My view on those 'views', Your comments welcomed Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello all,

Recently, one of our members raised a concern/observation in his thread for critique. It is regarding the number of 'views' noted on the forum index next to each thread. The feeling is that why are so many reading, but not responding?

Here's my view on those views:

I venture to guess there's an 80/20 ratio where 20% are actually views made by people and the remaining 80% are views by automated scripting spiders. Spiders have many other terms (in the computer world that is) - web robots or bots, web crawlers, but the most recognizable link to a crawler is the component software agent that drives them: search engines. These are not people viewing the threads, so the 'views' number must be taken lightly. It's code that seeks out sites, scanning their content (for HOURS) adding keywords to their home pages like google and msn.com for example. The purpose there is so that when you add those key words into a search engine, poof - you'll get links back based on the search criteria you've requested. Even our "most users online" number is skewed by bots crawling the site.

Wiki says: A web crawler is a program or automated script which browses the World Wide Web in a methodical, automated manner. Other less frequently used names for web crawlers are ants, automatic indexers, bots, and worms. This process is called web crawling or spidering. Many sites, in particular search engines, use spidering as a means of providing up-to-date data. Web crawlers are mainly used to create a copy of all the visited pages for later processing by a search engine that will index the downloaded pages to provide fast searches. Crawlers can also be used for automating maintenance tasks on a website, such as checking links or validating HTML code. Also, crawlers can be used to gather specific types of information from Web pages, such as harvesting e-mail addresses (usually for spam).

A web crawler is one type of bot, or software agent. In general, it starts with a list of URLs to visit, called the seeds. As the crawler visits these URLs, it identifies all the hyperlinks in the page and adds them to the list of URLs to visit, called the crawl frontier. URLs from the frontier are recursively visited according to a set of policies.

I should hope others do not come and go without posting solely because of the skewed "views" number? That is very disappointing. It cannot be taken personally as I've mentioned above, it has no bearing on the replies, unless the implied confusion is a root cause of folks NOT posting.

As I've said from the start of MM, it's you, the members, who make (or break) this site, not me, the site owner. I provide the vehicle to have your works seen and workshopped (if that is your intent) in a relaxed, friendly setting; it's up to the members to do the rest. All it takes is a few folks to come in, make those posts and replies and start the change trending upward. How do we enact change, that's the real question? If no one makes any posts when they visit, well then, the whole point of this mute, don't ya think? I saw several people on here last night reading (adding to that views count), but they didn't post anything, just came and went. It also goes with the level of workshopping here, you folks set the bar, and others will follow if it's what they seek. I tend to think of MM as a 'moderate' workshopping venue - some are very thorough and detailed offering strong reviews, others tend to go a bit lighter, so all in all, it's an even, moderate keel IMHO.

I'll get off my sandbox now...

I welcome your thoughts and suggestions everyone.

Have a good day!
~Cleo

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello Linda,

You are very welcome. I'm guessing there may be many folk out there that aren't familiar with some of the more 'techie' aspects of forums boards and so wherever I can, I'll try and educate the membership. I also used to think - 'where are all these people and why aren't they posting a reply?' but I learned early on after starting MM how spiders work. Each search engine takes about 6 months to catch on but once they've got MM in the loop, they're on every day crawling. All the better for searching key words later. I often google my name or a poem title or lines or one of my forms just to see what links come back.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I do not believe editors would spend much time surfing the forum boards. I assume they have their hands full at the office reading manuscript submissions, but one never knows. We've all been in your shoes with regard to feeling that maybe we're not good at offering crits or perhaps think we're not in the same league, but I sincerely say to you an all: You get better with practice, interaction and with time. Part of this is stems from getting to know the other members, their styles, and what makes them tick - it takes a while, and is very cool to see the relationships strengthen. It's very intimidating to offer someone your opinion, especially when you are a newbie. 'What will they think of me? What do I zoom in on? Will they be mad if I'm open and honest?' - these are common questions, at least from my own thoughts. However, the bottom line is that if a member posts a work in one the crit forums, they are saying to the rest of us : 'I want your honest opinion of my work, does it work and what does it say to you?' If that really isn't the intent of the poster, then they should reconsider which forums to post in. It's about setting that bar, knowing it can always be raised over time and settling into your own comfort zone. There's a saying I just added to my signature recently that goes 'Collaboration feeds innovation'. I believe it and think its an iterative process.

You'd be surprised to learn that we seem to flip flop annually on the popularity between Herme's and Seren's. In 2006, Seren's had more posts, this past year, it was Herme's - but overall, they tend to be fairly equal. Give it some time. As for the 2:1 rule, it's generally not an issue, but we'll keep an open mind about it.

Thanks for your post!
~Lori


Hello Don,

Yes, plug plug - can't blame a gal fer tryin! I too, sometimes hit the refresh button, which will add one more to the views number, forgot about that, LOL! AND YES, lookie lookie - I do that too (for every post on )! Sometimes, I'm just not able to offer comments in that moment, so come back again later and cha ching, another view adds to the tally.

Don, you are a prime example of someone who is very detail oriented and thorough if the poem moves you, and even when you have a quick, light reply, you have a way to state things in a very friendly, to the point manner. Your style is unique and I feed off it certainly and as we all say 'take or toss as you wish'. I also feel most accept crit exceptionally well and if they do not for one reason or another, I hope they tell us so we can find that happy medium.

Cheers,
~Lori


Hello Sue,

I'm glad to hear you think like me with regard to those 'views' and the bottom line, LOL! It's all about putting yourself out there in anticipation of what your peers will say. The hardest reviews can sometimes come from the simplest poems. As to the view counts, they serve no useful purpose whatsoever to the reasons of posting our work other than to know we're being crawled, and read. I've actually put in a help dsk ticket to see if there may be a way (with permission of the skin designer) to hide that column, but I'm not certain since it's hard coded into the layout. If I set my mind to looking at the code, I could probably figure it out but like a poem is copyrighted, so are these skins and I have very little wiggle room to play.

I too read LOTS (and when I'm at work all day Mon-Fri I try and peek in) and while I can't comment then, I do come back later and post when I can. This routine of mine definitely adds to that view count all around our board as I pop in and out of each forum utilizing the 'new posts' seach feature. I also visit my own plenty and for the same reasons you do, pondering changes and suggestions.

Thank you very much Sue for your kind words, you've lifted my spirits. I just hope all realize I have an open door when it comes to suggestions about our site.

Regards,
~Lori