A Poet in the World of Reality Options

[Guest_Toumai_*]

A Poet in the World of Reality

Poets muse,
waiting:
for inspiration,
enlightenment,
perfection.

I’m impatient,
gossiping
outside school:
road works,
celebrities,
holiday horrors.

Poets feel.

I am touched by:
sunburn,
beggars,
gastric ’flu.

Poets notice:
prismatic sunbeams,
striking gossamer;
rainbow magic.

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;
spinning in the shadows
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.

Poets brave
the unimaginable:
writing it ...

I take:
children to school,
cat to vet,
recycling to dump,
offence ... too easily.

Poets take:
liberties,
lovers,
drugs,
forever deciding
where to place one ...
    full
         Stop
                .

© Toumai, 2005

Thanks, James, for much-needed pre-crit

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran

A very interesting contrast between you, the poet, and you the Mum/Wife, almost as if you are two different people.  Also the contrast between the trivial and profound.

One observation.  the line Poets feel stands out from all the other aspects of what poets do, giving it more emphasis and importance than the other aspects of a poet's characteristics.

One nit.  

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;
spinning in the shadows
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.
Please take out sodding, I really don't like it in this context.  It waters down the scary feeling you are trying to convey.  Sodding is a slang word expressing anger not fear.

One last comment

Poets take:
liberties,
lovers,
drugs,
forever deciding
where to place one ...
   full
        Stop
               .

urm are you describing yourself here?  I don't think I take liberties, I definitely don't have a lover or do drugs, but yes I agonise over where to put a full stop.

I enjoyed this

Nina

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Nina,

Thanks for the comments

No, I haven't developed a split personality, and neither of these is by any means 'me' as narator - save, as you say, perfect punctuation is absorbing (telepathic dialogue in my novel: drives me nuts working it out).

I was playing with the perception that poets are something 'different' or 'special' whereas I think I we are merely seeing things in a new light or from an alternative perspective, taking liberties with established 'truths' or viewpoints, perhaps.

I don't have any dark doings, either, aside from the occasional glass of wine in the evening of a weekend.

And we don't even have a cat.

I will remove the alliterative swearing ... was trying to be down to earth, but I think you are quite right, it is innapropriate.

Cheers,

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran, Nina...

Hey this is rare: Nina and I disagree over a poem - great! (Lest people think we're comparing notes before posting).

I can understand that "sodding" might be taken as anger - though I never use anything so tame when I'm angry - all my angry words start with B, C and F!

I think in this context "sodding" is good because it expresses sheer irritation. As an arachnophobic myself I can entirely understand that. Spiders are scary and when I have one crawling down the wall - say next to where I'm writing here, I think "Sodding Hell" as I reach for a large slipper with which to dispense said creature. It is fear which results in great irritation. So I can empathise!

>N>urm are you describing yourself here?  I don't think I take liberties, I definitely don't have a lover or do drugs, but yes I agonise over where to put a full stop.

LOL - C'mon now, poets are famous for all sorts of eccentric and interesting behaviour. It doesn't mean all poets do the same but they can't all be listed in detail. When I think of poets, I think of Byron, Shelley, Oscar Wilde, John Keats etc. They, for me, represent the "Golden Age" of poetry - not that I actually like many of their works. So, again for me, that verse relates to men such as that (women have no part in this cliche view of poets I have). So, I could instantly understand that verse.

As Fran says, I did a bit of pre-crit on this because she was unsure of a couple of things (thanks for the generous credit, Fran). When I read it then and now, it seemed to me that it was a satire. I took none of it - neither the downtrodden mum nor the airy-fairy poet to mean Fran herself at all - having met her neither image seems to fit.

I think we make a mistake if we assume that voices in poems are representative of the outlooks / views / angst of the writers themselves. I have written a few personal poems but most are not and I write some with deliberate opposite views to mine etc. Poetry enables us to explore ideas - but we are not necessarily advancing our ideas all the time - and certainly not reflecting our own lives all the time.

We nearly all do drugs by the way - caffeine and alcohol to start with. But poets are famous for injecting and snorting. One thinks of Oscar Wilde and absinth. As regards lovers - I thought poets never stopped (Wilde again?!)

So I see this poem as the comical / satirical contrast between two exaggerated extremes - the “housewife” drudgery of boring life and boring speech - yak yak yak on celebs and that airy-fairy carefree and hedonistic world that poets inhabit. neither may be true of anyone - but, hey, that’s satire!

