Good morning Mary - I think you are on to something with this version. The sense of comfort and security gifted by the returning seasons, adds to this poem the emotional warmth, lacking in the first version.
I understand that this is, as you say, a rough opening draft - and I am sure that you will straighten out the uneven meter - It is, of course, very possible that it is my English accented voice that puts a different emphasis on the rhythm of your verses



Tomorrow is never certain. 3

It's always been that way, 3
but one thing that I know, 3

[is] Autumn came today. 3

[Saw] a squirrel buries [an] acorns. 4
That's how it's supposed to be, 4
[and] a nippy wind is blowing 4
limbs of the water oak tree. 5

[As] regular as the sunset 4
[and as] faithful as rising tide 4
my old friend Autumn 4
has come to abide. 3


I wonder if you could be persuaded to drop the word 'is' from V1 L4? The statement, 'Autumn came today!' might have more impact than, ' is Autumn came today.'
There is a small grammatical error in:
'and a nippy wind is blowing limbs of the water oak tree. ' The wind might blow raspberries, or even a trumpet - but not, I think, the limbs of a tree. It could blow through, or around the limbs of a tree though.
There are a few other, bracketed, words which might be dropped to change, or improve the meter.
Leo

Ah yes Peggy!
I concur with Leo, your feelings come through from the start. Polishing the lumps and bumps is relatively easy from here.

I can see the full set of four emerging, each with it's own unique flavor. Warming glows and trepidations.

Bravo, girl, you're on track.

Better.

S2/L2, would you consider "meant to be" for meter's sake?

Mary (that's me, Leo -- she's Peggy)

Hi Peggy -

I like where you're going with this. The title, Faithful Autumn, sets the poem up really well. Immediately I relaxed in my chair, preparing to visit with a very dear old friend. You've gone on to weave that same warmth throughout the poem. You could certainly use bits and pieces from your original poem and tweak them just a bit to fall in line with this new, fuller, dimension. I look forward to developments.

Dear Peggy,

I am going to look at metre for now since you are already so close, giving my thoughts as I work so you can adjust what you want and keep the rhythm.

I find that the rhythm used initially is the usually best. It is the music heard when the first lines flowed from your pen. Due to images, word-strings and new ideas rushing through our minds as we write, this rhythm often deviates and sometimes goes completely haywire after a few strophes.

You mentioned a ballad metre,
(Quick reference; ballad stanza: - a8 b6 c8 b6; alternating tetra- and trimesters)

Which means; 8 syllables followed by 6 syllables couplets.
Traditionally an iambic foot is used which rising (masculine) metre, quite firm and in a major key.

We are however permitted to vary quite considerably from this however to modify the voice, mood and tempo of the piece. When I say “permitted” I mean of course from a form perspective in that if we deviate too far it would no longer be classed a ballad.

I am going to analyze your first stanza because I believe that is the rhythm you want for this piece.
S1 immediately establishes a falling (feminine) metre in L1 followed by rising
Metre in L2. This is because the last foot is trochaic. Unstressed last syllable.

This creates a beautifully balanced combination of moods ideally suited to your poem.
Lets look at the syllable count now; 8, 6, 6, 6
Oops, L3 is short! Not only that, L1 is sticking badly.


Tomorr/ow is ne/ver cert/ain

It wants to read as;
“ Tomorr/ow’s nev/er cert/ain” but then we are short one syllable. This is fine if we follow the pattern throughout. We may find that discarded syllable frustrating later on as the more syllables we allow ourselves, the more we can express.
Lets go to L3 now where there are two syllables lacking.

“but one /thing that /I know”

Here, in order for it to match L1, we need to add an unstressed syllable at the end.

“But one /thing I /am sure/ of” would do very nicely thank you.

So, putting it together;

“Tomorrow’s never certain, 7
it's always been that way, 6
but one thing I am sure of 7
is Autumn came today. “ 6

Some may take issue with the literal statement, saying tomorrow is in fact certain but what happens tomorrow is changeable, yet the cadence of this strophe is unarguably beautiful.

Note the delay given by the comma in L2 is picked up subconsciously in L3.

Going to the second Strophe;

Saw a squirrel bury an acorn. 9
That's how it's supposed to be, 7
and a nippy wind is blowing 8
limbs of the water oak tree. 7

Oh dear, look at those leading stresses in L1 and L4! Now you see why those extra syllable may have been a good idea in S1

Perhaps re-arraigning a little;

“A nippy wind is blowing 7
the limbs of our oak tree 6
and squirrels bury acorns; 7
that's how the fall should be.” 6 or "that's how its meant to be"

I had to trim and edit firmly to correct the metre and perhaps we lost a little on the way. This is where you should ask yourself; “Is the metre suitable to continue with spartan imagery or would I prefer the richness offered by slightly longer lines?”
Also, “Am I getting the best value from the words chosen, is each essential to conserve the integrity of the poem?”

“The water oak tree “verses “our oak tree”

The first is specific in 5 syllables and the second is warmer in 3 syllables.
With the mood of this poem, I’d go for the second choice.

Using “fall” has exactly the same meaning but we lose a syllable for free.

Now S3.

“As regular as the sunset 8
and as faithful as rising tide 8
my old friend Autumn 5
has come to abide.” 5

Staying within the established metre, may I suggest;

“Embracing as the sunsets, 7
predictable as tide; 6
my good old friend the Autumn 7
is with us to abide.” 6 or "has come back to abide"

I loved the sunset image as it matches the colours of autumn but really, are sunsets all that regular in the fall? Tides are defiantly not faithful yet they are very predictable. Rising or falling is irrelevant but could be used as a filler if required.

