Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

IPB
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Forum Changes to Poetry Category, Your feedback welcome!
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 10:04
Post #1


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hello everyone reading this tile!  wave.gif

A while ago, James and I had a conversation regarding site navigation and forum layout. James has kindly mentioned this topic to me again this morning which I believe has great merit and will summarize here in the thread.  detective.gif

New visitors to MM often times get overwhelmed by all the forum offerings (mostly in the Poetry area). I've just made one merge a few minutes ago for the less frequented forum "Garden of Eden" formerly for polished works - not for critique. I have taken all the posts in there and merged them into "Plato's Pearls of Wisdom" and slightly re-worded the forum description. Now, the new and improved forum shall be used as follows:

Plato's Pearls of Wisdom (Exhibition - NOT for Critique)
Posts in this forum are for exhibition and polished works only. Post here only when poet feels their work is polished or does not seek a critique. Thanks for adding tiles to our Mosaic! All forms of poetry are welcome in this forum.
The 1:3:2 rule applies here. See forum rules for more details.

I am also planning to have also merged Punner's Paradise (Comedic Themes), and The Fountain of Youth (Youthful Themes) into Angkor Wat Accolades (Seasonal Works) and re-worded it as 'Themed Works - Not for Critique'.

Now for the REAL challenge:  detective.gif
We would like to CHANGE the format of Homer's Homilies (Poetry for GENTLE Critique) AND Socrates’ Synapse (Poetry for COMPLEX Critique).

Most of our writers already provide a complex or thorough critique to those posts in Homers. Questions have arisen with regard to Socrates. To quote James (Jox):
QUOTE
There are more poems than ever on MM and two or three posting forums may be justified - but I would suggest along different lines than at present. Maybe one could be form poems and another freeform? A third could be non-form rhyming and so on.


I am in agreement with James' idea in that I would like make a change to both forums and do away with a 'gentle' verses 'complex' critique division. Idea.gif

The idea is to change Homers to be a 'structured R & M (form) poetry' forum and Socrates to a 'non-structured (freeform) poetry' forum.

If our members agree, it will take me a while to move the posts accordingly between Homers and Socrates but all in all, I  like the sound  sings.gif and beat  dance.gif of this idea and I feel it would be an improvement to MM's forum board.

On a second note, I would also like to begin a forum for external competitions offered elsewhere on the Internet - perhaps within Incan Inversions?
Any suggestions and referals are most welcome!

Your feedback is appreciated all!  king.gif

Cheers! cheer.gif
GroupHug.gif

~Cleo  Pharoah.gif



·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Toumai_*
post Jan 15 05, 11:17
Post #2





Guest






Hi Cleo,

MM certainly is a little daunting at first glance, but with familiarity it is far easier (and much quicker) to navigate than some sites.

It would seem like an excellent idea to combine some of the lesser-used forums.

As regards changing Homers and Socrates I cannot comment, except that in my brief glance at the latter the crits do not seem to be much different than in the former, at least to my inexperienced eye.

My natural home would currently be in freeform poetry, but I think that we can all learn, so I am not so sure about separating form and non-form - lest I become too nervous to ever visit the latter.

Those are my first thoughts on this.

Regards,
Fran
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 11:26
Post #3





Guest






Hi,

Scientific Poem Competition -

Sorry about this but:

Entries must be submitted by the poet themselves who must be resident in the UK and Republic of Ireland. (I think that is UK OR ROI - I don't think we have to have two houses in two countries to qualify).

Deadline: 11th February 2005 - 17:00 hrs GMT (5pm)

--------------------------------------------------------
I saw this item in The Times (London), today...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1438764,00.html

(worth reading - contains Sir Patrick's Moor's "Futility" (Title same as Wilfred Owen's famous poem). This poem has references to brussles sprouts and snow - from one of Britain's most famous polymaths. So I feel I'm on the right track!)

Here is the relevant web page:

Poem comp web site

 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jan 15 05, 13:50
Post #4





Guest






Dear Cleo,

Suddenly, I KNOW why MM site navigation is so hard !

On many poetry sites, eg Poem train, the MAIN group heading AND the sub headings AND the description/instructs are all visible at the same time, while here, we only have the MAIN HEADING, then we have to click and search the sub-headings separately.

The nearest we get to a full, easy-to-follow listing is the "Forum Jump" place, where there is a bare skeletal version, of headings only, of what Poem Train supplies in its main listings.

I've been here since nearly day 1, and I was lost the other day trying to find where the archives were hidden !

Cleo, have a look at Poem Train at http://www.poemtrain.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi
to see what I mean.

As to amending Homer & Socrates, I agree that the level of crit is pretty damn good, and deep, in both, and have noted that the amount of traffic in Soc is derisory.

My only problem with the proposed change is, I can't say that I know what is a structed or form poem from a not- one !

Would Homer be strictly for vilanelles, sonnets, haiku and limericks (etc) ? Or would any say 4-line x 4 poem qualify ? Rhymed or not ? Opportunities for more confusion, I'd say.

