Short Story Exercise 5, Come visit here and comment! Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello all!  

I for one am trying to learn HOW to SHOW a scene more than TELL a scene.

Why not help us all out and give an example here of exactly HOW one could do that?

Let's start with a few 'items' to write about and see what responses come to this thread?


There is a door (half-open) leading to ?? (WHERE)??
Choose a character name.

WHAT is this person doing?

Instead of:

She walked slowly to the door, half-opened, with light flickering beyond...

HOW would you describe this scene by SHOW rather than TELL?

Cheers!
~Cleo  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori,

What distinction are you making here? I'm not sure that I understand. Do you mean using the first person - no narrator?

Cheers, James

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Lori,

What distinction are you making here? I'm not sure that I understand. Do you mean using the first person - no narrator?

Cheers, James

Hi James.

Yes - first person....

I've been told that I am a story 'teller' more than 'showing a scene. What does that mean?

Lori

[Guest_Jox_*]

Lori,

Hi. Thanks.

Sorry, I've no idea what they mean - you'll have to ask them, I'm afraid. It's not an expression I've heard before.

All I might add (not in relation to you, just generally) is that a frequent crit of writers is that they spent too long narrating what is happening, rather than letting the characters drive the action. For example, I could write a piece about a swimmer training for the Olympics. I could describe their training regime, their habits etc. On the other hand, I could use dialogue - and/or thought process - to go through it.

Off the top of my keyboard...

(I’ve written this straight, only spell-checked. Even left the cliches in and pointed them out - so the next person I complain about cliches to knows I do it, too and have to edit them out.

Narrator only:

Jenny was working hard that day. She had, as usual, been up since five am - quick dash via the bathroom to her Father's car to take her to the training pool. There was just a duty manager in attendance; the place seemed eerily quiet. She went to change, whilst her long-suffering (sorry, cliche) Father, went to the first floor to find a vending machine for a well-deserved (cliche2) cuppa.

OR

"Jenny are you ready, yet?" Shouted her Father as he went through the front door to start the car.

Jenny joined him as he was starting the engine. "What happened, girl? Thought you'd never be here."

"Sorry, Dad, had to pop to the loo."

They drove along quiet roads, arriving at the pool ten minutes later. As they approached the glass doors, the Duty Manager appeared to unlock them. "Good Morning, you two."

"Is it," Dad asked.

Jenny flashed the manager a smile (big cliche). He was quite good looking - in a no-hope sort of way. But he was always there to open-up. He deserved some acknowledgement.

"OK, lass I'm off for a cup of tea from one of those bloody vending machines. See you later." He Father almost always said a similar thing. But one day, he'd decide to be a rebel and have a coffee instead.

As Jenny went to change, she couldn't help thinking how eerily quiet it always is.


----------------------------------------

I actually don’t mind narrator only - use it myself quite a lot. But the mixed version does have more life. The first person only is good in some ways but can be limiting. I seem only able to write monologues in first person.

Does that make sense, Lori?

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Lori and James,

When I have heard the phrase 'show, don't tell' it often seems to be in a context where I've told my reader something like:

Andrew was very angry

It might take a few more words but it is worth it to show that Andrew is angry:

"And why should I?" Andrew shouted, slamming the car door, "It means nothing to me!"

Or better still:
"And why should I?" Andrew slammed the car door, "It means nothing to me!"

Emotions are often better shown, not told; both actions and dialogue can aid this. I quite often try to use the surroundings (weather, state of a building etc) to add to that emotional atmosphere.

As a different example; in my first (Sci-Fi) novel I had a paragraph explaining what had happened to planet Earth in the 2,000 years since now; it was basically 'backstory' and I was sensibly advised to remove it - it was a turgid lump of information that added nothing to the plot at that point. Any unnecessary information or backstory is likely to be too much telling - even in dialogue (as exposition); it slows the action and is likely to break the spell for the reader.

Does that help any ideas? Am I on target?

Or am I in some distant universe (again) ...  

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Ta, Fran,

Yes, that makes sense and is good advice, too. Thank you.

I have actually read that in books but not heard the phrase per se. Mind you, the books took far longer to say what you just have so well and so quickly... I wonder if they were padding?

As an aside, would you care to expand a little on the lump you excised... did you re-include it elsewhere in another form or was it dispensable?

