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Haiku or not, Wizard Award ~ haiku without season |
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Jun 1 07, 17:44
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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4th version a soft kiss upon my skin snowflake With special thanks to Lary, Cleo, Liz and Snow. 3rd version softly as snowfall she kisses, I feel it not cool upon my skin
2nd version Softly like snowfall she kisses, I feel it not cold upon my skin
1st version Softly so softly you kiss me, I felt it not not upon my skin
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Jun 1 07, 21:27
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 18-April 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 421
Real Name: laryalee fraser
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Kathy Earsman
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Hi Terry, it's nice to meet you! This is such a lovely poem... not a haiku, but for me, it has a tanka feel to it...adding a couple more lines could create one? I'm not very good with tanka, but I enjoy reading it. Here's a great link, if you're interested: http://people.uleth.ca/~uzawa/eigotan.htmOne thought, since "kiss" is present tense, would it work better with "I feel"? Lary
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Jun 2 07, 04:50
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Mosaic Master
Group: Praetorian
Posts: 4,599
Joined: 4-August 03
From: Birmingham, England
Member No.: 12
Real Name: Eira Needham
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori
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Hi Terry I give a thumbs up to a tanka for this one. Snow
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Jun 2 07, 06:35
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Mosaic Master
Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,892
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep
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Hi Terry, Welcome to our new forum! On first read, I made three observations: (1) this seems more like a Senryu since its about 'people' and (2) the repeat of words seems overkill and (3) the double negative seems out of place? QUOTE Softly so softly you kiss me, I felt it not not upon my skin Perhaps with a little playing - you could add a season element like 'summer wind, spring breezes' or something else that enhances the 'softly' phrase/image? Maybe something like: A summer breeze echoes a soft kiss -- not upon my skin or A warm wind ? ~Cleo
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"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the RingsCollaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind. "I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. KanterNominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here! "Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.MM Award Winner
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Jun 2 07, 15:51
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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QUOTE (Eisa @ Jun 2 07, 10:50 ) Hi Terry I give a thumbs up to a tanka for this one. Snow Hi Snow, what a happy chance, your name has just helped me sort out the problem. Thank you. Terry
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Guest_Kathy_*
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Jun 2 07, 18:01
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Guest
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Terocon wrote: I want to make this fit into haiku form without changing the look of the words too much, I like those lips.
Ah, you are trying to make a sight poem? I see it now:
Softly like snowfall she kisses, I feel it not cold upon my skin
Terry, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick as to what haiku is. Westerners made mistakes from the beginning. Poor old haiku; it was further dishonoured and degraded by the 'anything in 5/7/5 syllables' school.
haiku is ancient; traditional poetry from Japan. There's an immense amount of information on the web, so if you want to write it properly, some work is needed. Have a look at some of the links here, and follow the lessons in others' posts.
Best wishes, mate.
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Jun 3 07, 00:05
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 18-April 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 421
Real Name: laryalee fraser
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Kathy Earsman
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Hi Terry, one thing that takes time to understand (and it took me a long time!) is that haiku should leave something for the readers to discover on their own. For example, if I understand the gist of what you're telling us, this is something that came to me... her soft kiss upon my skin... snowflakes Does the kiss feel like snowflakes? Does the kiss happen while snow is falling? The reader must try to imagine this...and feel the moment, according to his/her own interpretation. Lary
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Jun 3 07, 12:47
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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QUOTE (Kathy @ Jun 3 07, 00:01 ) Terocon wrote: I want to make this fit into haiku form without changing the look of the words too much, I like those lips.
Ah, you are trying to make a sight poem? I see it now:
Softly like snowfall she kisses, I feel it not cold upon my skin
Terry, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick as to what haiku is. Westerners made mistakes from the beginning. Poor old haiku; it was further dishonoured and degraded by the 'anything in 5/7/5 syllables' school.
haiku is ancient; traditional poetry from Japan. There's an immense amount of information on the web, so if you want to write it properly, some work is needed. Have a look at some of the links here, and follow the lessons in others' posts.
