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Guest_Jox_*
post Sep 5 03, 18:54
Post #1





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I was just wondering what the attitude of publishers is to items posted on Mosaic (or any other forum, for that matter)? Do they consider such a posting to be a publication or not? Since publishers want first rights (usually) it would be useful for guidance on this matter. Thank you.
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Sep 5 03, 20:05
Post #2


Mosaic Master
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Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hi Jox and WELCOME TO THE MOSAIC! Newbie.gif MusicBand.gif PartyFavor.gif

I'm not certain as to what a publisher's attitude is regarding forum boards. I will copy for you here some facts from the US Copyright Office that may help answer your question. Please reply if more information is needed. In addition, I've pasted the Mosaic's privacy policy link below for your reference.
http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/cgi-bin....24;t=27

I am going to paste some of the information from the US Copyright Office here as well, but if further information is sought, please visit their website at:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

"Publication" is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display constitutes publication. A public performance or display of a work does not of itself constitute publication.

From what I understand, the author of any work posted at Mosaic (or elsewhere) is the sole owner of that work and permission must be obtained in order to 'publish' their work. If you do not register your works for copyright through the US Copyright Office, you may want to place a copyright notice on your work that leave you in control. In addition, to prove a work your own without registering for copyright, you may want to mail a copy of your work, signed and dated to yourself, by Postal Mail Carrier and never open it. The identifying traits exist. You created a poem for example, you signed and dated it and then mailed it to yourself as proof of such authorship.

For works transmitted online, the copyrightable authorship may consist of text, artwork, music, audiovisual material (including any sounds), sound recordings, etc. Copyright does NOT protect ideas, procedures, systems, or methods of operation. 17 U.S.C. sec. 102(B).


Sure hope this helps!
Cheers!
Lori  detective.gif  smart.gif  tut.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Morgan le Fay
post Sep 5 03, 21:00
Post #3


Assyrian
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 22-August 03
From: West Monroe, Louisiana
Member No.: 20
Real Name: Chris
Writer of: Poetry



Hi Jox!

Welcome to MM!  dance.gif  Guitar.gif  Hat.gif  I'm no authority on such matters but I can relate to you my own experience.  Most e-zines and hard print publishers, consider these poetry boards " workshops ", and don't mind if you workshop your poem.  You are effectivley asking for critique when posting here or other forums, and hopefuly fine tuning your work.  Some of the e-zines and publishers will consider work that is simultaneously subimited to them and other publishers, some will not.  It's an individual thing.

I had a poem published by Poetic Voices Magazine.  Their policy was that workshoping was fine, and they excepted simultaneous submissions, but if some other publisher excepted it before they did, that you should notify them.  That did not mean that they would not publish, they just would not publish it at the same time the other publisher was running your work.  Also you should not submit a poem at the same time that it is undergoing the workshop process, only when in your mind it is a finished poem and no longer accepting critique.  Their rights to the poem usually are only of limited duration.  In Poetic Voices, their rights to sole publishing was for a two month period, as that was how long between updates on their website.

What you need to do is check out the policy of the publisher you are interested in submitting too.  They usually have their submission guidelines on their websites or in their magazine.  I hope this helps you out a little. cool.gif

Again, welcome to MM and I hope you have a great time here!!!!! :pharoah2  grinning.gif

Best regards,
Morgan le Fay
Mistress of Magic Wizard.gif


·······IPB·······

"...Morgan le Fay was not married, but put to school in a nunnery, where she became a great mistress of magic."

- ?Mallory, Morte d'Arthur

MM Award Winner
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Sep 7 03, 09:44
Post #4


Mosaic Master
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Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Thanks Morgan, our own Mistress of Magic!  :wizard: bowdown.gif

I appreciate your informative feedback! smart.gif  :detective:  :cloud9:

Cheers!
~Cleo  :pharoah:  :pharoah2  :lovie:


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Guest_Jox_*
post Sep 8 03, 03:35
Post #5





Guest






Thanks Lori and Morgan; much appreciated.

Copyright...