Also, you mentioned the weather. I'm personaly allergic to pathetic fallacy - the sun smiled; the clouds grew angry etc. But I don't think you mean that?? Can you offer some examples, please?

Cheers, James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Ahhhhhh OK Fran!  :sun:  :sun:  :sun:

So it's more in the 'action' of the story it seems? What people do, how they react to situations?

I wrote this in the 'joint story exercise' in Loch Ness about a haunted house - is this going in the right direction?

"What is going on in here?" Billy stomped. "Jimmy! Enough already! Close that door and stop clowing around! Why is it so cold in here anyway?" Pulling over the hood of his sweatshirt jacket, Billy once again began to stare at the chandelier above him. One light, then two, then three dimmed, blinked and then went out. Billy only stared in wonderment, waiting to see what would happen next.

In the last line for example - how would ne better describe Billy's reaction to the cold room and chandelier?

Thanks for helping - it is working for me a bit and I would love to see more feedback is this tile too...

Cheers!
Cleo  :pharoah:

[Charon]

This is very interesting.  I for one abhor dialogue, because I have such a difficult time creating it, without it seeming forced.  Unlike a Harlequin novel.  I really like the posts above, very intriguing.  

I also try to stay towards one person short stories, then I don't have to worry about dialogue.

Butch

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Butch,

Good point - but when reading others' prose, do you like dialogue?

Cheers, james.

[Morgan le Fay]

Hi Lori!

My short answer would be, " it's all in the details my dear".  :)  I think it's all about setting the scene.  Bringing the reader in so they can taste and smell and feel.  Where they can hear the birds sing, so to speak.  I've taken the liberty to copy and re-post " A Summer Dawn." to use as an example.  There are problems with it but I think it will work for an example of what I mean.

A Summer Dawn

As I sit on my front porch, steaming coffee in hand, slippers on cold feet and sand in my eyes, dawn comes to the velvet meadow.  Bringing morning to a sleepy field, cloaked with a peaceful dampness that clings with loveliness and soft tranquility.

( here I'm trying to set the scene.  Really trying to give the reader the feel of the early morning, and letting them see what I see. Through gritty eyes and all.  I want them to smell the coffee.)

Birds reign, as colorful little gods.  With choirs of wings faintly singing delicious sounds that ring on the breeze.  Teasing the little pond and all of her inhabitants awake.

( again, I want the reader to be able to hear the birds and see the life of a new day starting in the countryside and hopefully giving the feeling of surprise and delight.  I'm trying to make them feel that they are the ones witnessing the beginning of the day.)

I close my eyes and inhale the jasmine warming in the newborn sun, and give thanks for witnessing the birth of a lazy summer day.

( In the last stanza, I want the reader to feel the sun and smell the flowers, and give a sense of the peacefull feeling of waking up in a much loved place.)

Did I succeed?  I hope so.  But only the reader can tell me. :)

Hope this is what you were looking for.

Love and stuff,
Chris  

PS.  I just read Fran's response, and it's so much better!  But I'll leave mine anyway.

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hello, what an interesting discussion you have here now, Lori.

Gosh, Chris, you are way too kind.  :blush21:  I think your reply illustrates the idea very well - 'details': I must remember that description of how to describe a good 'showing' of emotion.

I think that also demonstrates that the 'show don't tell' effect can be acheived without using dialogue. I love dialogue, but Butch doesn't; 'showing' can work without dialogue, too.

James raised a couple of questions from my first reply:

>>As an aside, would you care to expand a little on the lump [of back story] you excised... did you re-include it elsewhere in another form or was it dispensable?<<

Some of the ideas may appear, but they'll be distributed in dialogue or slipped into other descriptions; not one big indigestible lump of information.

>>Also, you mentioned the weather [enhancing mood evocation]. I'm personally allergic to pathetic fallacy - the sun smiled; the clouds grew angry etc. But I don't think you mean that?? Can you offer some examples, please?<<

Okay ... I'll try.

I have 2 stories in MM Stonehenge, so I'll use them to illustrate.

In 'Rebellion' I use the landscape - volcanic, inhospitable - to colour the narator's feelings as s/he is swept into geurilla warfare. The volcano itself only becomes visible - a pulsing glow against the night sky - when the bullets start flying; so the environment sets a mood and works with the pacing of the story.

