Malice Un-forethought, Wizard Award ~ A poem Options

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina,

>>I know this is a serious poem but the image I get in my head from this first verse is the scene from Carry On Screaming when Kenneth Williams first brings the monster (Odd Bod or something like that) to life with the flick of a switch and all the electricity sparks around him, bringing him to life.

LOL, well “Carry On Screaming” satirised what this is based-on, so I’m pleased you do get the right area. Anyway, a great film to be reminded about.

Interesting name St Norme for the idealistic vision the creator had of perfection and an example for humankind to follow.

Norme / Normal. Yes. Also, we tend to put people on pedestals - like saints. Moreover, “St Norme” is an anagram of “Monster.”

>>V3: this verse gives the first indication of the separation, loneliness and feeling of being on the outside, not belonging.

Thank you. I hoped it would.

>>V4: the desire to belong and be accepted

Yes.

>>V5: this sums up how we treat anyone who is different. The best they can expect is not to be noticed rather than blatantly snubbed or treated with disdain or cruelty.

Again, yes my intentions. Thank you.

>>V6: interesting that you have used the word God for Prometheus' creator who has abandoned him to fend for himself.

Well, Dr Frankie was God (the creator) to the Monster. I have no argument with God, as I don’t believe in him. However, if there were a god(s), I have to say I’m sure I would be full of contempt for him - just look at the World.

>>V7: That people see anyone who is different as a threat, just about sums up racism and also comes back to the theme of a couple of your other poems dealing with Fascism and and more specifically Nazism.

Thanks, Nina. Precisely. Indeed.

V8/9: To be accepted he has to change from the ideal and example he was created for. I find this verse very disheartening. Why can't we celebrate and accept differences as the norm and learn and grow from those different qualities? Why must everyone have to be the same to be welcomed and fit in.

Actually, I wasn’t quite meaning that - though, as you know, I find it interesting that you take a different interpretation.

I meant that, because StN was rejected, he became bitter and twisted and, since he was regarded as a monster, he became one.

V10/11: It goes against St Norme's nature to be like everyone else. He can't be happy It is all an act and to be a convincing actor he goes to the other extreme in an effort to prove himself/be powerful and hence the monster is created.

Yes, interesting. Again, I was simply taking someone who had been rejected, deciding to hit back at society.

>>Another very thought provoking poem, that gives a very bleak, depressing view of humankind.

Thank you very much. Nina. Your views are appreciated and most interesting. For the most part, our interpretations are similar.

Thanks very much for your extensive commentary / crit.

Much appreciated. J.

[Guest__*]

Dear Jox,

You have asked for more crits, I'll have another go, now that I understand enough from the foregoing.

Love
Alan

Prometheus, a modern man
forged in heat and fire:  --may not matter, but this does not seem to be a sentance ?
a hundred-thousand volts
powered his electric birth.

I shall call you St. Norme:
You shall have a saintly future;
a normality for all humankind. -- italics, or speech-marks for verse ?

Limbs working; voice talking,
he strode across the land.
A man of parts, lived in him, -- why the mid-comma ?
yet he only existed in them.

Yearned to be whole;
of the race from
whence he’d been forged. -- from whence is tautology, del whence

Though people shun
such different men:
at best to be ignored. -- again, sentence ?

Asylum denied, dejected -- move last word to next line ?
he turned, to his God: -- del comma ?
Why have you rejected me?

The good doctor, gone bad, -- del mid-comma ?
could only weep:
You are a race apart;
different: a threat. -- speech marks ?

So St. Norme turned:
against all he fought. -- awkward construct ?
Love, companionship denied:
others’ life, liberty he took. -- lives ? your others' is plural

From inception, he had -- you COULD use conception ?
no chance; no future.
He changed his ways, his name
to become what they made him.

Hope begat misery; -- Jox, I'm SURE you use semi-c far too often, don't ask why lol
desire begat slavery;
destiny begat tyranny.

St. Norme begat the Monster.

I'm minded to suggest the whole thing could be cast in present tense. But if you disagree with that, then I would strongly recommend that these last 4 lines are PT.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Alan,

You have asked for more crits, I'll have another go, now that I understand enough from the foregoing.

