Important addition to Forum Rules, Please read before posting Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello.  

The staff of Mosaic Musings has agreed to implement a new forum participation rule in our critique and exhibition forums only as follows:

Please do not include your own composition as a response (or as part of a response) to a tile posted by someone else for critique. Instead, post it as a New Topic and provide a link in the other member's tile. Each composition deserves our full and individual attention.

We trust that our members understand the reasons for this change. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact any one of us or reply in this tile with your comments.

This change is in effect as of today.

Thank you!
Mosaic Musings Staff           :roman:  

[JustDaniel]

Please explain the reasons, since they are not included.

Respectfully, Daniel  :(

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Daniel,

I hope I can help (Sorry, Lori has had to go to work).

The basic issue is that a crit tile is there to focus upon a specific person's work; they post work for evaluation and critique. Consequent comment needs to be dedicated to either their work or the implications thereof.

Whilst comment can be structured in the form of one's own composition (e.g. a poem) it is often a distraction from the original work and can easily re-focus attention. We've been debating quite a few instances and think the only fair thing to do is to have one solid rule. If we don't do that, the probability for friction between various members or almost endless debate between the staff is very high.

We have, as a staff, actually spent ages of our own time discussing this. It's not an immediate decision - and I promise you that it is not simply in response to your poem in Ron's tile - as Lori mentioned there, we were to implement a new rule but, because that post was before the rule it can remain by all means.

And don't forget this applies to everyone from Lori to you to me. You are not the only person to have posted their own composition in others' tiles by any means.

I hope you’ll agree that it is fair that the focus of each critique tile is upon the original work posted. Sure, some members don’t mind compositions in response but others do. However, we hope that if anyone chooses to respond to a work-for-crit posting by composing their own work (which is a very good thing) then they will either post it for critique in its own right or post it in an exhibition forum for everyone to appreciate.

And, of course, some composition-responses are crits and some are not. Sorting out which is which is another time-consuming task nuisance and source of friction.

I can see that this might sometimes mean a slight change of approach in some people’s critique method - and, yes, I realise you are one of them. However, all those concerned are members who can also directly crit well - as you did very kindly with me yesterday - and I hope this slight change is not too inconvenient.

If you have further questions / concerns please post them here or PM any of the staff or Lori herself

Hope that helps.

Best wishes, James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello to all reading this tile.

Thanks Daniel for asking the question as to reasons for incorporating the change and thanks to James for your reply as well (as it goes, I had to work all day and am now just getting to the new posts for today).  

To try and be brief (since I tend to ramble on), I would like to summarize our reasons for this change.

The question that one has to ask before going further is what the intent of the critique forums in question is here at Mosaic Musings.  We believe that it’s so people can post a poem or story and then have others comment on their interpretation, good, bad or in-different, and make suggestions on what they would change to, in their opinion, make it work better. This is the 'cultivating a polished work' goal our site strives to help our members reach.  

As James indicated, "Whilst comment can be structured in the form of one's own composition (e.g. a poem) it is often a distraction from the original work and can easily re-focus attention."

I recommend to all our members who may be so inspired to write their own composition as a result of reading another member's work, by all means, post yours in either a crit or exhibition forum to showcase the muse inspiration and thank the writer who inspired you to create your own tile.  You can also utilize our "Alexandria's Library" forum for such discussions as well (where there are no forum rules in place).

Part of the staff discussions were focused on making a rule for those poetic replies that did not include any kind of critique at all (which is also subject to opinion). However, it became clear that this would make matters more complex for the members and the mods.

The policies of other writing sites has nothing to do with the intent, objective, and rules of this particular forum, and it is the opinion of the owners and moderators that responses that are not in the form of poems are more useful to the writer, allow better organization of the site, and make threads more distinct, clear, and readable.

This is something we pride ourselves on.  

Best regards.
Cleo  

[jgdittier]

Dear All,
Sorry I'm late getting here.
I accept the reasoning and will abide.
Cheers,     jgd

[JustDaniel]

Dear all...

If I continue posting here, I will abide, but I do not accept the reasoning at all.  It does not take into consideration the personality and writing style of some of your members.

1) Many of our members, including some of the moderators post comments and banter that goes on at great length, having nothing whatever to do with preparing a piece for clarificating and modification with an eye to publication.  To this particular reader, that has long been one of the major distractions to participating in this site, quite honestly.  Persons with reading disorders have difficulty wading through.  I have often simply not posted to a poem that has more than a few posts for that reason... with many of the subsequent posts being happy banter.  Do you mean to end these too?  Another rule?

2) Most of you here write in free verse.  Some of your comments in response are poetic.  Shall we assume that all attempts will now be made to make no such comments?  It is interesting to me that those lines are noticed as poetic, or verse... while some of your responses are not... when indeed they have been.  I pride myself in saying in a few words what others take paragraphs to say.  Shall I now be denied the privilege to do that?

3) Does a response in verse constitute a poem in the first place.  Does is qualify as such?  I think not!  Sharing impressions that a poem elicits in a person is a TREMENDOUS feedback source, that I have often benefited from on many occasions.  Shall we now be free of such a benefit... a picture of what a fellow writer has envisioned from our work?  THAT kind of feedback has been a joy to many.  Being POETIC does not mean we're writing a poem.  You write in prose or prosaic, free-verse lines.  I write in metered lines with rhyme.