I have to admit I didn't set out to do that; I had a picture in my head and worked on that. But that is how it came out, and I think at that stage it was instinctive luck.

In 'Monkey' (much more recent) I was far more deliberate with structure. The narator's feelings about her daughter's cuddly toy change from disgust to complicity as her own life moves on from her divorce.

Rain squalls spit chill November misery across the vast car park outside the shopping centre. Jess is taking forever getting her bag out of the car while I shiver impatiently.

‘Don’ wanna go with Daddy,’ she whines, ‘Wanna go home.’

I slam the boot, tight-lipped; if she repeats that in front of Paul he’ll blame me. She has been grumpy since I started packing her things last night. Monkey is in her bag, but even his pink presence hasn’t cheered her.

A flurry of autumn leaves, once gold, now brown, swirl into a greasy puddle and are caught. ‘He took you to the fair last time, remember?’

‘Wanna go home.’

So the rain and the leaves both echo the miserable, uncomfortable mood of the narator. (Does squalls spit chill November misery come dangerously close to pathetic fallacy, James? Or do I get allowed to use it because it is the narator's first person POV?)

Even the shopping centre matches her mood; it is posh, but:

... we wind our way between the self-absorbed shoppers, teenagers brashly begging for attention, harassed mothers on mobiles and bored husbands pushing buggies, bellies hanging over cheap jeans.

If she was in a happy mood I could have enthused about the colourful displays and happy children. Or something.

Cleo, you have a lovely extract from your story; it looks like you are 'showing' excellently using dialogue and actions. I suppose the last line is slightly less 'show'

Billy only stared in wonderment, waiting to see what would happen next.

I have to confess I haven't been to read the whole story yet ... so any suggestion wpild be in context only of this snippet.

And I'm not sure if I can think of anything right now, lol. I rather like that whole para as is.  :oops:

Sorry this is such a long reply - hope it makes sense.
Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran,

Thank you very much for that. I have read both your stories - more than once and I see what you mean noe; should have remembered... then again, I remmeber little, I'm afraid.

>>(Does squalls spit chill November misery come dangerously close to pathetic fallacy, James? Or do I get allowed to use it because it is the narator's first person POV?)

I'll have to check the context. If the misery means the people are miserable then, no it is not pathetic fallacy. If you are saying that the squalls, themselves are miserable (which I think you are not) then that would be pathetic fallacy. The problem with pf is that it attributes human emotions to inanimate things (though clouds are animated!). As far as we know, clouds do not have emotions so it is cheating. However, what you are doing is using the elements to set "mood music" - that seems to denegrate it, sorry (not intended) but hope it makes sense. That is a clever technique and I now see, fits with Lori's question.

Finally, Fran...

>>Sorry this is such a long reply

My dear lass, no delighted! I even had Alan waffling last night. Keep going and we'll talk all the legs off the proverbial donkey at this rate (you two take a front leg each and I'll tackle both hind legs). Mind you... poor donkey! The clouds will shed tears of sorrow and the sun will cease his smile if that happens.

James.

[Charon]

What great conversation.

I have looked back upon my favorite writers and have discovered they offer a variety, each his or her own approach.  I despised the opening of M.M.Kaye's Passage to India, but loved the book.  She bogged me down with so much detail, that I couldn't wait for dialogue to begin to give life to the story.

Stephen Donaldson has the same tendency.  

If you have ever read the collobaration of Donaldson and King called the Talisman, compare the two authors and how they use dialogue.  How each author paints the scene and draws you into the story.

I also had a terrible time trying to read James Joyce's Ulysses.  The first chapter seemed so bogged down in detail I could never get past it.  Finally I forced myself, after owning the book for several years, and loved the book.

I have been told I paint pictures with my words, I don't provide a lot of detail, I let the reader fill in the blanks.  To me, dialogue seems to do that, a lot. Funny that I should hate dialogue.

Giving human qualities to nature reminds of the a movie called "The Owl and the Pussycat."  In that movie, Barbara Streisand is somewhat a lady of leisure.  George Segal plays a writer.  In the movie there is a lengthy debate about a sentence - "the sun spit morning."  Very humorous dialgoue regarding this phrase and what it was attempting to do.  Thirty years later I still remember that line and the imagery.  Bad line, I don't know, but I remember it.

