The Portrait Options

[Guest_Gregory_*]

The Portrait (1st Revision) 29/08

Seasons go where they have been to
as surely as a breath will come
or seed emerge sunflower; acrylic
may lose its colour, fade, be buried under
light, never make another scene;
nor can our curtains screen out winter.

I recall we talked tall politic
till rosy morning. Your clever grin
betrayed no malaise but rum
plump cheeks hiding sorrow under.
You have gone, and your face is going.
Too soon you rose to close the window,

pull the curtain shut on cold wind blowing
from the south, and on the north wall glowing,
your painted eyes like Mona’s, cheeky as a heretic,
seemed to close. “I must be going” you would hum
to yourself a busy Zephyr sporting thunder
then withdrew from that fervent dream,

you came, at last, to spin to.
Spring blossom retouches the washed out winter
with fine brush strokes, the Eucalypt gum
sprays its heavy scent with enduring candour.
I take your portrait, for spring is ever clean
where last years flowers grace your basilica.

I rest it on the headstone of your going.
We never saw the evergreen
heaving snow, or wilted under
alien suns, nor into
freshness ever brought the cyclic
no! The pallor of your pelle appalled your rum

perplexity, no more to Rome would you be going.
Our love, never idyllic
but in part, an intimate wonder,
capped by a still life and a tragic swing
into shallow stump-full water under the silver Beech
whose gum-nuts, hung around the frame, have become

my reason to refuse the cyclic negation, to come
into the season’s deciduous scene
with its thunder, and go with its going.


Original

The Portrait

Winter woes go and come
and those who fear the going
will never see the evergreen
heaving snow, or wilt in heat under
alien shores, nor into
freshness ever bring the cyclic

no! That the year is never idyllic
but in part may be, is no wonder
for the months that true joys bring
are few, and tragedy may come
more often than gum-nuts on the silver Beech.
Seasons go where they have been to

as surely as a breath will come
or seed emerge sunflower; acrylic
may lose its colour, fade, be buried under
light, never make another scene -
nor can our curtain screen out winter.
You have gone, and your face is going.

I recall we talked tall politic
till rosy morning. Your clever grin
betrayed no malaise but rum
plump cheeks hiding sorrow under.
Too soon you rose to close the window,
pull the curtain shut on cold wind blowing

from the south, and on the north wall glowing,
your painted eyes like Mona’s, cheeky as a heretic,
seemed to close. “I must be going” you would hum
to yourself as busy as Zephyr sporting thunder
then withdrew from that fervent dream,
you came, at last, to spin to.

Spring blossom retouches the washed out winter
with fine brush strokes - the Eucalypt gum
sprays its heavy scent with enduring candour.
I take your portrait, for spring is ever clean
where last years flowers grace your basilica.
I rest it on the headstone of your going.

I now refuse the cycle of negation. Come
when this season’s forevergreen
comes and go when it is going.

[Guest_Cathy_*]

Hi Gregory!

I'm not sure how to crit this piece. Is it a specific form without rhyme? Is there a specific meter? I don't want to offer something that will mess it up so I will wait to see what you have to say. Maybe this is one for Seren's perhaps? *smiles*

Cathy

[JustDaniel]

Note: This was posted when the tile was in the other forum:

Greetings, Gregory.

I'd read this several times, and I'm still a bit baffled, first by the designation 'sesquain' -- which I cannot find anywhere -- and then by the choppy feel and at times almost stream-of-conscious-like sense of flow -- and then by the varying, evident pattern of sounds with which the lines in your stanzas end... some of which don't seem to be words with which one would end lines. It also felt as though the stanza formation was artificial... as though a piece of prose were chopped up into approximately equal pieces and cast as a poem...

but then I noticed the three-line ending stanza, and perhaps I had an AHA ?

Perhaps you're working at a sestina ?

Here is a brief description I've pieced together of that form:

A Sestina is a poem that consists of six six-line stanzas and a three line conclusion (the envoi). To write a sestina, choose 6 key words and write them down the right hand side of your paper. Then compose each line, working to the word that is already there.
In the next stanza, you need to rearrange the order of the key words. To keep track of your ordering, number each word in the first stanza. The pattern for the stanzas then will look like this:
Stanza 1: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Stanza 2: 6, 1, 5, 2, 4, 3
Stanza 3: 3, 6, 4, 1, 2, 5
Stanza 4: 5, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4
Stanza 5: 4, 5, 1, 3, 6, 2
Stanza 6: 2, 4, 6, 5, 3, 1
Envoi: 4,5 / 6,3 / 2,1 (or other pattern)

Am I on the right track, Gregory?

needin' more Light, Daniel

[Guest_Gregory_*]

Daniel, bloody marvellous, that's exactly what I was looking for. Now I will go back and check out whether I matched the formulae. THis was stream-of and I have decided the first two stanzas are really expendable anyway. I might develop the story into another 2 stazas to attempt the form again, and look into your very nice piece of information. I take it that the order of words has some flexibility as long as you re-order, or is the set pattern you showed the 'perfect' form? I didn't take much care to order the rhymes, they ordered themselves because I made up the last words of S1 as I wrote, not before. I kind of had to for the rest, except for a couple that just went 'whhump'. I heard someone mention what is was but forgot and sesquain was the closest my memory got (I knew it started with a 'ses' that's about all). Thanks for the info, I will enjoy revision. Gregory

Cathy, thanks for the visit, I think Daniel has answered your questions better than I can. Cheers Gregory

[JustDaniel]

Greetings, Gregory...

Just two notes in response to your comments: First notice that the pattern is in regard to the use of the closing WORDS (not merely rhymes), and second, no the pattern is quite set for the order of the use of the closing words... EXCEPT for the envoi. Each of the 6 words is used either as an end word or an internal word in each of the lines of that closing tercet... but there seems to be a number of options as to the pattern... but only in the envoi.

deLighting in sharing, Daniel

[Guest_Gregory_*]

Thanks for the sum up Daniel. I have revised and posted the revision, but I have to admidt defeat on this one. I got the word order all wrong, and will attempt to write another completely different poem to compensate this attempt. I guess 'The Portrait' in the final analysis is not a Sestina, some variation that got close. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Gregory

[Merlin]

Hello Gregory,
I've never tackled a sestina - there are simply too many forms out there to do them all, or have interest in. Perhaps one day...

Since you aren't going with the fixed sestina form, I gotta say, I did like the "senquain" as you first dubbed it. Other than an avenue somewhere in California, the name appears to be open.

Good on ya for giving it a shot.

Merlin

[Guest_Gregory_*]

Nice idea Merlin, I'll give it a shot, do a wikapedia search on senquain and see if its been used. Thanks for the thumbs up. cheers Gregory

[Cyn]

my understanding of sestina is as daniel points out EXCEPT the repeated word is supposed to be at the end of each line. the next stanza's first line always ends with the same word as the last line of the previous stanza

does anyone have info to dispute my interpretation?

i wrote one (not wonderful) a snapping turtles tale

it rhymed but it does not need to. i prefer the unrhymed form

[Cleo_Serapis]

my understanding of sestina is as daniel points out EXCEPT the repeated word is supposed to be at the end of each line. the next stanza's first line always ends with the same word as the last line of the previous stanza

does anyone have info to dispute my interpretation?

i wrote one (not wonderful) a snapping turtles tale

it rhymed but it does not need to. i prefer the unrhymed form

Hi Cyn and Gregory.

This is part of the definition posted in Karnak for Sestina:

It consists of six six-line (sestets) stanzas followed by a three-line conclusion (envoy). Rather than use a rhyme scheme, the six ending words of the first stanza are repeated as the ending words of the other five stanzas in a set pattern. The envoy uses two of the ending words per line, again in a set pattern.

The most strict interpretations usually call for the sestina to be written in a fixed meter, such as iambic pentameter. However, many modern interpretations do not consider this a necessity. Such leniency is not given to the pattern of the end words, the heart of what makes a sestina the form that it is. This pattern is fixed, and builds upon itself from each stanza.

A tip on writing the sestina is to choose your 6 key (end) words before you even begin the poem, then compose each line, working to each word already chosen. The first stanza is the defining stanza, and the six words that are used to end each line are the defining words, as they will be repeated throughout the rest of the poem.

Example: for this, each letter represents the ending word of a line:

a b c d e f (first stanza)
f a e b d c (second stanza)
c f d a b e (third stanza)
e c b f a d (fourth stanza)
d e a c f b (fifth stanza)
b d f e c a (sixth stanza)

a d (1st line of the 7th stanza, "a" must be in the line, but the line must end with "d") b e (2nd line of the 7th stanza, "b" must be in the line, but the line must end with "e") c f (3rd line of the 7th stanza, "c" must be in the line, but the line must end with "f")

[Cyn]

thanks lori that's what i thought

[Merlin]

In my quest to collect all forms into one volume, I have several pages of sestina information. All agree that it is a highly structured form, having end-words that are repeated in the six stanzas plus envoy. It need not be a rhymed poem, nor is the line length and meter fixed.

One source says, “No deviation from this order is tolerated.” – meaning the word ending order, as is listed inside this thread. The envoy is somewhat more lenient in that regard.

Variations are possible; among those listed are “standard,” including rhymed and double, and “non-standard,” including Newman, quartina, and bina. There are a few more, having roots in Georgia (the country, not state!) and Africa, if you’re really looking for punishment. Of course, variations take on a different name then.

Someday, someday, I may tackle one too.

Merlin

[Guest_Don_*]

Hi all,

Sorry Gregory, but I do not detect a sestina at all in your poem.

I thank JustDaniel for detective work toward sestina. I thank Cyn for fine tuning Daniel. Last month I wrote a sestina for another organization according to Lori's outline. My endings do not ryhme and the meter is definitely iambic pentameter.

I was hoping to read a sestina, as I find them difficult to write due to length. Six endings repeated six times plus all contained in an envoi of three lines is pushing the envelope of my magic pen.

Thanks Merlin for dashing the form on rocks of variations of which I know nothing. It is a very old form, which may be expected to contain differing family members.

Sestina, found in Wikapedia is very informative.