My way to go would be to have 3 separate AND EQUAL posting forums, A, B and C, so that prolific poets like Jox and Cleo and me could in effect rotate them, and post one poem a day. I have to confess I have found it frustrating to have to wait 3 days to post another, when I might have written 4 in a day, and going to the present Soc has not worked because of the low traffic volume, caused I think by other poets' trepidation re the heavy crit rules. So barely any crit there at all.

If we had 3 equal fora (um, is that right ? ) then we would also avoid slap on the wrist situations where a poem is deemed to be in the "wrong" one ! (Cuz my wrists hurt easy). Thus we simplify even more.

We could run a comp to name the new ABC fora, say Archimedes, Boccaccio and Copernicus ?

Love
Alan (profesional simpleton)
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jan 15 05, 16:17
Post #5





Guest






Hi Cleo

It does seem a good idea to combine some of the lesser used forums.  

Being new to the site, I haven't yet worked out the difference between Homer's gentle crit and Socrates complex one except to say that the words complex critique means it is quite a daunting prospect to post there.  I am not very adventurous and tend to stick to just the one forum - Homer's, which I get a lot of enjoyment form.

Like Alan, I do not know what is a form poem and what is not, so I wouldn't be sure where to post

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 16:29
Post #6





Guest






Hi all & Lori, Alan, Nina,

The division into form / non-form was my way of trying to make the poetry section work better. In many ways, the ideal would be just one forum for poetry. However, that would mean too many poems in one forum - they would disappear too quickly; many with inadequate crit.

So suggestions for divisions within poetry crit are needed. Alan has made some interesting ones which seem very worthy of consideration; though there are problems with that suggestion too, of course. ("Of course," because nothing will be perfect - just looking for best possible improvement).

I'm going over to look at the place Alan suggested and to think about that.

What do others think please? Any other solutions?

James.
========================================================

PS Alan - just been to poet train and couldn't understand anything there at all. Are you a member because, certainly as a non-member I couldn't get anywhere. Seemed quite depressing - never found any of the forums ???

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 17:06
Post #7


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Thanks all so far for your responses!

I've also heard privately from a few other members and perhaps what they've written to me may make more sense regarding a new division of Homers and Socrates?

Homers would be the place for R & M (rhyme & meter) poetry. This would include formal types of poetry like haiku, rondeau, sonnets, villanelles, pantoums, cinquains etc... as well as simple rhyming poems in the form of couplets or quatrains.

Socrates would be the place for FV (free verse) poetry. This would include those poems where there are no rhymed lines, patterns or formal poetic styles applied.

In both forums, the same rules of critique would apply. One member suggests that we create a star system or something along those lines so the writers can designate the level of crit they desire from a scale of 1,2 and 3 stars (for example) ~ mild, moderate and complex.

I'd still keep the same forum rules though 1:3:2 (sorry Alan), and am considering an 'archive' of the current posts in Homers and Socrates so we start fresh again....

What do you think?

P.S. Alan - I also could not access Poem Train since I am not a member there.

~Cleo  :pharoah2


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 17:17
Post #8





Guest






Lori...

That makes things simpler. A slight problem, though. What about hybrid poems where parts rhyme and parts don't... I would suggest that is within the spirit of free verse - i.e. not a "proper" rhyme scheme so ought to go in with FreeVerse. Make sense? (These do exist - I have a few on MM already).

Tha archive is essential - without it the start will be very muddy and no one can sensibly plot through 1,000 + poems to sort them. An archive allows comment etc as an active forum would and, if we're desperate to pull an old poem out it will go to the top of the pile, so be seen anyway on the new postings list. We could even bring old poems into the new forum if we wanted more advice - so nothing lost at all. A fresh start would be ideal I think.

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 17:44
Post #9


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hello James.

Yes - that seems fair - partial rhyme would still be considered FV if no metrical pattern exists otherwise...

Regarding the archiving: I would most likely lose Homers and Socrates as the posting forums (perhaps use Alan's ideas for naming the TWO forums? As you can see - I like to use words starting with same letters.

Maybe in starting 'FRESH' I would move back all the posts started in 2005 January so there are some poems to start with?

I would make the 'archive' forum for MEMBERS only as well... And YES, anyone could still go in them and comment/crit existing posts but I would restrict the archive forum(s) so no 'New Topics' could be started in them. This would remind members to go into the new Homers and Socrates for New Topic postings and reserve the old ones for comments only.....

Sound good?
~Cleo  dance.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 17:50
Post #10





Guest






Sounds excellent.

Why not restrict "starting" posts to 2005 (i.e. Jan). That seems an ideal new start. We're already two weeks in and most poems start sinking within that time anyway (although the new system might actually give them greater longevity because Homer's will be under much reduced pressure).

"Yes - that seems fair - partial rhyme would still be considered FV if no metrical pattern exists otherwise..."