Butch

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello everyone!  

YES - this certainly IS a good topic! We should continue this thread as a 'workshop' so we can all gain knowledge from each other - how cool!    

Chris & Fran - lovely additions of how to show the environs in your story!

Butch - I think you do a fine job with dialogue!

Lindi and I talked about this yesterday at work (before all these replies were made), and Lindi describes it to me as being able to leave a bit to the readers imagination in SHOWING. Yes - you can describe a scene, but leave some details to their imagination too.

In my original sentence above:
She walked slowly to the door, half-opened, with light flickering beyond...

This is not a dialogue, however, the reader could ask - why is the door half-opened, what is the light flickering beyond etc...

The dialogue next may or may not answer these questions:

Instead of writing the above, how about:

"What is that reddish-glow just beyond the door?" Linda asked herself. Ajar, the door creaked as she walked closer towards it.

I admire the writings of Dan Brown, Stephen King and Tom Clancy as they all seem to be able to utilize BOTH telling and showing so effectively.

How would YOU write the above (and feel free to add to this snippet)?

Cheers!
Cleo  

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Hi, Lori

I think the essence of "show don't tell" is to reveal information through action, which includes narration and dialogue. Dialogue can be used to tell as well as show, so dialogue per se isn't necessarily showing.

The car park scene in 'Monkey' is memorable to me (as I mentioned to Fran a while ago) for the reasons she describes. It's a vivid way of getting the narrator's feelings across with being told by the author what they are directly.

In the example you give:

She walked slowly to the door, half-opened, with light flickering beyond...

you are showing [walking to the door] and telling [slowly], but if you wanted to convey her feelings, you would need to show more and tell less. For example, this would be telling:

She walked tremulously to the half-opened door, fearful of the light flickering beyond...

because her emotions are being described, and this would be showing:

She crept towards the half-opened door, heart racing, one hand placed over her mouth to suppress an involuntary scream, drawn by the light flickering beyond. Pausing to glance over her shoulder, she inched forward again...

Her actions as she approaches the door are what we might expect a fearful person to do.

Showing also engages the reader much better than telling.

I hope that is helpful.

Perry

[Guest_Jox_*]

Butch - that was interesting - thanks very much.

Perry - further explanation of the phrase appreciated. I've really never heard of it - though I know the concepts to which you refer.

Lori - good response; good topic.

James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello Perry.  :tigger:

Thank you so much for your reply!

She crept towards the half-opened door, heart racing, one hand placed over her mouth to suppress an involuntary scream, drawn by the light flickering beyond. Pausing to glance over her shoulder, she inched forward again...
Her actions as she approaches the door are what we might expect a fearful person to do.

Showing also engages the reader much better than telling.

Now I can see the meaning more clearly now. This is of great help!  :pharoah2

I shall return again with a different take on that line....

Cheers.
Lori  :cali:

[Guest_Cailean_*]

IMO, Butch/Charon has nailed it. It's overdetailing that robs impact in the "show, don't tell" argument.

I remember an excellent example I always call to mind when I think about such things, in writing and role-play.

Twinned example:

A man, wearing Egyptian clothing and carrying a staff topped with an ankh stepped out and ordered John to halt.

(This is clearly a "telling" phrase. Technically, there's nothing wrong with it, but it has the impact of wet cardboard.)

"Halt!"

(then description)

This works better as a role-play example, but it does relate to what Butch mentioned. The less you say, the more your audience has to come up with themselves. Therefore, going back to that old sales maxim:

Tell me and I'll forget.
Show me and I may remember.
Involve me and I will understand.

I think the best way to analyse such things is to read some of the works mentioned here and take notes of when you are being "told" and identify it within one's own work. I've been doing that a lot lately with some mainstream books I've been reading. The trick, of course, is to see it within your own work, but as you read, you can say ... I've done that, and mebbe I shouldn't.

So, in closing, I think to give people the bare bones that is required, relating to detail, makes a piece more connective to the reader. Sometimes it's a fine line between sharp and completely unintelligible (you can go too far and leave gaping holes in the flow and text) but as you approach less and less detail, you gain impact.