Don

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Gregory.

So as not to confuse any members with this posting in our 'fixed form' forum, since this is NOT Sestina, nor does it have a rhyme scheme or metrical pattern, I would opt to move this into our Free Verse forum, unless of course you are planning a revision to R&M or Sestina.

Please let me know ASAP.

Thanks.
~Cleo

P.S. If it is based on Sestina then might I ask you to please note that in the heading or beginning of your post "based on the stanza format of Sestina" so all will know in advance of offering their feedback.

Thanks!

[Cyn]

I would like to add that I think there are some great things happening in this poem - my initial question was about form, simply for my own edification - not to be the form police

as it stands, i think it works well as free verse, but it would not matter to me if it stayed put

[Cleo_Serapis]

I would like to add that I think there are some great things happening in this poem - my initial question was about form, simply for my own edification - not to be the form police

as it stands, i think it works well as free verse, but it would not matter to me if it stayed put

I agree Cyn - we are not fostering feedback here in Gregory's tile to be 'form' police for Sestina. I too, am enjoying the interactions that this poem is creating.

However, since the poem is labeled as a 'fixed form' and it is not - my role is to make sure that all members' poetry is posted in the correct forum (or at a minimum, members understand why it is posted in Hermes (in this case - based on the stanza format of Sestina).

Hope all understand that. Gregory, I look forward to your feedback.

Lori

[Guest_Don_*]

I agree with Cyn in that moving is optional to me. I would like to know if Gegory intends to revise into R&M or should we continue to crit his existing poem as FV.

I wish not to be form police, but if a sestina or modified sestina is not intended then simply removing it from the title will do for me. What does Gregory intend?

Don

[JustDaniel]

Greetings, all. I noted this from Don's comment:

Sestina, found in Wikapedia is very informative.

Don is right, methinks... and here's the Wikapedia link he refers to: Sestina

... and of course our own source of information for Sestina is found in Karnak ... where I hope Don will post his... if not here for crit!

As for your poem, Gregory, I think it has enough structure for it to qualify as a form poem of sorts, since it has a certain number of sestets and a tercet... but it could also be considered free verse. It's kind of up to you... so long as you don't call it a sestina. But you still could make it one (though that doesn't seem to be your desire, or even ours!).

deLighting in the interaction, Daniel

P.S. If you leave it here, you could describe it in the tag line something like this:
Six sestets and a tercet rhyming in the word pattern of a sestina.

[AMETHYST]

Hello Gregory,

Daniel has left some great information. Unfortunately, in its present state, this in no way nears a Sestina, in any of the acceptable variations. With or without Rhyme/Meter present, it is Free Verse and untill Gregory can return with a revision that can be viewed and reviewed as a Sestina, I am going to be moving this to Seren's.

Gregory there is some excellent links and resource information provided within the thread that you can rework this into an acceptable Sestina. And if your intent is truly to meet that form's requirements, I will enjoy offering you a critique that will help you find that goal. But unfortunately, the only nearness I see to any formlike poem here is you revised to add the final Triplet. I think this is a good start toward learning the new form and discovering the beauty of the form.




Best Wishes, Liz

The Portrait (1st Revision) 29/08

Seasons go where they have been to
as surely as a breath will come
or seed emerge sunflower; acrylic
may lose its colour, fade, be buried under
light, never make another scene;
nor can our curtains screen out winter.

I recall we talked tall politic
till rosy morning. Your clever grin
betrayed no malaise but rum
plump cheeks hiding sorrow under.
You have gone, and your face is going.
Too soon you rose to close the window,

pull the curtain shut on cold wind blowing
from the south, and on the north wall glowing,
your painted eyes like Mona’s, cheeky as a heretic,
seemed to close. “I must be going” you would hum
to yourself a busy Zephyr sporting thunder
then withdrew from that fervent dream,

you came, at last, to spin to.
Spring blossom retouches the washed out winter
with fine brush strokes, the Eucalypt gum
sprays its heavy scent with enduring candour.
I take your portrait, for spring is ever clean
where last years flowers grace your basilica.

I rest it on the headstone of your going.
We never saw the evergreen
heaving snow, or wilted under
alien suns, nor into
freshness ever brought the cyclic
no! The pallor of your pelle appalled your rum

perplexity, no more to Rome would you be going.
Our love, never idyllic
but in part, an intimate wonder,
capped by a still life and a tragic swing
into shallow stump-full water under the silver Beech
whose gum-nuts, hung around the frame, have become

my reason to refuse the cyclic negation, to come
into the season’s deciduous scene
with its thunder, and go with its going.

[Guest_Gregory_*]

Thank you all for your interest in this. I have concluded that this piece. not being Sestina should be moved to the free form category so it can be assessed as a poem rather than an attempt at a form which it obviously fails in. I have written another Sestina now anyway which I will post once I have ironed out the problems I have found within it. I am glad it brought a bit of discussion 'the Portrait'. I think any attempt at a formal title would be pointless, and I might just leave the stanza breaks, though it looks like Sestina and not name it at all. Better leave it as a free form. Thanks again for all your interest in this. Gregory