Best wishes dharlings...

A poet (not).

J.

[Guest_Jox_*]

We cross-posted there - I was working on my comments when Fran replied. Sorry for any duplication.

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran, James


OK, bear with me, it could be that two nights of very little sleep don't do much for the brain cells and is affecting my thinking but I'll try and explain myself.  

When I said you the poet, you the mother/wife etc, I wasn't necessarily meaning you personally, perhaps I should have said "one" the poet or even better instead of you - me.  Maybe I don't see the satire, because in a lot of ways you could be describing me and a couple of the different sides of me that people see, the everyday and the poet.  Here on MM the side of me I show is Nina "the poet".  In the school playground or at work and even with my family it is the other more practical, side. Most of the people around me would be quite surprised at the sort of poetry I write as I don't tend to reveal that side to my work colleagues or parents in the playground. Yes, what you have written is exaggerated, but underneath is a "profound" (not sure if that is the word I really want) truth.  I didn't actually see the housewife, a lot of housework is drudgery and boring and a lot of chat trivial, but that is the reality of working and living, rarely do you have deep meaningful conversations in the school playground - it is all gossip.  I don't recommend you try it James, it would drive you mad.

With the word sodding.  In my opinion it would have worked if it had been left as:

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;

but because the verse delved more into the scare factor evoking a notion of so much fear, then sodding is inappropriate

spinning in the shadows
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.


My comments on the last verse were a pathetic attempt at humour that obviously fell flat on its face.  Time I had some kip me thinks.

Well I hope that is a clear as my sluggish brain now.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina, Fran,

>N>OK, bear with me, it could be that two nights of very little sleep don't do much for the brain cells and is affecting my thinking but I'll try and explain myself.  

That's horrid - sleep deprivation is very nasty. Empathy / Sympathy.

>N>When I said you the poet, you the mother/wife etc, I wasn't necessarily meaning you personally, perhaps I should have said "one" the poet or even better instead of you - me.  Maybe I don't see the satire, because in a lot of ways you could be describing me and a couple of the different sides of me that people see, the everyday and the poet.  Here on MM the side of me I show is Nina "the poet".  In the school playground or at work and even with my family it is the other more practical, side. Most of the people around me would be quite surprised at the sort of poetry I write as I don't tend to reveal that side to my work colleagues or parents in the playground. Yes, what you have written is exaggerated, but underneath is a "profound" (not sure if that is the word I really want) truth.  I didn't actually see the housewife, a lot of housework is drudgery and boring and a lot of chat trivial, but that is the reality of working and living, rarely do you have deep meaningful conversations in the school playground - it is all gossip.  I don't recommend you try it James, it would drive you mad.

LOL! I think we're all like that Nina - we'd like the dreamy life but have to plump for much mundane.

No, not being a parent, I didn't have to deal with all that but I've had plenty of mundane moments. Though I can't gossip - doesn't interest me to the degree I just can't do it. But you should be in many teachers' staff room at break time... back-stabbing and gossip galore.

Sodding - ok.

>N>My comments on the last verse were a pathetic attempt at humour that obviously fell flat on its face.  Time I had some kip me thinks.

May be time for sleep but you are most certainly not being pathetic. you're one of the very best critics on MM.

>F>Well I hope that is a clear as my sluggish brain now.

LOL Sleep well!

J.

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Nina,

I am so sorry you have been so hot and busy all weekend. I was worried that you were offended with my last verse - then I realised that meant you would be considering yourself as a poet, which is wonderful.

I was being tongue in cheek as I wrote - and I think that Byronic images of debauchery did flit thru my mind as I wrote, perhaps with a wistful eye on the freedom that such poets had. Oh the indulgence of spending whole minutes contemplating punctuation.

I do admit to writing, but try not to mention poetry. Most of my aquaintances seem to find me an amusing eccentric - 'see that Fran? She writes, she does.'

I shall have to think some more about what I am trying to say with this one - which followed originally from 'Reluctant Poet' ... but when I am not melting in the hottest room in the house.

Hope you sleep well.

Hugs,

Fran

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran

The tongue in cheek part, went right over my head and out the open window, perhaps a bit too close to reality for comfort. Maybe you need greater exaggeration. I wasn't in the least bit offended by the last verse.  Had I been, I would like to think that I'd PM you and say so.  

Nina

[Eisa]

Hi Fran

Bravo! -- I think this is wonderful.  