So there you are, I hope it helped. Actually, the changes were all very small and subtle.

Hugz ,Wally

Dear folks,

I've added a very tentative final stanza and amended and cut out some too. I'm not sure I like the last stanza despite having written four or five last stanzas. I'm seriously considering having a three stanza poem. I'm also wondering if I should have cut so much too.

Once again, I've very grateful for all of you poets' time and careful attention!!!

Grateful Peggy

Children's Verse Forum? Yeah!

I would like to second Wally's suggestion about a forum for verses and even nursery rhymes intended for children. That's a great idea!
I think the grannies and granddads amongst us, especially those with a picaresque turn of mind, would enjoy trying out our pens on children's verse.
It seems that, inadvertently, Peggy has received an unmerited level of criticism because she posted her children's poem into the critical forum for poems intended to be read by, 'grown-ups' - without warning us about its intended audience. Had there been a section specifically for poems written with children in mind, Peggy would have found a 'safe harbour' for her poem.
How about a X10 comp for children's verse soon, Cleo?

Leo

Hello,

I certainly don't mind adding a forum specifically for children's poems, as this is what you seek. I'll work on that for you all.

Stay tuned!
~Cleo

Hi Wally,

A thunderous round of applause for a fine discourse on the meter!!!!!! I've printed it out and plan to study it carefully today!!! I hope to be able to apply some of the principles and suggestions very, very soon.

With a great big hug!!!

Appreciative Peggy

Peggy,
I would put that last verse in position of S3, remove the reference to Autumn as it will then appear in the first and last verses nice and balanced. (Loved that old S3 as a finisher)
May I suggest you try "changing seasons bring" in place of that.

Thus;

Tomorrow’s never certain,
it's always been that way,
but one thing I am sure of
is Autumn came today.

A nippy wind is blowing
the limbs of our oak tree
and squirrels bury acorns;
that's how the fall should be.

All things are set in order,
wild geese are on the wing;
There's comfort and assurance
that changing seasons bring.

Embracing as the sunset,
predictable as tide;
my good old friend the Autumn
has come back to abide.

Just one last thing Peggy;

S4, L3 - Count the syllables?

Actually, I think this turned out quite stunning in the end, all the imagery is gentle, harmonious and it makes me want to sit back with a glass of cherry and watch the sunset. I can't wait to see what the next season brings!

Hi Wally,

That's the line that bothers me too. It just doesn't flow right to me. Sounds like there are too many accented syllable in a row, and that makes me trip up in reading. I'd like to change it to the read, "My faithful friend Autumn". I know this new line has a drawback to it, but it still flows better to me. The drawbacks: (It is a variation on the poem's title.
Peggy

Hi Peggy -

The end result is stunning! Congrats!

Peggy, I have been watching this from the first, as I was the first to comment. I have just finished reading your last revision and it is what I would have loved to seen at first. It is fresh but still brings fond memories of autum, it has become so much better and different that it is like reading a different poem. Congratulations on bringing this on with all the great help i have seen everyone give. I wish I had been able to help, but I have not been doing so well this past week. I am really proud you stuck to your convictions and kept pushing on this. Next time I see a poem such as this one was I will try that much harder to see what might lie hidden behind its simple words.

Great stuff Peggy
Take care
Steve

OK peggy,
Lets see where the problem lies,
The metric foot established for rows R1 and R3 was ;

di DUM /di DUM /di DUM di
iamb / iamb /amphibrachic (7 syll in total)

my GOOD/ old FRIEND / _ _ _ AUtumn
So we can see immediatly that there is an unstressed syllable needed before Autumn

We could use "the Autumn" or "friendly Autumn" but there is another cheat we could try if you like the line as is. A powerful caesura may just do the trick, inserting a pause or silent beat where it is needed.

my good old friend, Autumn
or
my good old friend - Autumn

this has the added effect of accentuating the proper noun as well as easing the tongue-twister
. . nd-au . . which has also been niggling.

Wally

Hi merle,

Thank you for the accolade!! You had quite a lot to do with it!!!! Thanks again!!!



Peggy

Hi Steve,

Thank you for following the thread and for the comments!!! I'm so glad you like it!!! Workshopping is difficult, but it sure worked here!!!

Sorry you're under the weather!!! Wish I could send you some delicious, warm soup!!!

Take care!!!

Peggy

Hi Wally,

Excellent analysis!!! You are absolutely correct!!! I thought "old" was accented too, but it really isn't.

I'm going to use the comma.

Thank you so much!!! You work meter miracles!!!

Peggy

Hi Peggy!

I too want to congratulate you on the end product of your work. Isn't it wonderful when you get some friendly, constructive suggestions? Wally has put in a great deal of effort here to help you get the metre straightened out, as well as achieving a better image flow.

At the same time, you've skipped nimbly over any drastic changes to your poem, such as word-crafting that wouldn't express your personal intentions.
As you say, then it wouldn't be your own piece!

I've been following this thread and was delighted to watch you begin to enjoy the process of enrichment. All's well with good ol' Faithful Autumn!

Congratulations,
Syl***

Hi Syl,

Thank you so much for reading, suggesting, commenting and congratulating!!! And yes, Wally has worked diligently and long over the meter, and I so appreciate him!!!!! I don't know why I can't quite scan the meter of a poem of my own, but am able and have indeed scanned literally hundreds of poems by others and Shakespearian plays in my lifetime! I have a very, very close friend who is also a master of scansion as is Wally, and I'm in awe as well as envy over them both.

Thank you for your time, attention, and kindness!

Peggy