Best wishes, mate. Hi Kathy, OK, so what I have written above is a 17 syllable sight poem, not haiku, I can live with that. Still, I may try once more to conform and honor is origins instead of having to commit hari-kari. I will have a look around here and a few other sites, maybe theres a haiku for dummies out there. I do know it came west in the 15th century so maybe its time to break away from tradition and evolve a little. Although between yours and the other ladies advice I think I'm already getting a feel for it. So thanks to one and all. These bloody haiku I dont really see the point thats if I have one Ps. Am I the lone male voice in the world of mosaic musings wanting to learn haiku. Lol Terry
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Jun 3 07, 13:10
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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Hi Lary, I hear what your saying and I love your edit, I got an image of the kisses melting like snow, and I felt kind of tickled. her soft kiss upon my skin... snowflakes Although I really I liked it, it loses what I was trying to convey. That the kiss was so soft it caused no immediate physical sensation, but at that moment a purely emotional one. I only put the snow in for haiku seasonal requirements. But I feel it did lend something else, like theres something in common between snow and kisses. Thanks for the explaining your concept of haiku, I think I'm getting there. Do you mind if I place your edit above? Under your name of course. Terry
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Jun 3 07, 14:02
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,822
Joined: 3-August 03
From: Florida
Member No.: 10
Real Name: Elizabeth
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori Kanter
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Hello Terry, I am a newbie in the world of Haiku, never really thought much of them myself until I found the ahhh haaa moment in them through these threads. QUOTE (Terocon101 @ Jun 3 07, 14:10 ) Hi Lary, I hear what your saying and I love your edit, I got an image of the kisses melting like snow, and I felt kind of tickled. Yes, with those slight changes your original post now makes a reader 'feel' it - I would even suggest maing 'her soft kiss' to ... 'a soft kiss' QUOTE her soft kiss upon my skin... snowflakes
I only put the snow in for haiku seasonal requirements. But I feel it did lend something else, like theres something in common between snow and kisses. Thanks for the explaining your concept of haiku, I think I'm getting there. Do you mind if I place your edit above? Under your name of course.
Although I really I liked it, it loses what I was trying to convey. That the kiss was so soft it caused no immediate physical sensation, but at that moment a purely emotional one. I tried to put together what you intended in my head, but unfortunately your intention doesn't come across- as the revision stands it makes a wonderful poem. Best Regards, Liz
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Jun 3 07, 15:39
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 18-April 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 421
Real Name: laryalee fraser
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Kathy Earsman
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Terry, it's a delight to discuss this with you... I can tell that you are sincere, and I appreciate your comments. Also, I have a fondness for Irish poets... one dear online friend is Norman Darlington, and here's a link to his site: http://xaiku.com/In case you didn't see it, here's a link from the Haiku, new perspectives thread on Karnak's Crossing...it's written by a Japanese poet, which I feel gives it even greater credibility: http://www.ahapoetry.com/keirule.htmFor me, the most astonishing news was in this quote: There are two major linguistic factors that make the Japanese language more flexible, and thus easier to fit into a rigid form such as 5-7-5. Both of these factors derive from the fact that the grammatical units in Japanese are largely independent, and are relatively free to move about within a sentence. Keiko Imaoka then goes on to illustrate, with his "mother gave it to the kitten" example. He also mentions the fact that Japanese haiku are written on a single line with no spacing. So for those who insist that 5-7-5 is the way to go because it's a Japanese tradition, why use three lines? Now, back to your lovely poem! I was taken by your explanation: That the kiss was so soft it caused no immediate physical sensation, but at that moment a purely emotional one.Now I understand what you are getting at... perhaps winter is not the best season, since it indicates a chill? And this feels very warm! You needn't be afraid of simply saying (or saying simply) what happened... spring breeze the softness of her kiss reaches my heart her soft kiss reaches my heart -- spring breeze Etc. (Feel free to use any of my revisions... in a workshop situation, I always consider that they become yours...they do not belong to me!) Lary
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Jun 4 07, 17:22
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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[quote name='AMETHYST' date='Jun 3 07, 20:02 ' post='97451'] Hello Terry,
I am a newbie in the world of Haiku, never really thought much of them myself until I found the ahhh haaa moment in them through these threads.
Yes, with those slight changes your original post now makes a reader 'feel' it - I would even suggest maing 'her soft kiss' to ... 'a soft kiss'
[quote]her soft kiss upon my skin... snowflakes
Hi Liz,
I too am finding a respect for this form. Where before I thought of them as nice little puzzles now I begin to see their multi-layered subtlety. As well as in trying to write a haiku I have picked up some useful knowledge that I'm sure can be used in other poetry forms. So if I ever tire of saying thank-you to everyone remember this one, thank you.
I was considering , as you have suggested, changing "her soft kiss" to "a soft kiss" its is less selective of the reader. Although since arriving here I have learned that haiku are masculine. I learned that through an excellent link supplied by Lary on comparisons between tanka and haiku, which I cant find now. Murphy and his silly laws.
I will post the revision, with all the accepted suggestions.
Terry
With love and patience, nothing is impossible.