I love the comparisons with ordinary life and the imagination of the poet that sometimes takes us to other realms. This is very well thought out and written.

As for `sodding' -- I can see both sides here and haven't made up my mind which side to stand.

So people think you are strange  because you  write poetry -- LOL!    I can relate to that. people think me very weird too. I dont just write poems, but breed lizards and snakes. The old lady next door really thinks I'm not normal.  

Snow  

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi James,

Thank you very much for your help, both in sorting out my messy first draft confusions and also the replies yesterday.

I may well add more to this and try to strngthen the satire as I develop the poem (if I do): that is one of the joys of MM, trying a poem out to see if it 'works'

Fran

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Nina

The tongue in cheek part, went right over my head and out the open window, perhaps a bit too close to reality for comfort. Maybe you need greater exaggeration.

Oh dear. I realised reading thru what you had picked out that it could be seen as personal to myself although I wasn't really thinking of it being about two sides of the same person: more perceptions of poets from 'normal' folk. But we all (as poets) fit into both cetegories depending on situation.

I wasn't in the least bit offended by the last verse.  Had I been, I would like to think that I'd PM you and say so.

Thanks. I was hoping I hadn't, but I hated to think I might. (I shall make a very poor protest poet if I don't like winding anyone up, I fear, won't I?)

Fran

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Snow,

Thank you so much for your comments.  

I love the comparisons with ordinary life and the imagination of the poet that sometimes takes us to other realms. This is very well thought out and written.

It needs a bit more work, but thanks.

As for `sodding' -- I can see both sides here and haven't made up my mind which side to stand.

I can see what Nina means about it not quite working in the context of the whole verse, so I am thinking about it, too.

So people think you are strange  because you  write poetry -- LOL!    I can relate to that. people think me very weird too. I dont just write poems, but breed lizards and snakes. The old lady next door really thinks I'm not normal.  

Fantastic! I love reptiles. Any chance of you bringing a few to the next MM get together?  James's dogs came  to the last one.

But I can imagine the neighbours might be a little puzzled, and I have to admit, I worked with a chap who bred tropical (huge) spiders ... in tanks in his office. Very worrying.

Fran

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran

(I shall make a very poor protest poet if I don't like winding anyone up, I fear, won't I?)
you and me both.  I hate upsetting people.  Perhaps we can start a new breed of protest poets.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran, Nina...

The "I'd really prefer it if you didn't do that, if you don't awfully mind" school of protest poet? It would have to be British. I can't see anyone else joining. I'm tempted to apply for membership but it would have to be on the extreme militant wing (advocating withoulding of scones and burning our... bonfires).

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Fran, James

The "I'd really prefer it if you didn't do that, if you don't awfully mind" school of protest poet? It would have to be British.
ROFL, that would be the gentleman's school of protest poet.  I think ours would be "this is what I think, not that I'm necessarily right and you don't have to agree with me" open-minded school of protest poet.

I'm tempted to apply for membership but it would have to be on the extreme militant wing (advocating withoulding of scones and burning our... bonfires).
Please do apply, we need you to balance out the extremes, though we'd expect the scones to be forthcoming, so get baking.


Nina

[Cybele]

[b]


Good morning Fran,

This is a very interesting concept between classic poets and a modern day 'mum' poet. Quite intriguing! The higher plains of thought and the rushed existence of the modern world are very well contrasted here.

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;
spinning in the shadows
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.

I think the injection of the word 'sodding' here adds to the rushed, harried feeling of a housewife and mother's feelings of frustration.

Poets take:
liberties,
lovers,
drugs,
forever deciding
where to place one ...
   full
        Stop
               .

Like the line break and positioning of the full stop Fran, most amusing!  

If you mean poets such as Byron or Coleridge et al, then I think the word 'drugs' would be better as 'opiates', since they did not mainline or snort or whatever,~ but drank tinctures of opium (Laudenum), or smoked pipes of opium . In which case it would be 'Poets took': As it stands it might indicate that most poets take drugs .

I was expecting a last comparison Fran. Since you write from the points of view alternatively, then the natural sequence would end with the here and now. I think a final comparison would finish this off nicely. It could even be a funny comparison, since I was smiling at the mother's reactions (whether you intended that or not.)  

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi Grace,

Thank you so much for dropping by.

This is a very interesting concept between classic poets and a modern day 'mum' poet. Quite intriguing! The higher plains of thought and the rushed existence of the modern world are very well contrasted here.

Thank you very much.

