stars scatter, haiku Options

[Eisa]

Below are 2 versions of one of my very first attempts at haiku -- but there is no indication of seasons here. Can anyone suggest how I can change this into a true haiku?

My revision is much different to the originaal

running
along the cliff edge --
my alarm clock rings



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

stars scatter
a blanket of dreams;
alarm bell rings

I dream
beneath a star-blanket;
the rooster calls

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Below are 2 versions of one of my very first attempts at haiku -- but there is no indication of seasons here. Can anyone suggest how I can change this into a true haiku?


stars scatter
a blanket of dreams;
alarm bell rings

I dream
beneath a star-blanket;
the rooster calls

Snow, I don't know where to start with this. It is too lyrical, too 'poetic' for haiku. But as Lary mentioned on another thread, perhaps it could become a tanka. Tanka has an entirely different approach to haiku; it's emotional, lyrical, poetic, the poet is seen, it is more conclusive, it utilises a pivot.... I am searching for a specific link I once had, which compares tanka with haiku, showing these differences. In the meantime, I'll stack relevent articles here. Hang on....

http://www.tankaonline.com/Quick%20Start%20Guide.htm

http://tankasocietyofamerica.com/Tankadefined.htm

http://www.tankacentral.com/tankacentral/l...iningtanka.html

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Ah, here it is! First, here's the link:

http://www.ahapoetry.com/tanka.htm#vs

I will copy it here as well:


TANKA VS. HAIKU

Jane Reichhold

In the Winter '90 issue of Mirrors, I wrote in the essay "Tanka for the Memory" that not many rules for tanka had been written in English. That's still true, but in the meantime I've searched the longer bookshelves of Berkeley stores. What is also true is if you look long enough -- anything can be found.

Knowing any of the following will probably not change or improve your writing of poems one iota, but may cast in quick-setting concrete some sindications of what you -- or someone else is writing. What I found was a comparison of haiku to tanka in editor Marie Philomene's preface of The New Year's Poetry Party at the Imperial Court -- Two Decades in Postwar Years: 1960-1979. By shortening her remarks and adding those of others, I've arranged the comparisons in the following brief form.

SIMILARITIES

TANKA ----------------------------------HAIKU

simplicity

succinct

reflects nature

traditionally no violence

traditionally no war images

COMPARISONS

TANKA--------------------------HAIKU

History

13 centuries-----------------------3 centuries

Aim

beauty-----------------------------is-ness

Length

31 onji / syllables -----------------17 onji/syllables

Traits

feminine ---------------------------masculine

lyrical-------------------------------fragmented

Social Background

courtly ----------------------------merchants and lower class

literary-----------------------------part of a game

Techniques

to savor beauty --------------------to open the heart

contemplation----------------------quick and direct

emotional ---------------------------aim to have no emotion

uses imagination--------------------senses with concrete images

written to assigned themes -------based on an experience

five parts/five images --------------three images - max.

exclusion of the ugly ---------------write beautifully of the common

written to be a chanted song ------spoken crisply

Zen

use of symbolic images -------------use of Zen subjects

Satire Forms

Kyoka /mad poem--satirical -------senryu

Language

traditional uses a limited ------------speaks of common things

accepted vocabulary of images -----with common language

that are agreed to be elegant --------to reveal uncommon ideas

Method

holds a mirror reflecting -------------just as it is

nature and humanity ------------------also

[laryalee]

Hi Snow,
yes, a blanket of dreams and a star-blanket
are both too poetic for haiku...metaphors
are frowned upon!

I think it would be hard to work stars into dreams,
because if you're dreaming, can you still see the stars?

Now the idea of awakening from a dream to either
the alarm or a rooster...that sounds like a good
haiku moment! And a season does not always need
to be shown.

Or, like Kathy suggests, tanka has far more leniency...
Along with her excellent links, here's a page with
tanka by Mariko Kitakubo...one of hers is about a dream:

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...a/Kitakubo.html



Lary

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Snow.

I liek the idea of what you are trying to say in both version. Let me see if I can come up with something:

stars scatter
a blanket of dreams;
alarm bell rings

I dream
beneath a star-blanket;
the rooster calls

I like the idea Lary proposes to focus on dreams and the alarm clock - so perhaps you could come up with something about those 'dreams' and then the aha - the 'alarm clock rings' or 'rooster crows'. Perhaps introduce a moment on the farm in a certain season like the cutting of hay, milking the cows at pre-dawn looking at stars or well, something like that?

Harvest moon
blankets dreams --
rooster crows

Not sure if this is correct but an idea?
Enjoying!
~Cleo

[AMETHYST]

Hi Snow...


I like the images of these ... going for a seasonal addition, I like 'harvest moon' as it implies both Autumn and evening ... and adding that peaceful sleeping time ... my favorite ending line would be alarm bell rings, as I think it can be 'felt' more vividly through the readers own experience and shows more of ahha...

I like this one alot...


Hugs, Liz

[Eisa]

Below are 2 versions of one of my very first attempts at haiku -- but there is no indication of seasons here. Can anyone suggest how I can change this into a true haiku?


stars scatter
a blanket of dreams;
alarm bell rings

I dream
beneath a star-blanket;
the rooster calls

Snow, I don't know where to start with this. It is too lyrical, too 'poetic' for haiku. But as Lary mentioned on another thread, perhaps it could become a tanka. Tanka has an entirely different approach to haiku; it's emotional, lyrical, poetic, the poet is seen, it is more conclusive, it utilises a pivot.... I am searching for a specific link I once had, which compares tanka with haiku, showing these differences. In the meantime, I'll stack relevent articles here. Hang on....

http://www.tankaonline.com/Quick%20Start%20Guide.htm

http://tankasocietyofamerica.com/Tankadefined.htm

http://www.tankacentral.com/tankacentral/l...iningtanka.html

Mmmm ... I always intended trying a tanka, perhaps now's the time! I wish I had more time at the moment. I'm sitting here, with my laptop on a shaky picnic table in a near empty room. We're having the room decorated this week, so I won't be able to get online as much as I'd like. Grrrr!! Yes, a tanka might be the answer -- or a cinquain?

Snow

[Eisa]

Ah, here it is! First, here's the link:

http://www.ahapoetry.com/tanka.htm#vs

I will copy it here as well:


TANKA VS. HAIKU

Jane Reichhold

In the Winter '90 issue of Mirrors, I wrote in the essay "Tanka for the Memory" that not many rules for tanka had been written in English. That's still true, but in the meantime I've searched the longer bookshelves of Berkeley stores. What is also true is if you look long enough -- anything can be found.

Knowing any of the following will probably not change or improve your writing of poems one iota, but may cast in quick-setting concrete some sindications of what you -- or someone else is writing. What I found was a comparison of haiku to tanka in editor Marie Philomene's preface of The New Year's Poetry Party at the Imperial Court -- Two Decades in Postwar Years: 1960-1979. By shortening her remarks and adding those of others, I've arranged the comparisons in the following brief form.

SIMILARITIES

TANKA ----------------------------------HAIKU

simplicity

succinct

reflects nature

traditionally no violence

traditionally no war images

COMPARISONS

TANKA--------------------------HAIKU

History

13 centuries-----------------------3 centuries

Aim

beauty-----------------------------is-ness

Length

31 onji / syllables -----------------17 onji/syllables

Traits

feminine ---------------------------masculine

lyrical-------------------------------fragmented

Social Background

courtly ----------------------------merchants and lower class

literary-----------------------------part of a game

Techniques

to savor beauty --------------------to open the heart

contemplation----------------------quick and direct

emotional ---------------------------aim to have no emotion

uses imagination--------------------senses with concrete images

written to assigned themes -------based on an experience

five parts/five images --------------three images - max.

exclusion of the ugly ---------------write beautifully of the common

written to be a chanted song ------spoken crisply

Zen

use of symbolic images -------------use of Zen subjects

Satire Forms

Kyoka /mad poem--satirical -------senryu

Language

traditional uses a limited ------------speaks of common things

accepted vocabulary of images -----with common language

that are agreed to be elegant --------to reveal uncommon ideas

Method

holds a mirror reflecting -------------just as it is

nature and humanity ------------------also

Oh wow!! Thanks Kathy!

Snow

[Eisa]

Hi Snow,
yes, a blanket of dreams and a star-blanket
are both too poetic for haiku...metaphors
are frowned upon!

I think it would be hard to work stars into dreams,
because if you're dreaming, can you still see the stars?

Now the idea of awakening from a dream to either
the alarm or a rooster...that sounds like a good
haiku moment! And a season does not always need
to be shown.

Or, like Kathy suggests, tanka has far more leniency...
Along with her excellent links, here's a page with
tanka by Mariko Kitakubo...one of hers is about a dream:

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...a/Kitakubo.html



Lary

Yes -- I thought metaphor was 'out'! I have had other thoughts in my mind and am glad thet a season doesn't have to be shown. I do like the thought of being woken by the alarm/rooster.

Thanks for all you wonderful links -- I am learning ... slowly. I just haven't the time to sit and write much at the moment. I will be back soon though.

Snow

[Guest_Kathy_*]

renovations--
shaky haiku at a picnic
table

[Eisa]

Hi Snow.

I liek the idea of what you are trying to say in both version. Let me see if I can come up with something:

stars scatter
a blanket of dreams;
alarm bell rings

I dream
beneath a star-blanket;
the rooster calls

I like the idea Lary proposes to focus on dreams and the alarm clock - so perhaps you could come up with something about those 'dreams' and then the aha - the 'alarm clock rings' or 'rooster crows'. Perhaps introduce a moment on the farm in a certain season like the cutting of hay, milking the cows at pre-dawn looking at stars or well, something like that?

Harvest moon
blankets dreams --
rooster crows

Not sure if this is correct but an idea?
Enjoying!
~Cleo

Yes, I like the idea of dreaming, then waking to the alarm. Harvest moon is a good one! Thanks!

Snow

[Eisa]

Hi Snow...


I like the images of these ... going for a seasonal addition, I like 'harvest moon' as it implies both Autumn and evening ... and adding that peaceful sleeping time ... my favorite ending line would be alarm bell rings, as I think it can be 'felt' more vividly through the readers own experience and shows more of ahha...

I like this one alot...


Hugs, Liz

Yes -- I've had the alarm bell ring just in time to escape from a bad dream! Phew! LOL!

Snow

[Eisa]

renovations--
shaky haiku at a picnic
table

LOL!! that's me!! Great haiku Kathy.

Snow

[Eisa]

The comment I just made to Liz made me think of this ~

I dream
he runs on the cliff edge;
alarm bell rings

It was a dream I had about my son -- I was so glad to wake up!
This has no reference to seasons, but perhaps it's seryu?

I've just had another flash from my childhood ~

I dream
running from big waves;
alarm bell rings

I used to have that dream sometime when I was little -- omg tsunami! I think I'm getting morbid and it's time to go to bed. Perhaps I'll have some fresh thoughts tomorrow.

Snow

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Lary, I see a picture of you here, along with your beautiful haiga.

Congratulations!

(Follow the links, folks. Go to 'Archives,' then 2007. Click on Lary's name under haiga.)

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...a/Kitakubo.html



Or take this shortcut; here ya are...

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...aser/index.html

[laryalee]

Nice work, Snow!
Those dream haiku feel more realistic
to me...and I'm sure they're familiar moments
to everyone!

Now, another challenge...with the alarm bell
(or "alarm clock"?) do you suppose that one
would see the waking process?
This would mean that the dream doesn't even
need to be mentioned!

running
along the cliff edge --
my alarm clock rings


(Perhaps "alarm bell" is more common over there?)


Lary


P.S. Thanks, Kathy...glad you enjoyed my haiga!

[Eisa]

Lary, I see a picture of you here, along with your beautiful haiga.

Congratulations!

(Follow the links, folks. Go to 'Archives,' then 2007. Click on Lary's name under haiga.)

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...a/Kitakubo.html



Or take this shortcut; here ya are...

http://www.poetrylives.com/SimplyHaiku/SHv...aser/index.html

Hey -- these are wonderful! I was especailly interested in the dream one.

Snow

[Eisa]

Nice work, Snow!
Those dream haiku feel more realistic
to me...and I'm sure they're familiar moments
to everyone!

Now, another challenge...with the alarm bell
(or "alarm clock"?) do you suppose that one
would see the waking process?
This would mean that the dream doesn't even
need to be mentioned!

running
along the cliff edge --
my alarm clock rings


(Perhaps "alarm bell" is more common over there?)


Lary


P.S. Thanks, Kathy...glad you enjoyed my haiga!

running
along the cliff edge --
my alarm clock rings

Way to go Lary! It's so much better to hint at it being a dream, with the alarm clock ringing. Wow! I think I'm getting it now! ... but in any kind of poem it's best not to be too obvious. (something I still find difficult at times)

So here is my other one

running
away from big waves --
my alarm clock rings

That's much more concise!

Thanks Lary

Snow

[Orion]

Snow,

Just stopping in to say I've enjoyed reading your verses & educational chats. Playing with the words and wording can be so much fun. Keep enjoying the wordplay (work).

Jan

[Eisa]

Snow,

Just stopping in to say I've enjoyed reading your verses & educational chats. Playing with the words and wording can be so much fun. Keep enjoying the wordplay (work).

Jan

Thanks Jan

Yes this has been fun to play with words. i'm glad you've enjoyed too.

Snow