Thank you very much.

===============

Prometheus, a modern man
forged in heat and fire: --may not matter, but this does not seem to be a sentence ?
a hundred-thousand volts
powered his electric birth.

Well, I must admit, I don’t use sentences per se in poetry. The who ends with “birth” anyway, not “fire.” But you have alerted me to the omission of a comma at the end of line one. Thank you.

I shall call you St. Norme:
You shall have a saintly future;
a normality for all humankind. -- italics, or speech-marks for verse ?

Yup, I think you’re right, thanks.

Limbs working; voice talking,
he strode across the land.
A man of parts, lived in him, -- why the mid-comma ?
yet he only existed in them.

Good Q - cock-up I think. Thanks.

Yearned to be whole;
of the race from
whence he’d been forged. -- from whence is tautology, del whence

Why is it tautology? If I deleted it, I’d have to replace it with “which” wouldn’t I? Else, we’d have:

Yearned to be whole;
of the race from
he’d been forged.

Mind you, “which” may be a better word.

Actually, I think that verse needs re-writing, now you mention it. Thanks.
Re-written.

Though people shun
such different men:
at best to be ignored. -- again, sentence ?

Doesn’t a prose sentence need a verb to be a sentence? (To shun) (To ignore). Something about a subject, too, I expect.

But no, I wasn’t writing a sentence.

Asylum denied, dejected -- move last word to next line ?
he turned, to his God: -- del comma ?
Why have you rejected me?

Yes, thanks, dejected needs moving - silly error of mine.
Comma then superfluous. Thanks again.
I have also italicized the speech.
Also altered the lines one and two punctuation.

The good doctor, gone bad, -- del mid-comma ?
could only weep:
You are a race apart;
different: a threat. -- speech marks ?

Thanks but mid-comma retained because it delineates a sub-clause.

Not using speech marks but will italicise; thanks.

So St. Norme turned:
against all he fought. -- awkward construct ?
Love, companionship denied:
others’ life, liberty he took. -- lives ? your others' is plural

Is it an awkward construct? Maybe old fashioned, I suppose? Will think on’t. Ta.
Have changed that wording around.
plural / singular - Quite right - well-spotted; thank you.

From inception, he had -- you COULD use conception ?
no chance; no future.
He changed his ways, his name
to become what they made him.

I SHOULD use conception - thank you!

Hope begat misery; -- Jox, I'm SURE you use semi-c far too often, don't ask why lol
desire begat slavery;
destiny begat tyranny.

I love semi-colons in poetry - I simply use them for speed changes. Lists can be separated by semi-colons, though. I would love to write an entire poem in semi-colons :)

Seriously, here commas would be too little delay and full-stops too greater. Semi-colons seem about right.

St. Norme begat the Monster.

I'm minded to suggest the whole thing could be cast in present tense. But if you disagree with that, then I would strongly recommend that these last 4 lines are PT.

PT = past or present tense?

I am prone to mixing my tenses - I’ll look at the issue here. Thanks.

OK all in past tense, save the speech. Thanks.

Thanks very much, Alan - I have employed many of your suggestions and some others have spurred me to different changes. A very useful crit and greatly appreciated. Thanks.

J.

[Cybele]

Good morning James,

Frankenstein's monster rears his ugly head again?


These observations are only made on my poor recollection of the story James. Perhaps you could let me know where I have misinterpreted your very strong  and compelling piece?

Malice Un-forethought
by TC

Good title James. well thought out.


Prometheus, a modern man,
forged in heat and fire:
a hundred-thousand volts
powered his electric birth.


Throw the switch Igor!

I shall call you St. Norme:
You shall have a saintly future;
a normality for all humankind.

(Extract from reply to Fran)    So St. Norme is the perfect average?

ST Norme - I think he was meant to be. Meant to blend-in. Didn’t work that way.)

Hardly created to blend in James I’d say. A seven foot giant with a bolt through his neck??

Limbs working; voice talking,
he strode across the land.
A man of parts lived in him,
yet he only existed in them.

Yearned to be whole:
as the race from which
he’d been forged.

L1 I don’t think he was capable of reasonable thought James, certainly not emotional thought.

