Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

IPB
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Voices should be heard, Act, do not Say .....
Cleo_Serapis
post Nov 6 04, 13:08
Post #1


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hi all.

First off, let me say this before I post this new debate:
[*]I do not want to hear which party you are
[*]I do not want this to become a personal statement
[*]I DO want this to be a place to voice your opinion, YOUR opinion...

OK, here goes:

"Tis easy enough to be pleasant
when life flows along like a song
but the man worthwhile
is the one who will smile
when everything goes dead wrong."
~Anonymous

I'm sure most everyone reading this thread now knows that our President Bush was re-elected for another 4 year term on Tuesday.

It has been widely publicized that the parties spent more money in this election toward the 'college votes'.  What is surprizing to me is that the last I read, only 17% of the college-aged Americans actually voted! 17%!!!!!!

If they say the future is in the hands of our younger generations, then we must show them how to DO what they SAY and put their money where their mouth is, IMHO. There has been talk of the student demonstrations (picketing the parties they disagree with) etc.. and this will continue in our country. I have no issue with that, after all, here in my country, freedom of speech is a powerful tool & right.

I'm not here to say which party I chose, nor do I wish to hear who your party is, I DO however, want to get a discussion going, regarding the CHOICES that our younger generations should understand.

The following is from "Google" searching 'new selective service legislation' regarding a potential "draft":

Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year.

Every few months Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld gets peppered with the nettlesome question about whether the administration, straining to keep boots on the ground around the globe, is considering reviving the compulsory military service draft – moribund since 1973. The answer is always an unqualified “No.”

Inquiries by NewsMax – and a persistent host of others, says the agency – to the Selective Service System (SSS) about an impending return to the draft are answered as well with an explicit canned denial:

“Notwithstanding recent stories in the news media and on the Internet, Selective Service is not getting ready to conduct a draft for the U.S. Armed Forces – either with a special skills or regular draft.

“Rather, the Agency remains prepared to manage a draft if and when the President and the Congress so direct. This responsibility has been ongoing since 1980 and is nothing new.

“Further, both the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the War on Terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq.

“Additionally, the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate a draft. Therefore, Selective Service continues to refine its plans to be prepared as is required by law, and to register young men who are ages 18 through 25.”

For sure, “The Selective Service System’s Annual Performance Plan for Fiscal Year 2004,” is a document that leaves the careful reader with anything but the impression of a sleepy agency drilling for a fire it knows will never flare.

By early next year, the government will be test firing a mobilization infrastructure of 56 state headquarters, 442 area offices, and 1,980 local boards.

Funding is in the coffers to kick off a rigorous “Area Office Prototype Exercise,” which will “test the activation process from SSS Lottery input to the issuance of First Armed Forces Examination Orders.”

Ramping up is the “Selective Service System’s High School Registrar Program,” a plan to put volunteer registrars in at least 85 percent of the nation’s high schools – an increase from 65 percent in 1998.

At the head of the busy-work list – a no-nonsense commitment to report to the president by March 31st, 2005 that the system is ready to roll full steam within 75 days, which would clear the decks for a first lottery by June 15th, 2005.

Meanwhile, helping the agency to reach its goals and objectives is a little known provision of the No Child Left Behind Act that requires schools to provide contact information for every student – upon pain of losing federal aid dollars...

For the rest of the article, click here: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...24/104815.shtml


The eRumor warns that there are two bills before Congress that, if passed, would bring back the military draft and make it mandatory for both boys and girls starting in June, 2005.

The bills, S.89 and H.R.163 are real. But they are not new.

An eRumor started circulating in June, 2004 warning that the draft was only a year away. In reality, these twin bills have existed since 2003 and have never gotten out of committees.

In other words, they are stagnant.

Nobody in Washington seriously expects a draft and certainly not by 2005.

It's known as the "reinstate draft" bill or the "Universal National Service Act of 2003."

The wording of the bill says it is "To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes."

It would require U.S. citizens and other residents, both male and female, between the ages of 18 and 26 to serve two years of "national service."

The reason the bills have gotten attention in 2004 is the military actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the war on terrorism. There has been debate about troop strength in Iraq and the status of all the U.S. Armed Forces.