Daisaku Ikeda
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Jun 4 07, 20:00
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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Hi Lary, neighbour's field newborn lambs play in their last spring by Norman Darlington I had a look at Darlington's stuff, I'm not experienced enough to judge in a precise way but I liked them and have bookmarked the page. He only had one spring haiku in that collection(above) and it really jumped out at me. I thought there were rules on how dark haiku could be, no violence etc. Does this one teeter on the edge? For me the edge is a good place. Two or three of his are about sheep or their mortality, I wonder if he isn't a vegetarian from County Wicklow, lol. His writing has a real closeness to nature that I just dream about now since I moved to town, but I still recognize its influence. I read in another link you supplied(and which you mention above) a sitting judge at a haiku competition was commenting about the difference between the Japanese and English language and the difficulties faced by English writers when trying to conform to strict Japanese rules. Rules that were actually created with Japanese in mind. Really interesting questions the whole thing raises about conforming to rules and maybe sacrificing the content. It was acceptable when haiku to me was just a little puzzle and my care was little. Haiku is growing on me, although if I'm honest deep down I sometimes think of haiku as a discipline, an exercise to be performed by the writer and not really an expression. Don't shoot, I am attempting to open my mind up to it. Expressing my opinion will probably land me in hot water one of these days. Anyway, I will be using your edit for the next version, snowflakes of gratitude Just two small changes but I'm not sure(Will there ever again be certainty?) #1. "her soft kiss" to "a soft kiss" Liz pointed out something that was on my mind also, that 'her' was a little exclusive. She suggested "a soft kiss" at first I agreed but have since reconsidered (as I've little to be worrying about at the moment) I was thinking "slow soft kiss" not at all sure though. #2. " snowflakes" I want to make it singular. a soft kiss upon my skin snowflake I know why you think the snowflakes maybe inappropriate in context of the warm affection and I agreed at first, but maybe theres a aha moment there in that little mismatch. Should I explain? Also any kissing should be a spring haiku but for me theres just something about the sensation of that single snowflake on the skin. I wonder has there ever been snow in spring? I'll post, please tell me if it works for you. Terry
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Guest_Kathy_*
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Jun 4 07, 21:24
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Guest
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QUOTE These bloody haiku I dont really see the point thats if I have one
Ps. Am I the lone male voice in the world of mosaic musings wanting to learn haiku. Lol
Terry Hahahaha Terry. You'll be glad to know that, besides Norman, there are LOTS of male haijin (writers of haiku.) Traditionally, haijin are students for life. Haiku is THAT vast... so you are in good company, as a student. Me too. I see you've already taken the time to follow some of the links. I like your attitude, and your spirit. We are all 'dummies,' Terry. Jump in; plenty of room in the boat. Oh BTW it was me who posted the comparisons between haiku and tanka. On Snow's thread, about a blanket of stars.
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Jun 5 07, 11:39
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 376
Joined: 28-May 07
From: Co. Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 440
Real Name: Terry O C
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Ephiny
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Kathy wrote, Hahahaha Terry. You'll be glad to know that, besides Norman, there are LOTS of male haijin (writers of haiku.) Traditionally, haijin are students for life. Haiku is THAT vast... so you are in good company, as a student. Me too. Oh BTW it was me who posted the comparisons between haiku and tanka. On Snow's thread, about a blanket of stars. [/quote]
Hi Kathy,
my apologies for misappropriating the source of your link(tanka/haiku comparisons). Its just with all the information theres a LOT to absorb, and I'm grateful for the opportunities to learn so I try not to miss any. Thanks for that.
Haijin is it? Always good to have a new piece of vocab, I have wandered into a hareem of haijin. hehe.
I look forward to interacting with everybody in the short forum but I've been neglecting another project in another forum called Another Sunday I may require another lifetime to complete it . So Souron's gaze must focus elsewhere for a while.
Talk soon !!
Terry
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Terrylight lights light
--Raymond Rosliep "The imagination imitates. It is the critical spirit that creates."--Oscar WildeMM Award Winner
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Jun 5 07, 12:46
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 18-April 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 421
Real Name: laryalee fraser
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Kathy Earsman
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a soft kiss upon my skin snowflake Terry, this is soooo beautiful! Delicate, yet emotionally packed... I enjoyed your response to Norman's poetry, and look forward to your return here. Your reactions make this all worthwhile! (I also have a busy month ahead, and will be limited in the time I can spend here.) Lary
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Jun 29 07, 19:46
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 19,117
Joined: 2-August 03
From: Southwest New Jersey, USA
Member No.: 6
Real Name: Daniel J Ricketts, Sr.
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori
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A wonderful discussion! Thank you all... and Terry, you ain't the only male wantin' ta learn haiku. I lobbied unsuccessfully for this forum some time back, so I'm very pleased that it's time has finally come. LOVE IT! Your 'final' choice seems to have evolved quite nicely. I think it fits your stated communication goal. kissin' off Lightly, Daniel
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