Though people shun
such different men:
at best to be ignored.

Asylum denied.
Dejected, he turned to his God:
Why have you rejected me?

Don’t understand how he could turn to a God of whom he had no knowledge James. Or have I got the story wrong?

The good doctor, gone bad,
could only weep:
You are a race apart;  (cliche)
different: a threat.

So St. Norme turned:
he fought against all.
Love, companionship denied:
others’ lives, liberty he took.

From conception, he had
no chance; no future.
He changed his ways, his name
to become what they made him.

Hope begat misery;
desire begat slavery;
destiny begat tyranny.

St. Norme begat the Monster.

I thought St Norme WAS the monster?

You certainly have the knack to provoke thought James, which is great.  

[Guest_Jox_*]

>>Good morning James,

Good morning to you, Grace.

Thank you very much indeed for popping in here. Much appreciated.

>>Frankenstein's monster rears his ugly head again?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

>>These observations are only made on my poor recollection of the story James. Perhaps you could let me know where I have misinterpreted your very strong  and compelling piece?

I've read through your comments, Grace and I think you've based your response on the films, not the book. I'll show why when we come to the points. However, as I said to Alan, the films are almost all a terrible travesty of the book. There are two exceptions (one I have forgotten the name of) the other is Kenneth Brannagh's version. All the B&W gothic horrors and the Hammer films are only vaguely based on the book and omit all the important aspects - eg pathos, sadness for the Monster, being isolated etc etc. The Monster is the victim in the book.

Malice Un-forethought
by TC

>>Good title James. well thought out. :rofl:

Thank you. It means that the Monster had no innate malice; it was injected into him by humans.

Prometheus, a modern man,
forged in heat and fire:
a hundred-thousand volts
powered his electric birth.

>>Throw the switch Igor!

The lightening yes. But there is no "Igor" in Frankenstein - maybe in some of the films?

I shall call you St. Norme:
You shall have a saintly future;
a normality for all humankind.

>>(Extract from reply to Fran)    So St. Norme is the perfect average?
>>ST Norme - I think he was meant to be. Meant to blend-in. Didn’t work that way.)
>>Hardly created to blend in James I’d say. A seven foot giant with a bolt through his neck??

No bolt through his neck, I’m afraid, Grace. Again, a Hollywood interpretation.
He was meant to be a “normal” man, yes.

Limbs working; voice talking,
he strode across the land.
A man of parts lived in him,
yet he only existed in them.

Yearned to be whole:
as the race from which
he’d been forged.

>>L1 I don’t think he was capable of reasonable thought James, certainly not emotional thought.

Ah! That is the whole basis of the pathos in the book, Grace. He suffered mental anguish. He was logical, emotional. He had a very human brain in a deformed body - Shelley’s central tenant in all this. I’d urge you to read the book - forget the crass films. (Or see Brannagh’s version “Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein”)

Though people shun
such different men:
at best to be ignored.

Asylum denied.
Dejected, he turned to his God:
Why have you rejected me?

>>Don’t understand how he could turn to a God of whom he had no knowledge James. Or have I got the story wrong?

He would have known of God because he had a human brain. But I didn’t mean that, His God - his creator - was Dr Frankenstein.

The good doctor, gone bad,
could only weep:
You are a race apart;  (cliche)
different: a threat.

Thanks. Possibly a cliche, yes. But employed in speech here.

So St. Norme turned:
he fought against all.
Love, companionship denied:
others’ lives, liberty he took.

From conception, he had
no chance; no future.
He changed his ways, his name
to become what they made him.

Hope begat misery;
desire begat slavery;
destiny begat tyranny.

St. Norme begat the Monster.

I thought St Norme WAS the monster?

Yes he was. But he was made monstrous by people. When created he was flesh and blood. People rejected that and begat the monster. Think of a child. We all have the potential for evil (I think) so what can tip on child into being an evil adult? People’s treatment of them. Thus with St.Norme becoming the Monster.

>>You certainly have the knack to provoke thought James, which is great.  :claps:

Thank you, Grace; much appreciated.

Hope this all makes sense? Please let me know if not.

Here is a link to an on-line version of the book:

http://www.sangfroid.com/frank/

Chapter V is the Monster’s birth.

Best wishes, Grace and thank you, again.

[Guest__*]

Dear Jox,

head-banging smiley - where are these things when you REALLY need them - Fran, HELP ! ! !

"Yearned to be whole;
of the race from
whence he’d been forged. -- from whence is tautology, del whence

Why is it tautology? If I deleted it, I’d have to replace it with “which” wouldn’t I? Else, we’d have:

Yearned to be whole;
of the race WHENCE
he’d been forged."

This idiot meant to say to delete the "from" - whence CONTAINS that concept already, hence the taut !

Apart from that, pleased to have been the bringer of light (humpf, and laughter too, it would seem).

Re : "Prometheus, a modern man
forged in heat and fire:
a hundred-thousand volts
powered his electric birth.

Well, I must admit, I don’t use sentences per se in poetry. The who ends with “birth” anyway, not “fire.”" -- that would be true except for the intervention of the colon. Can't quote why, just know it is so, sorry. I think if you used one of your sexy semi-cs I'd agree with you, or a comma or dash.

Love
Alan

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Dear Alan,

head-banging smiley (you poor thing) is : wall : (without the spaces, of course).

Love (and a cold compress)

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran,

You missed the point - the reason that Alan can't find the smiley he wants is because you have them all stashed in that blue bag of yours!

James.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for returning - again! Much appreciated.

You're no idiot - I was the idiot, I should have worked out what you meant. Sorry and thanks. Verse re-designed now, as a result of your comment, anyway.

You certainly brought light - thanks Prometheus 3 - The Alan years).

A bit puzzled about your colon argument - colons don't end sentences. No matter, though, I think your helpful crit has resulted in much improvement.

So, thank you again, Alan.

J.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Dani - sorry forget to say, sorry...

I've adopted your italics idea for verse two. (Alan and you agreed on that).

Cheers, James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Congrats James on your wizard award winning tile!

Well done!

~Cleo :)

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori,

In modern parlance, this one went straight under my radar - no idea.

Thank you very much.

J.

[Guest_Toumai_*]

congratulations, James  :cheer:

Fran

[Guest_Nina_*]

Congratulations James on your wizard award for this thought provoking poem.

Nina

[Cleo_Serapis]

This is very good James. A modern day Frankenstein.

I've two stanzas to offer slight re-woridng for you to think on.

Glad I finally came to read this piece!  :borg:  Now that I have read it-  I think your title choice is the best it could be...

Cheers!
~Cleo  :pharoah:

Prometheus, a modern man,
forged in heat and fire:
a one hundred-thousand volts  
powered his electric birth.


{He} yearned to be whole:  
as like the race from which
he’d been forged.

[Guest_Jox_*]

HI Fran, Nina and Lori,

Thank you all for your kind comments. They are much appreciated.

Lori - thanks for your crit; I'll be back on the morrow to reply (and to any other crits I've not yet answered).

J.

[Aggiel]

Congratulations James on your wizard award .


:pharoah2

Aggiel

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Agatha,

Thank you very much. Appreciated.

James.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori,

Thank for popping in.

>>This is very good James.

Thank you.

>> A modern day Frankenstein.

I hoped it was applicable to all ages but it is certainly based on Shelley’s version - not sure about modern-day, though.

>>I've two stanzas to offer slight re-woridng for you to think on.

Merci.

>>Glad I finally came to read this piece! Now that I have read it- I think your title choice is the best it could be...

Thank you.

>>a one hundred-thousand volts

Thanks I’ll think on that - emm why is it better, please?

{He} yearned to be whole:
as like the race from which
he’d been forged.

I do see the advantage of “he” - make it rather clearer. Only snag is I used “he” in the previous and end lines - so, if I can change those, then I can use “he” here. Thanks.

I’m not sure “like” is the correct word here. “Like” means similar but “as” means the same (I think). Again, to be sure, I’d have to ask what the advantage of “like” was?

Sorry to be so dense. If you could enlighten me, I’d be grateful.

I’ll certainly look to see if the “he”s can be re-jigged.

Thanks for now!

J.