The U.S. Selective Service, however, says that despite the Internet stories, the agency is not getting ready to conduct a draft. It says it is ready to do so should the President and Congress decide, but "that responsibility has been ongoing since 1980 and is nothing new."

The Selective Service further says that "...both the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the War on Terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq. Additionally, the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate a draft."

1.) The legislation to reintroduce the draft was initiated in January
of 2003 by Charles Rangel (Dem) and sponsored by the likes of Sheila
Jackson-Lee, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Jesse Jackson Jr. and other
extreme left-wing democrats. In the Senate it was introduced by
retiring Ernest Hollings, also a Democrat. In other words, no
Republicans involved and not even any mid-stream Democrats.  

2.) Two weeks ago the measure was called to a vote and defeated 421-2 in the House. Not even the sponsors voted for it.  

3.) The Bush administration has repeatedly indicated that it is
satisfied with the size of the military.

4.) The Kerry campaign has indicated a need to add divisions and
increase Special Forces by 40,000 (ignoring the fact the SF folks
require about 4-6 years of experience before qualifying for the
specialty.)

5.) The current US military is smaller than it has been since before
WW II.  

6.) The high-tech, all-volunteer force is not easily adaptable to a
conscription system which doesn't have the ability to control
motivation or qualification of the input.  


Any takers on this debate?
~Cleo  Pharoah.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Don_*
post Nov 7 04, 14:26
Post #2





Guest






I must apologize for breaking the request "I do not want this to become a personal statement."  Following is personal opinion, which is personal statement.  Controversy will be minimized.  Our United States once had the best and brightest in office within President Kennedy's administration.  It demonstrated that educated and brilliant minds may fail as well as anyone.

I shall not unravel the intent of secret vote by revealing where my paper was punched in the voting booth.  However, individuals were punched for reasoning external to party affiliation. As to second term presidents, they normally are lameducks and achieve comparatively little.  FDR—Franklin Roosevelt—would have been no exception without World War II, which saved his reputation from disasterous attempt to pack our Supreme Court.  In short, don't get too excited about what the conservatives may do to the liberals.

I was not aware that only 17% of college students voted.  Keep in mind that it is the young blood in learning institutions around the world that tend to adamantly oppose their currently established government.  It is wonderful that millions of dollars were thrown at U.S. college-age to reverse trend that they don't vote or demonstrate political activism.  Remember, the usual American fix is spend money. If it doesn't work, then spend more.

Selective Service:
I read liberal magazines such as The Atlantic Monthly and Harper's.  I read conservative rags likeNational Review.  I get academic and historical insights from such as The Wilson Quarterly.  I am not too keen on The New York Times or Time, which are touted to be the greatest sources since sliced bread. I shall slice, dice and spread my own, thank you.  

James Fallows is a pretty liberal writer. He wrote, "Will Iran be Next?" in December 2004 issue of The Altantic.  In this same issue is the spector of going to war with Mainland China over Taiwanese politics by Trevor Corson.  Hardly news anymore is the difficulties with North Korea.  Bottom line is our military is a thin rubberband and more global dike leaks may be more than a heroic Dutch boy can plug.

Obviously, reinstating draft is a serious consideration if more youth are needed.  My opinion is such a safety valve is no more than conventional contingency.  The bulk of our military is corporate mercenary.  A high-tech need cannot be quickly filled by conscription.  Vast quantities of security hardware are manufactured in our prisons. Why not worry about increase of required workers garnered by our justice system like China?  Much like the British before us, we maneuver foreigners to fight for our interests.  

Historically each nation begins with a citizen military, and evolves to total dependance upon mercenary replacement as population becomes wealthier and lazier. U.S. is on downhill slope of historical verification.  European Roman Empire was the last to wage war profitably.  Social and economic evolution now makes any war expensive and any government emulating Roman conquest will bankrupt itself.  Be more concerned about poverty than being drafted.

All of the above is thought limited to conventional defense and offense for external protection and politics.  Liberty is word British use in place of U.S. freedom.  What about internal integrity?  The so called war on terror has effectively instilled fear among the sheep for the wolves to pick and choose their next meal at will.  How much freedom/liberty have we already yielded?  Is further regulation and threatened conscription merely more of the fear factor to control and manage population?  