Just my two cents, as it were, as it ended up being an affirmation of Butch/Charon's comments, haha :) I came here intending to write as he did, but I'm seeing some good stuff otherwise here too :)

Cailean.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks so much Cailean!

You have offered to me this very example recently and I'm glad you have replied here too.

I think the best way to analyse such things is to read some of the works mentioned here and take notes of when you are being "told" and identify it within one's own work. I've been doing that a lot lately with some mainstream books I've been reading. The trick, of course, is to see it within your own work, but as you read, you can say ... I've done that, and mebbe I shouldn't.

I think that is a great idea! There is a passage in my own short story 'A Child's Wish' that JLY just mentioned. It is written currently like this:

As father and daughter walked past the old man, they put some change in his cup.

John's critique:
"At the very beginning, the following line was kind of flat:
As father and daughter walked past the old man, they put some change in his cup.
I thought you could have done more with this. What kind of cup did the man have? What sound did the coins make when they were dropped in the cup? Were the father and daughter holding hands?  How did they look at the old man?"

I for one am planning to go back and revise that and look for other passages where more 'show' might fine tune things...


~Cleo

[Charon]

She walked slowly to the door, half-opened, with light flickering beyond...

Intriguing sentence, I on the other hand might have written it as such (for what it is worth)

“Why am I here?” The question silently roamed within her delicate head as she crept forewards.  Reaching for the handle of the partially opened door, a slight breeze whisks through the opening, caressing her hand, causing the hair on the back of her head to ask the same.  The flickering light just beyond initiated the shadows to change shapes, a quick hand to her mouth stifled a scream when her eyes perceived one of shades slither across the crusted floor and touch her sliding foot.  

What I have tried to do here is a couple of things:

Pull the reader along with the heroine.  

The question prompts the reader to answer for her.

Using the word delicate I have permitted the reader to play a bit with the woman, her size, looks, etc.  I haven't told them a thing, but yet they have begun to perceive what she looks like.

Using the crusted floor, I now have given the reader an opportunity to paint the room, the building, etc.  I don't have to mention cobwebs or dirt and dust, they will fill it in.

Preventing the scream and the hair standing up on the back of her head, have set the mood, I hope - scary.

Did I do good?  



Charon

[Guest_Toumai_*]

I'll let you know if it was scary once I dare come out from hiding, Charon. Thanks.
Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Wow! Butch... it's in the bag!

I enjoyed that, Butch - good writing. However, is it not again "telling" as opposed to "showing"? It is a genuine question - I'm still not sure I'm at all comfortable with that phrase. In fact, I'm not.

What you have written is fine. But if a whole novel were like that - all description - I think we'd yearn for spoken-interchange to move the plot and characterisation on. ?

Cheers, James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

In my own example:
As father and daughter walked past the old man, they put some change in his cup., I went back and made a modification this morning as follows:

Boisterously, father and daughter crossed the cobblestones hand in hand, Hildi skipping to a stop at the old man’s corner. “One clunk, two clunks, three clucks.” Hildi affirmed as the tin cup jingled to life.

A tear streamed down the old man’s face as he bent over the chalice of hope. Inching outward as he swallowed, he rubbed the sides of his frozen throat, asserting his vocal cords but not until the Burroughs had passed on. “Tha…, Than…, Thank you my children!” He finally dispensed.

Is this more SHOWING than telling?

Cheers!
~Cleo  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori et al,

I think there is such a thing as over-embellishment. If writing is too rich it drains one. I prefer character development and, wherever possible, action, to be advanced by dialogue rather than continued ultra-rich description.

I think my dislike of too much decorative poetry and description is why I'm no fan of Victorian novels (in general) nor of the famous romantic poets of two hundred years ago. But, of course, that is just a personal thing.

Regards, James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Hi, Lori

Your first example was already showing. You were showing that the father and his daughter were compassionate people. If you'd written that they were compassionate, you would have told us.

I'm 100% with James on the description aspect. You need just enough description to keep the reader informed on what he couldn't otherwise know. Description that doesn't aid the story is a waste of words and impedes the reader's enjoyment.

Readers invest a fair bit of imagination in a story and you can trust them to join the dots for themselves.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

I tend to get bogged down in details..

Perhaps the second para is not required then?

I think this exercise is something that I personally am going to need alot of help with, !