I think the injection of the word 'sodding' here adds to the rushed, harried feeling of a housewife and mother's feelings of frustration

That was the intention ... will probably think about it for ever (like that full stop?) so it may well stay.

If you mean poets such as Byron or Coleridge et al, then I think the word 'drugs' would be better as 'opiates', since they did not mainline or snort or whatever,~ but drank tinctures of opium (Laudenum), or smoked pipes of opium . In which case it would be 'Poets took': As it stands it might indicate that most poets take drugs

Well, I drink coffee and the occasional glass of wine

I think I am coming to the conclusion that I am more along the lines Nina suggested with this: I am contrasting a 'mom-type' life with a 'poetic' life as imagined (cos poets can't possibly be normal mortals, surely, can they?)

Having been an 'academic' for years I have to admit that about 1% of the time was spent really thinking - the rest was arguing (with colleagues, computers and funding bodies) or on all those tasks that we like to pretend are 'work'.  But the perception of academics is very different. I think here I'm giving poets a bit of the same 'respect' (or not)

I was expecting a last comparison Fran. Since you write from the points of view alternatively, then the natural sequence would end with the here and now. I think a final comparison would finish this off nicely. It could even be a funny comparison, since I was smiling at the mother's reactions (whether you intended that or not.)

Yes, another would balance it better. But I do rather like finishing with that full stop. Plus I think the final verse is suggesting that the poet might consider herself as one?

Love,

Fran

[Guest__*]

Dear Fran,

I am shocked to see I have not yet commented - read it, and all the answers, so somehow assumed I was in there.

I think I see one or two places. I'm wondering if the contrast would be stronger if you used not poetS but "the poet"?

A Poet in the World of Reality

Poets muse,  
waiting: -- don't think you need the : here ?
for inspiration,
enlightenment,
perfection.

I’m impatient, -- see below
outside school:
road works,
celebrities,
holiday horrors.

I'm not amused by
gossiping
road works,
celebrities,
holiday horrors.

Poets feel. -- Could be a whole verse, to contrast with next :

Poets feel
passion,
the movement of heavenly bodies,
their cousins' most intimate concerns.

I am touched by:
sunburn,
beggars,
gastric ’flu.

Poets notice: -- del :
prismatic sunbeams,
striking gossamer; -- only comma
rainbow magic.

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;
spinning in the shadows -- add ,
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.

Poets brave
the unimaginable:
writing it ...

I take:
children to school,
cat to vet,
recycling to dump,
offence ... too easily. -- Love this inversion !

Poets take:
liberties,
lovers,
drugs,
forever deciding -- forever, deciding
where to place one ...
   full
        Stop
               .

Feel free to ignore me, just some ideas. Loved the concept, felt a little more alt/balance was needed.

Love
Alan

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Dear Alan,

Apologies for the delay in my reply here; doing the headless chicken impressions with school etc this week  

I am shocked to see I have not yet commented - read it, and all the answers, so somehow assumed I was in there.

I frequently do that. I am delighted you managed to leave a crit - thanks.

I think I see one or two places. I'm wondering if the contrast would be stronger if you used not poetS but "the poet"?

Yes, that sounds like it would strengthen it.

Poets muse,  
waiting: -- don't think you need the : here ?

No, probably not, thanks.

I’m impatient, -- see below
outside school:
road works,
celebrities,
holiday horrors.

I'm not amused by
gossiping
road works,
celebrities,
holiday horrors.

Poets feel. -- Could be a whole verse, to contrast with next :

Poets feel
passion,
the movement of heavenly bodies,
their cousins' most intimate concerns.

Interesting suggestions - ta: will have a play with that

I am touched by:
sunburn,
beggars,
gastric ’flu.

Poets notice: -- del :  thanks
prismatic sunbeams,
striking gossamer; -- only comma   thanks
rainbow magic.

I wonder where
sodding scary spiders
crouch, waiting;
spinning in the shadows -- add ,   thanks
menacing my existence.
So much debris;
so much fear.

I take:
children to school,
cat to vet,
recycling to dump,
offence ... too easily. -- Love this inversion !   thanks  :)

Poets take:
liberties,
lovers,
drugs,
forever deciding -- forever, deciding
where to place one ...
  full
       Stop
              .

Feel free to ignore me, just some ideas. Loved the concept, felt a little more alt/balance was needed.

Thanks very much Alan. I definitely like 'the poet' as an individual and I'll be revising soon I hope ...

Love,

Fran