Are educational employees likely to rebuff a system that feeds it?  Do cows cease rushing to the warm barn for feed?  Tentacles of government are everywhere and almost impossible to counter intelligently.  If your congressional representative, as only one of millions, is working full time on issues that you have insignificant time to consider, then the frame of personal liberty/freedom is not yours to craft.

The common threads are what bind a people. If everyone believes in God, for instance, then it is a common bond of trust.  If half the populace wants war and half want peace, then a teeter-totter will cast the outcome.  I was raised on values of western movement from ancient Greece, which was a loose common bondand deconstructionist say is moot.  If 98 percent are afraid to stand on principal, then only 2% will.  Are you ready to take hemlock as Socrates did when the state decides you are unworthy?  Will you have that option?

Perhaps 83% of the seemingly disinterested college-age concluded that it does not matter.  


Just one set of opinions

Don
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Charon
post Jan 1 05, 22:21
Post #3


Egyptian
**

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 431
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Member No.: 5
Real Name: Butch
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



I can't believe I missed all these topics, wow!

As one who served in the military during war and was a very young volunteer, 17 at the time, and now the father of six children, this has entered my mind a lot.  At times I am appalled at the younger generations.  The lack of civic pride, citizenship and even the lack of commitment.  However, whenever I begin to feel terrible and wonder if this country will survive another ten years, let alone 200, I discover what is right about this country.  I meet a young serviceman or woman on the street, in a store.  They are no different then I, when I was younger.  

First I am a proponent for the draft, every single person when they reach the age of 18 should either serve in the military or do community service.  By community service, I mean they are disrupted from their home, moved to the inner cities or wherever, hundreds of miles from home.  There they work on road crews, build civic buildings, help older people maintain their homes, etc.  Each serves four years, same pay, with the exception of combat pay.  You can only serve community service if you can proved beyond a resonable doubt, by your peers, that you are a consentious objector.

Then after serving four years you receive a free college education at any college in your home state.  During your stay at the college you will work for the college, maintain it, etc.  Upon graduation, or drop out, you are on your own to make it in the business world.  However, I do believe you will have a different opinion of life.

I also believe in isolationism.  I know, I know, it won't work.  However, I would like to think it could.  No more foreign aid to countries.  Kick out the UN, let it find another place to be corrupt.  No more free education to foreign students.  Our ideas stay here, Europe, Asia, Africa solve your own problems.  Most of our ancestors, and I say most, left because you were screwed up in the first place.  Those that don't like this country, fine, good bye.  Those that want to be a part, active, constructionists, work with your hands and your bodies, you are welcome.  Murders, thieves, corrupt, go away, or we will deal with you harshly, very harshly, very, very harshly.  Utopia, no, but vastly improved.  

Can it happen, nope, power corrupts, period.  

We have never, ever had an honest politican in this country, ever.  Every single one had some fault, Washington, Jefferson had slaves.  Lincoln helped the railroads steal the land from poor farmers.  He wasn't even against slavery when he took the office, he was against state's rights.  As Will Rogers said so many years ago, the easiest way to tell if a politican is lying is watch his lips, when they move, he's lying.  And now the women have gotten involved as well and guess what, they have proven they can be just as vicious, meansprited as the men.  Some of the worlds worst wars were fought under matrical societies.  But let's not lose our heads over that point, eh Mary, Queen of Scots?  Maybe break bread or eat cake, umhhh Marie?

I have had the fortunate or unfortunate opportunities to see most of America, at its best and at its worst.  When I left home at 17, I was niave.  My mom and dad were the Cleavers on leave it to Beaver.  I did not know my own home town had separate schools for blacks and whites.  I did not know there was businesses blacks could not go into.  I did not know they were forced to shop in their "own" stores.  I did not grow up in the South, but rather the northern mid plains, the heart of freedom.  When I went to school in the 50's there was only one great black man, some guy named Washington Carver.  Years later I was to discover, there was not only one, but millions upon millions.  Leaders of the time, in my country, Demos and Reps.  There was no difference, it was black and white.

My hometown was never the same when I returned.  First of all, I was the lowest of the lowest from having served in the Navy.  I was spit upon, shamed upon and preached against - by my own church and minister.  It was not the parents and grandparents who were subjecting this ridicule upon us returning servicemen, but your parents, my fellow 17-21 year olds.  Those that stayed at home, dodged the draft, ran away to Canada.  These were the same ones who continued the discrimation, and fought against change.