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

I suppose I should read the story first before I offer any suggestions, but out of context your original line was fine. Everything depends on what you want to convey with the scene.

I'll take a look at your story later on and if I can help I'll give you my two cents worth.

Perry  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori,

My approach is to say the least I can to advance the character and the plot. To pare-down. That does not mean the writing is necessarily sparse... because it may take quite a lot to do those two things. However, too much description (or too many names) tend to confuse this poor reader.

Write what you will but on editing try to ask (of each sentence - each word, indeed) what does this contribute to our understanding? As Perry says, the readers can join the dots. However, I would add that too much writing means they can't see which dots to join.

All the best, James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

I've read through your story and concluded that the passage in question serves two purposes. One is to underscore a connection (established in the second and third paragraphs) between the old man and Hildi; the other is to show that she is a generous girl. The latter purpose is the main one. On that basis, I would scrub your revision and revert to the previous prose, but modified as follows:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused to drop some change into his cup. "Merry Christmas."

The old man looked up and returned her greeting. "Merry Christmas, my angel, and thank you once again."

That's sufficient for the purpose. We're showing that she's generous and he admires her, and that's all we need to know about their relationship at this point in the story. There's nothing to be gained in knowing what the cup is made of or the sound the coins make when they drop in -- the reader can make this connection without difficulty. That's not to say you shouldn't use sound (or smell or touch) if it serves a dramatic purpose -- it's just not necessary if it's simply an embellishment.

I hope that helps.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks so very much James and Perry!

I am new to writing short stories (and poetry only since late 2002) so I really do wish to learn the tips along the way to making stories memorable and just the right message/length/theme/plot etc....

I will make that revision next time in the thread....

Cheers!
Cleo  :pharoah:

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi everyone,

I think I agree with Perry that showing her dropping coins in the cup is indeed showing. How much to show is the tricky bit.

Most new writers 'overwrite'. I know I'm still learning to pare it down - as James puts it - and use the minimum information possible to allow the READER to make the picture. So the reader may end up with a different image that that in the writer's head, but so long as it fits the plot that is fine - maybe better, because it then becomes THEIR story to some extent.

I like action stories, but other people like sagas. I'm not a big fan of 'old' stories because they do tend to get bogged down in florid detailed descriptions (and I think I'll wait until I'm shipwrecked on a desert island to tackle Proust). I tried reading Annie Proulx recently and found  her style too contrived and detailed for my liking - but I was reading her as a writer; very critically. Five years ago I would have allowed her to immerse me in her clever phrasing.

Steven King says he always assumes he'll cut any story by 10 or 20% as he revises it ("On Writing" - a useful read even if you don't like his stories).

Sorry, am I wandering too far off-topic with this, Lori?
Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi all,

Actually, that reminds me that, since I have been learning poetry I have used far more sparse language (in general) than I would before. (Everyone would be grateful if I carried than on to my chats, too). So crits on MM poetry have actually helped me a great deal with trying not to overwrite prose. Prose, of course, cannot be as minimalist as poetry but trying to "have a go" at poetry and being critted is an invaluable lesson for this prose writer, anyway.

James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

Fran said "I think I agree with Perry that showing her dropping coins in the cup is indeed showing. How much to show is the tricky bit." Her point is a good one, because it's key to the 'show, don't tell' approach.

For example, if you wanted to convey the image of an unsuccessful beggar, you could write:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused to give him some change. The coins clattered before settling in the bottom of the cup. "Merry Christmas."

On the other hand, a successful beggar could be shown this way:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused long enough to stoop and carefully add some coins to the collection in the cup. "Merry Christmas."

On yet another hand (I have three hands), if the success or otherwise of the beggar's efforts are irrelevant to the story, then it's not necessary to draw attention to it.

Perry

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Overwriting is an obvious giveaway of an amateur writer and it invariably shows in the first few paragraphs. I think it's even more important not to overwrite short stories, as this form is meant to be concise. Not as concise as poetry, of course, but certainly more so than novels.

Perry

[Charon]

Ah, I like the conversation regarding King and his works.  I have every book, first edition that King ever produced.  However, one problem I have with this great writer, is that he writes wonderful novels, and then rushes to a finish.  His endings are horrid.

Does anyone else agree?  

Tommyknockers is a perfect example, what is that ending all about.  

I would guess the best example of telling would be a fairy tale, yes?

Very little development occurs, hardly any descriptions - can anyone tell me what the town looks like in Cinderella or even the castle?

Bang you are in the story and bang you are out.

Charon

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Hi, Charon

Cinderella is a good example of telling a tale simply and economically. As with most fairy tales, it's primarily a 'tell, not show' type of story and is often read aloud.

In the original written version by Perrault, the wicked sisters end up remorseful and being forgiven by Cinderella, so that constitutes some kind of development, albeit simple.

The Grimms' version is interesting in that the sisters cut off their heels and toes to fit their feet into the shoe, thus 'showing' their vanity.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

Let's try another:

How would continue to write this:

Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke.....

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

It's a lovely phrase, Lori, but what is it you want to say? Or what's the problem you're trying to solve?

Perry

[Guest_Cailean_*]

Reading through here again ... Charon has it pegged that often the most concise story with impact is a fairy story. Writing for children is extraordinarily difficult - they ask questions and they don't "assume" as much as adults do. They are "tabula rasa" and can get their wonderful little minds in the metaphorical jam jar. Therefore, fairy tales have to be tight and have maximum impact.

With what Perrorist and Toumai said, I agree - overwriting is bad. I think, it's best to "pare down" as Perrorist suggested and just look at every sentence, ask yourself brutally "Do I really need this sentence? What does it do for the story? Does it add to the story, and what does it add?" If you can't find answers to these questions, axe the sentence.

Remember, less detail - more impact, at the possible cost of less comprehension :)

Cailean.

[Cleo_Serapis]

It's a lovely phrase, Lori, but what is it you want to say? Or what's the problem you're trying to solve?

Perry

Hi Perry!

It's just an exercise for us....

Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke.....

How would you continue this thought?

Lori

[Guest_Jox_*]

Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke. "Let me out of here, you bounder, I want to become a reflection of reality."

(microstory in a sentence)

James.

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Lori,

I am a little confused here, wondering what kind of excercise you might mean.

To write a story opening with that line?
Well, I don't think I could: traditonal fantasy is not my scene.

To make it show not tell?
There is so little there I don't think we have enough to work on.

Fran

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi.

No - I just wanted you to use your imagination and continue the story with that line - it doesn't have to be that starting line, so you can do whatever comes to mind with it....

:)

[Cleo_Serapis]

Arese waded to a stop in the crystalline waters. Moonlight lent itself to an aura of dreams. Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke. "Why do you look upon this life with such misery?" the reflection asked.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori - another microstory - and pathos too! Good stuff.

James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Here's a great article on Show v. Tell...


Show, Don't (Just) Tell by by Dennis G. Jerz

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Lori

I've just been reading through this fascinating discussion.  I have never attempted to write a story, but I read a lot and I hate it when authors get bogged down with detail and description.  It is boring, it slows  the plot too much and it leaves nothing to the imagination.  I much prefer books where I can feel what the character is feeling and get emotionally involved in the story.  I like to create my own pictures in my head and make my own interpretations.  If I am given too much detail, that is taken away from me.

One of the reasons why I cannot read Charles Dickens yet love the films is because there is far too much description and detail and I get bored.  As for James Joyce - I think I only managed the first few pages before giving up.

Well, I've rambled on enough and the washing up is waiting.

Nina

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Lori,

Many thanks for the links - I've read the poetry one, too (but didn't quite follow all of that, lol).

Hi Nina,

How about a trying a story sometime? Maybe a micro story? It's an entirely different thing from poetry in some ways, but fun.

Best wishes,

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Nina,

Fran's idea is great - it's the ideal way for a poetry writer to sample prose writing. It can be quicker than writing a poem...

If you do try - good luck.

James.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran and James

Thanks for the encouragement.  I'll give it some thought.  I'm not sure that I will find it quicker than writing a poem though.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina,

May I suggest that you take a look here...

http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/cgi-bin....ry29802

James.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

Thanks for the link.  I think I get what Lori is saying.  The bit that made the most sense was what you said about disliking rules.  I agree, rules restrict creativity too much.  I enjoyed your microstories

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Thank you Nina.

Much appreciated.

James.