To be parochical that would certainly suit me - I haven't yet been accused of employing any metrical pattern (I'm still working in yards).

Members only archives and no new threads / tiles would be essential, else we'll start tripping up over the archives.

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jan 15 05, 17:54
Post #11





Guest






Dear Cleo and Jox,

I'm bothered by making posting rules based upon poetry-technical criteria.

I know this is laughable, but, rather like I speak English quite well from long practise, experience and innate "nous", thus with poetry.

As an example, here is a phrase from Jox's last post :

partial rhyme would still be considered FV if no metrical pattern exists otherwise...

Huh ?

I can guarantee that I will make mistakes, or that I and others will be so uncertain that some will not post much at all. Many poets write "from the heart", not from a text-book, and I and many others pick up some of these details of knowledge, form etc through crits on places like MM, ONCE WE HAVE DARED POST.

This is a plea for simplicity. At least easy/hard crit was simple ! And most plumped for easy.

Love
Alan
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 18:01
Post #12





Guest






Hi Alan, actually that was a quote from Lori's post above mine.

But I see your point. emm??? Thinking... (may take some time!)

James.

OK, Lori, in that specific case was answering my question about poems which partially rhyme and partially don't. Nevertheless, that does not address your real point.

 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jan 15 05, 18:05
Post #13





Guest






Dear Jox,

My point in essence :

Do I want simple or harsh crit - um, the first. Easy choice.

Did I write metrical (whatever that is) a form (I knew only a few, mainly obscure Welsh ones ! ) rhymed, trochaic, blunderbussed, where do I post this , er um, ah fergeddit.

Love
Alan

I still think 3 fora for all would work, no decision, easy peasy.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 18:05
Post #14


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Potential NEW forum names for FV poetry:

Hadrian's Homiles

Hannibal's Homiles

Hermia's Homiles

Hydra's Homiles

Ptolemy's Perusings



Potential NEW forum names for R & M poetry:

Sargon's Synapse

Spartacus' Synapse

Seren's Synapse
Napolean's Synapse or someting with an "s"


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 18:09
Post #15





Guest






Hi Alan,

Sorry - yes, I understood your point very well. I just don't have a reply for you. Still thinking. Sorry, takes ages. Lori any comment?

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 18:11
Post #16


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Oops!
Now you two have been busy posting whilst I type, tap tap.... grinning.gif


AS to R & M - simple: If your poem has end rhymes and/or is of a formal poetic style then R & M is the forum..

If your poem has no rhyming end lines or metrical unit (like a quatrain or couplet) and various line lengths and stanza lengths, then it would be a FV post....

sun.gif  StarWars1.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jan 15 05, 18:15
Post #17





Guest






Hi Lori and James

I'm with Alan on this.  Simplicity please.  At the moment my mouse knows to go straight to Homer (actually Homer's is on my favourites). and I can get there with 2 clicks.

With the changes, instead of posting in one forum, I will have to post in 2, depending on whether my poem is in rhyme or free verse.  

My next question is - if I post a rhyming poem in one forum will I have to wait 3 days before posting a free verse poem in the other forum?

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 18:15
Post #18





Guest






Well, yes that does seem simple sense to me, Lori - good.

Is that really confusing, Alan? I know that you won't be confused by it but I realise that you're trying to speak for others who might be...

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jan 15 05, 18:21
Post #19





Guest






Hi Nina.

I like the idea of simplicity, too. But the present system is not working.

Socrates (which you say you are unsure of) is dying.

OK, we could just have one forum but each member would see their poem disappear faster than at present with possibly fewer crits.

So I think we do need two to three forums.

Next question (if one accepts that) how to divide them.

Is Lori's latest post (above yours) not simple?

I would have thought that one member could then post a poem in one forum and another in the other virtually simultaneously if they wishes - each forum having seperate three day rules.

I take Alan's point and it seems to have a lot going for it but I just wonder if most people would end-up migrating to just one forum after a while?

James.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 15 05, 18:33
Post #20


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hello Nina!  wave.gif

Hmmm - I will ask Eric and Ron to assist me with a better definition of R & M v. FV..

As for posting rules - each forum has their own rules and the same would apply in the two new forums:

The *1:3:2 rule applies here. You may post (1) thread every (3) days with at least (2) critiques to other's works.
Post no more than 1 poem per 3 day period - with the required 2 replies.

There is no cross-over or waiting required of the forums as each is unique with its own rules, so YES by all means, each of us can post in Homers and Socrates and Stonehenge and Loch Ness etc... on the same day BUT the individual forums each have their own rules. In Homer's one post every three days with two crits. Same in Socrates etc....

Does that help?

Cleo


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 14th October 2019 - 15:48




Read our FLYERS - click below



Reference links provided to aid in fine-tuning your writings. ENJOY!

more Quotes
more Art Quotes
Dictionary.com ~ Thesaurus.com

Search:
for
Type in a word below to find its rhymes, synonyms, and more:

Word: