sonnets for Bards of a Feather.  So a little warmup to stretch the muscles is justified.

I really liked the tone & theme, and it seems about anything of 14 lines is considered a sonnet anymore.  I hate to see the formalities dropped, which ruin the etiquite of a sonnet.

Don   :pharoah2

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi all,

When I said "Shakesperian Sonnet" - I now realise that is what, in the USA, you call "an English Sonnet" - just different terms for the same thing.

Cheers, J.

[Guest_Don_*]

Pardon Jox, I just couldn't properly spell that playwrights name.

Don  :)

[Guest_Jox_*]

Don,

ROFL!!

(Actually I mentioned it because a few people had also - but I love your reply!)

:)

James.

[JustDaniel]

I won't quibble, of course, but an English sonnet by any name has a different rhyme scheme, as I shared above... but I do take Don's point re 14 lines and a rhyming couplet.  Any port in a storm.

Lightly, Daniel

[Guest_Don_*]

I must agree with Justdaniel that the ryhme scheme does not match any formal sonnet on my page long list.  It is corrupted by virtue of its rhyme pattern.

Shocksperean, perhaps?

Maybe this is a freeverse sonnet that just happens to have a rhyme scheme?

I donno, but it was pleasant to read regardless.

Smile for heavens sake,  Don.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Daniel, Don

>D>I won't quibble, of course, but an English sonnet by any name has a different rhyme scheme, as I shared above... but I do take Don's point re 14 lines and a rhyming couplet.  Any port in a storm.

I love that method of quibbling... "I won't quibble, of course..."

No, this all dates back to the very first crit of this. (Which was by me). I said...

“Hi Carol.”
“Well done for writing this Shakespearian sonnet.”

In my subsequent post, I was merely explaining that, I didn’t realise that, in America a Shakespearian Sonnet is called an “English sonnet (though to be strictly accurate, scholars even here would say that a S Sonnet is a sub-set of an E sonnet - but S Sonnets do dominate). That’s it. Nothing more implied. I was not defining any such form. Carol said it was a sonnet and it looked more like a Shakespearian / English one than any other (e.g. Italian)  so I was just saying “well done” to her. It was good enough for the likes of me - I’m perfectly content to leave the finer points of form to others - way over my head. And, as you two (plus Ron) are the best formists on MM I’m hardly likely to argue.

So my post was not defining a form - c’mon now chaps, you know me -- is that likely? I was just saying “well done” and it looked like a Shakespearian one (fourteen lines and ending in a couplet) I didn’t check if it was ababbcbccdcdee or whatever. So I’ll withdraw “Shakespearian” and just say:

“Hi Carol.”
“Well done for writing this sonnet.”

Carol said it was a sonnet and I simply go with what the writer says. If the writer says it’s prose, it is. If they say it’s a poem then so be it. If they say it’s freeform, that’s good enough for me. If they say it’s a sonnet - them it must be. Since it had fourteen lines, I simply called it Shakespearian.  If, on your advice, Carol the agrees it isn’t a sonnet then it isn’t, so I’ll amend to read:

“Hi Carol.”
“Well done for writing this poem.”

The concept of a freeform sonnet is brill - if rather self-defeating. Pity.

Smile for Heaven's sake?

I think we might allow ourselves that, as it has passed Easter.

(Old teacher's adage - don't smile before Easter - else the ratbags will give you a nervous breakdown ASAP.)

Cheers chaps, J.

[Guest_Don_*]

Bottom line is don't let the Bastards get you down.

Don

[Guest_Jox_*]

Ah The Itallian sommet?

Nil carbarundum illigitiums...

Cheers, Don.

Carol, I think you'd better answer your critics asap before we explode! How would you pigeon-hole your poem?

J.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Carol.

Glad to see you could log back in without a hitch...

I'm not overly versed in the sonnet however I think this piece is very telling of what you witnessed on your recent trip.

Are you interested in tightening the meter here?

Please let us know so we'll provide the critques that you desire.
The suggestions below are purely for meter - please take or toss anything you see..

Cheers!
~Cleo  :pharoah:


We watch him deliver God’s work once more
in America’s Capitol and shining shore.
He plants the seeds, this faithful one.

He shares our needs, loves of God’s Son.
He shares our needs, faith in God's Son.

We follow as his aftermath.
We follow in his aftermath.


We water his seeds, New York new Path.
We foster his seeds: New York, new Path. *suggest foster so the word 'water' isn't used twice.

He plants. We till. We Water. We sow,

in times these gardens will overflow,
The future, our gardens will overflow,

in strange places and at strange times,
peculiar places tend eccentric times,

in subway cars, wheel musical chimes.
And like the {tea} rose in full{est} bloom,
maturity brings us {to} heaven’s room,

   where we’ll walk {amble}  the streets of {purest} gold,
   and in God’s garden, our hearts He’ll hold.

[Aggiel]

Hi Carol,

This poem matches the description of your spiritual trip to me in your letter.
How quick you are to write a poem  of it just when it is fresh.
I appreciate the spirit behind the trip , not just seening  it as a poem.

Don't worry about all those comments. I'd got more than you the last time
here and braved it.

Though I can see not many use the format  here, it is recommended
you use it.

It is your poem, if you have decided  a simple rhyme poem suits your precious
memory of the trip, who is to tell you what to do.

Cleo has given you some concrete help. Go on from there.

Best of luck

Aggiel

[JustDaniel]

Dear Carol:

It appears somehow that my comments appear to some as harsh, reactionary or critical.  Please let me ASSURE you that NONE of those impressions (if they are there) are accurate.

I MERELY offered a brief overview of "sonnet" without ANYTHING negative or critical within me.

I hope that my attempt at sharing what others kindly shared with me (and some not so kindly) will be received in the spirit in which I have offered it.

If your intention is to have written a 'modern sonnet' (of which I know next to nothing), take my suggestions witha grain of salt.  If, however, you're interested in a metrical cadence, I'm always more than happy to offer my perspective.

Your not responding to anyone so far perhaps makes it difficult for any of us to know your intention... so I patiently wait your bidding to us.

deLighted in your participation in the forums, Daniel  :sun:

P.S.  AGAIN, I remind you that I like your message.