I do not believe that copyright is the issue here. There is no question whatsoever that copyright will be transferred - that can only done by as assignment as Cleo mentions. As MM rests in the USA it is covered by US laws. However, as I live in the England, my work is covered by the laws of England and Wales (Scotland and Northern Ireland have different laws). However, all of the UK and the US copyright laws conform to The Berne Convention I believe - so theft of work should (hopefully) not be a problem. As a note to those interested, one does not have to publish nor register one’s work to obtain copyright in the UK (any part). On simply has to write it - although, of course, telling others about it somehow may be wise if one has to prove in a court that one’s work is the original and someone else is breaking the copyright.

Public Domain...

This is my real concern. I take the point about workshops being just that. They are not commercial publishing operations in any way. However, "Google" and other spider / trawler search engines can pull references from all over the Net. As MM is accessible without a log-in code Google etc will pick-up works. In t'other words, works on MM and other such boards (nothing to do with MM in particular) will be in the public domain.

MM’s privacy policy is not relevant here. It does not stop members of the public from viewing works, nor does it do anything to hinder Google etc from registering works within MM.

There is a way round this problem which I would suggest. It is simply to require registration and then log-in before others' work can be viewed. That would make MM a private - rather than public - bulletin board, thus further protecting us (no security is perfect).  It would not change MM for any members as we log-in now anyway. At least that way one can argue with publishers that one has been careful to protect one's work.

Nor would a log-in gateway prevent MM from having a public “showcase” of works (and even crits-in-progress), the writers of which are content to have in the public domain. Such works would be there both to entertain the public and to encourage other writers to join MM. It is just that the majority of postings for crit would be invisible to the general public.

Hope this helps and I would be interested to hear of others’ comments. By the way, if we did opt for the majority of MM being a private, rather than public, forum it would affect the webmaster (sorry! ) There is work involved in changing things over, despite the fact that the change could be invisible to us. However, as I don’t have to do the work I feel quite content to suggest it as an excellent way forward for MM to better protect its members’ works.

Ok, I am off to hide from the webmaster (please tell him I caught the last shuttle to Venus if you see him). Bye to all for the moment, Jox.
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Sep 8 03, 05:21
Post #6


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hi Jox. knight.gif

I'm the webmaster silly!  Pharoah.gif  Juggle.gif  Jester.gif

I understand what you are asking and it is a simple fix. In my Admin control panel, I have a 'category control' and 'forum control' choice of making them available in the following ways:
[*]Read topics
[*]Start topics
[*]Rely to topics

In these choices above, I have each category and forum control set up so that all visitors (guests) can read topics, but only Admins, Members, Praetorians (mods) and Centurions can start and reply to topics.

The fix is to modify certain forums so that GUESTS cannot even 'read' them too.

I would suggest to only 'block' the crit forums, but I will do a POLL later today (this evening) and ask our members.

Good suggestion!
Cheers!
~Cleo  :drill:  medusa.gif  detective.gif  pilgrim.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Guest_Jox_*
post Sep 8 03, 05:39
Post #7





Guest






Sorry, updated comment lower down! (Cannot delete this entry)
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Sep 8 03, 05:48
Post #8


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Wellllll...

Imhotep does most of the 'code' for the site, so in that regard, you could say he is the 'code' webmaster. I am the layout/design/content webmaster. We are a team!  :cloud9:  :lovie:  :balloons: PartyFavor.gif Balloons.gif


As far as the search engines and spiders go (like Google), the forum board is not where I rested/placed the meta content and key words. They sit on the Mosaic's home page. We did this on purpose.

TTYL!  :dance:

~Cleo  :pharoah:


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Guest_Jox_*
post Sep 8 03, 06:06
Post #9





Guest






Lori,

Thanks for your speedy reply and ideas.

I did not realise the software was as easily configurable - that is excellent.

I basically agree with you... It is the writers' work which requires the protection. The initial logic, therefore, is that the protected areas (if they are to be enacted) would be crits and competitions.

However, on the other hand, showing competition winners may encourage potential members. Moreover, if a work has won a competition then a fair view might be that it, indeed, has been published - something which is not applicable to ordinary crit requests.

So (as I say) I agree with you that the crit areas are the critical ones.

Yes, I thought you were webmaster in that respect but when grovelling it pays to be circumspect! (Anyway, I didn't bother with the Venusian shuttle - the lunches they serve are terrible so I'm not sorry).

Look forward to next instalment!

PS Clever idea about meta tags / words. So MM is not just pretty... under that pyramid is a solid foundation!

Jox.
 
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