4) Posting a response poem (especially the detailed critique kind that I offered to Ron) would be absolutely ridiculous.  I certainly have not desire to even save such a response, let alone prepare it for publication.  It is of no value to anyone except Ron.  I critiqued, left impression, demonstrated a feeling for his piece to him, and left a couple of suggestions.  What else is a critique.  My critique too no more space than someone else's, drew attention to Ron's meter and rhyme scheme and pointed to his poem.  It can be glossed over with perhaps greater ease than I have in glossing over the lengthy, drawn-out comments of some others.  

5) Knowing and appreciating the time you all have given I yet ask you to consider still again.  I have not asked anyone to not TELL me about changes or suggestions they may have about my writing, but I do prefer that they SHOW me instead, using the tools the site provides.  It makes it easier to see for me and everyone else... but I have not suggested that that be a RULE.  Some things distract some people; they are NOT a distraction to others.  

I do not ask for permission to write response poems in others' threads.  I merely ask for the privilege of being poetic when I share a response.  Not being able to do that quite honestly leaves me out.

Love to you all, but in dark sadness, Daniel

[Cleo_Serapis]

Daniel,

We have already addressed, multiple times, all five points above.  This was never personal to you.

We have gone over this with you in PM, in email and in the thread(s), and further discussions are futile. We have responded to your displeasure about the one rule change and thank you for voicing your feedback.

You need to decide whether or not continued postings are going to abide by the rules, which were agreed upon for the sole purpose of maintaining our member's focus to the original work posted.

Yes, I too have stumbled upon works posted where banter takes place. However, banter is acceptable as long as critiques have been offered too and the banter is in relation to the subject. This is also something that was discussed a few months ago in the staff forum. We step in only if the banter goes off-topic, and ask our members to kindly carry on the 'off topic' discussions in Alexandria's Library, where there are no forum participation rules in place and all can chime in and hopefully, create a new bond, friendships and appreciation for the members and topics that may not have otherwise resulted.

One item I'd like to reiterate is that although we are restricting the poem-in-response-to-another's-tile actions (or story in response to story), we DO invite all to share their inspirations derived from reading the tile at hand in either Karnak Crossing or Alexandria's Library. I'd personally like to see more activity in the Library forum. What greater compliment is there than if one member writes a piece and another is inspired so much to respond with their own, posted in any of our forums as a result (be it crit, exhibition, challenge, exercise or discussion forums)?

It is unfortunate that it has come to this, but the choice forward is yours. We greatly admire your works and would be saddened to see you go. We are simply asking to refrain from posting your own compositions in another's tile (only in crit forums), however, as a moderator yourself at other sites, I'm sure you understand our position.

Respectfully,
Lori

[Cleo_Serapis]

Dear All,
Sorry I'm late getting here.
I accept the reasoning and will abide.
Cheers,     jgd

Thanks so much Ron.

As always, I appreciate your support of MM.  :grinning:

~Cleo  :guitar:

[Cleo_Serapis]

I've made some edits to the above response to Daniel.

Hopefully, this gives a broader understanding of the reasons.

[AMETHYST]

Hi ALL...

I will be posting more often and I am glad to see this rule, as I often find when someone else posts their own work it often adds nothing to improve the poem on hand, but rather takes the focus from the poem to be critiqued.

Reading your notice, it is clear to me that what you are asking is to be considerate of other members and give their work as much courtesy for critique as we each would like for our own. I believe that light and friendly conversation is always welcome at MM, entwined in an honest and helpful critique... But to post our own work in someone else's thread is sort of like trying to out do, or belittle the posting members work and it just isnt respectful. I really liked the idea of offering a link to a posted poem of our own. That would be quite helpful when we are offering a suggestion and would like to show an example of our own work that would reflect that example.

Best to you, Liz

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Liz and all,

In my comments, above, I was speaking as a member of staff, trying to explain the decision. Now, I'm speaking just for me... (oh, yes and this is most certainly NOT aimed at any particular member at all, I promise)...

To quote you, Liz: >>it is clear to me that what you are asking is to be considerate of other members and give their work as much courtesy for critique as we each would like for our own. I believe that light and friendly conversation is always welcome at MM, entwined in an honest and helpful critique... But to post our own work in someone else's thread is sort of like trying to out do, or belittle the posting members work and it just isn't respectful

This is entirely my personal feeling and why I'm very glad we've done this. I don't think people intend to be unhelpful, disrespectful etc - but I do think the action is just that. I've had a few compositions posted in crit to me and it always upsets me.

As regards conversation, after crit and most certainly discussion of ideas / issues thrown-up by the work (e.g. its subject or its R&M) I also agree, that is a big plus of MM. Both are respectful to the original poster; they are adding to the value, usually.

>>(Liz) I will be posting more often

Now there's good news!

Best wishes to all.

James.

[JustDaniel]

Dear all,

As I have elsewhere indicated, I have no intention whatsoever of violating this rule.  I had merely thought that it was not yet a closed subject, and I was stating my arguments regarding it... thinking that it was still under consideration.

Forgive my misunderstanding, please.

Case closed.  Sure, I'm disappointed... and I've NEVER included a verse in someone else's thread to demean their work.  I've always intended to honor it.

Please also forgive me for anger I've caused in my exuberance.

Love to all, Daniel