Why?  Because they were ignorant, pampered, children.  They had not seen the world, nor would they, until they were rich enough to be pampered again, on vacations.

Bring back the draft, yes, but this time do it better.  You would think that after all these years, the draft was used in even in the Civil War (and there were riots then), and yes the military killed civilians who were peacefully protesting the draft, (and more than 4 were killed) we would know how to do it better.  And if we are going to fight a war, then fight the damn war, use all your weapons.

Scary, you bet, maybe just maybe, we will scare the wadding out of everyone, including ourselves, and never go to war again.  

By the way, I do have a daughter who serves in the military, and had a son who served and is now out.  I would volunteer now if they would take an old man, with a bad heart, and damaged leg.  I served - Vietnam War, my father - WWII, my great uncle - WWI, my 9 times removed grandfather served in the Revolutionary War and was at Valley Forge, French and Indian War, War of 1812, multiple uncles on both sides in the Civil War (we lived in Kentucky and Tennessee and Missouri in those days) and have ancestors who fought in the wars in Europe, including but not limited to the 100 years war, France - Flemish War, Napeleon (we were on the side of the French - other side of the family) and others.  

I would like to be able to say, just once in my life, there is peace in the world.  

Can it happen?


·······IPB·······

Beware the smile
for it hides a good time.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 2 05, 09:49
Post #4


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Wow Butch!

You pack alot into your reply!

I guess I have my own thoughts about your comments, some I agree with and some I do not. However, it is not to say that you cannot voice it. One must be careful though not to offend.

I would like to see a draft come. I think Peter told me (or maybe my dad) that in 2004, we have the LOWEST number of military forces we've seen in decades. And if we keep sending our forces overseas to supposedly "keep the peace", then how can we defend our own?

As you know, I'm not into discussing politics too often, however, I cannot understand why we don't keep our own country first, instead of sending everyone we have to other countries to fight a war we cannot win. Just because we value freedom doesn't mean we should 'dictate' that to other countries. I sy, let them figure it out and we should stay out of it. I mean this with regard to warring of course.

When it comes to disasters - I think it behooves us all to send aide, show support and do whatever we can as a power country to help. BUT - it doesn't mean we should be the ONLY one to help too.


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Charon
post Jan 2 05, 17:43
Post #5


Egyptian
**

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 431
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Member No.: 5
Real Name: Butch
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



I agree with your comments. wink.gif

Sorry, every once in a while, I just have to vent.  Let's see the last time was in court against my first wife in 1976, when the judge told me to be quiet then as well.  :laugh:   

Also understand we are not fighting a war.  The media calls it a war.  

In a war you use all your weapons.  What we have chosen to conduct is a police action.  Police action, you enforce the rules, you follow rules, and certain behaviors.  

We could and would win any war we desired to finish.  Obviously the world would be a different place, possibly a little colder or burnt to a crisp.  :knight:

Police actions, we will win some and lose some, just watch Cops on TV or Court TV and you will see what I mean. butterfly.gif

The last time we fought a war was WWII, then we used all our weapons.  And it was scary.  No one that is sane ever wants to see that again.

I'll go back over to the other side of the river and be quiet.

Charon  :ghostface:


·······IPB·······

Beware the smile
for it hides a good time.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cleo_Serapis
post Jan 2 05, 17:46
Post #6


Mosaic Master
Group Icon

Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



QUOTE (Charon @ Jan. 02 2005, 17:43)
I agree.  Sorry, every once in a while, I just have to vent.  

I'll shut up, now.

Charon

By all means - don't shut up!?

kEEP IT COMING......


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Charon
post Jan 2 05, 17:52
Post #7


Egyptian
**

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 431
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Member No.: 5
Real Name: Butch
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



I reworded the above.


·······IPB·······

Beware the smile
for it hides a good time.

MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 3rd August 2020 - 04:49




Read our FLYERS - click below



Reference links provided to aid in fine-tuning your writings. ENJOY!

more Quotes
more Art Quotes
Dictionary.com ~ Thesaurus.com

Search:
for
Type in a word below to find its rhymes, synonyms, and more:

Word: