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Shattered Illusions, Poem from a workshop, taken years ago, lead by the late August Wilson |
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May 17 09, 14:37
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Babylonian
Group: Platinum Member
Posts: 126
Joined: 29-December 08
From: Alamosa, Colorado USA
Member No.: 742
Real Name: vess quinlan
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:serendipity
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Shattered Illusions
August Wilson said, “I was young, in New York, and ambitious. Someone took me to a bar once frequented by the poet Dylan Thomas. I took to stopping by each afternoon to sip a beer and work on my latest poem.
My plan, it seemed, was working. Imagining creative vibrations emanating from the dingy walls, I would have sworn my poems were improving from a combination of hard work and osmosis.
Until the crusty old bartender, who had been there nearly forever and knew the great man, slapped a cardboard coaster on the bar and said”, 'Get that god damned pencil outa here. Dylan Thomas knew what to do in a bar.'
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Guest_ohsteve_*
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May 19 09, 15:58
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Guest
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Vess, I think there may be a problem here. If this is a verbatim quote from Mr Wilson then this could be construed as both plagiarism and a violation of copyright. I am not entirely sure how that works. I will ask Lori to look and see. Maybe if you paraphrased his words or parodied them would be ok, but I must say that this reads more as a story than a poem IMO. Steve
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May 19 09, 19:30
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Mosaic Master
Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,892
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep
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This is an original poem written by Vess, no infringing content within. Thx Vess for your PM!
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"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the RingsCollaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind. "I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. KanterNominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here! "Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.MM Award Winner
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May 20 09, 07:19
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 17-May 09
Member No.: 801
Writer of: Poetry
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Hi, vess, I hope that I didn't sound like I thought this was someone's other word besides your own. I didn't, but I know this story. I have yet to familiarize myself with the style/voice in which you write, so my comments will be less specific than if I had. Again, I find this a strong write. The one and only place that I found to stumble me was the last stanza. It comes across as a punch line that is told slightly off. In fact, the way that I tell jokes and that is why I don't tell them. The last two lines in particular do not flow easily. Perhaps because it comes so abruptly. In the second stanza you have the character happily sitting down to gather inspiration, then boom the last stanza removes it. Yes, shattered illusions, but I would have liked to see the illusions built a bit before the shattering. I can see an additional stanza between the two were the ego is built a bit more, the shattering would be more effective. I think the trouble with retelling a story is that often the first telling was the finest, just the right amount of words, etc. Now I come from Norwegians and we retell and retell. I think that what makes the additional tellings worth hearing is the added extra that wasn't in there to start with. A surprise. A fellow poet told a version of this story, but had Billy Collins sidle up to the bar and order a drink. A poem allows us vast leeway to get us to the heart of the matter without having to provide an exact copy. I hope these ideas simply make you stop and consider. On a whole I find this strong writing, but I stumbled at the end. I am curious as to how you felt when finishing it up. Did that part seem to be original to you or were you trying to tell it straight, like the story told to you? mayo
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May 22 09, 14:11
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Babylonian
Group: Platinum Member
Posts: 126
Joined: 29-December 08
From: Alamosa, Colorado USA
Member No.: 742
Real Name: vess quinlan
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:serendipity
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Hi Mayo,
I am sure this story got around simply because it is such a neat idea of a young poet trying to soak up a little of a great poets skill in such a manner.
Plagarism is theft as is copyright infringement. Being accused of theft in a public forum does not set well with me.
I told a stringer for the LA times in an interview once that I am not a creative writer but a creative reporter. I seldom, if ever, make something up. As, the late Gail Gardner, a famous cowboy poet and long time postmaster of Prescott, Arizona once said, "All my poems and stories are based on a slim foundation of fact."
Now, that is a direct quote from Gail's writing. According to Steve that is plagarism and a copyright violation. If Steve's accusation is MM policy, then I need to withdraw from the workshop because most of my writing would violate the law.
I was fortunate enough to spend most of my childhood with some of the old time cowboys. Many of them were great story tellers of original stories and could recite long classic poems from memory.
I am a crank about crediting the soursce whenever I use one of the stories I heard as a child. That makes some of the structure somewhat awkward. I have entire short stories in quotes because I insist on crediting the soursce.
That is the problem with the little poem but it is the only way I will do it.
You had heard the story. But for those who have not, August Wilson's story lives agian.
"The west is dead my friend But writer's hold the seed, And it will live again for those who read."
C. M Russell
Thanks Mayo,
Vess
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May 22 09, 21:29
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Mosaic Master
Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,892
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep
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There seems to be a HUGE misunderstanding going on here.
There is no plagiarism nor is there any copyright infringment as I stated earlier on in this thread. I can't be any clearer.
The question was put out there simply because of the notation put forth about quoting August Wilson. We understand that this is an original paraphrasing by Vess and as such, this thread was moved back into the public forum for further feedback. This is how things are done here at MM for the protection of both the writer and the site, when and IF that sort of question arises.
Vess, I enjoyed your PM and will be back to see if I can offer any input to this one over the weekend. Have you ever written of your experiences at the National Cowboy Poetry Gatherings? I find it fascinating.
~Cleo
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"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the RingsCollaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind. "I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. KanterNominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here! "Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.MM Award Winner
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May 23 09, 15:03
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 17-May 09
Member No.: 801
Writer of: Poetry
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QUOTE (vessq @ May 22 09, 22:16 ) Hi Mayo,
I am not much for writing poems about how the sun dappled through the trees and freckled the fragrant mat of pine needles as I trod upon their softness while wandering aimlessly among the benevolent pines.
Vess Thank God!!!!
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May 26 09, 22:54
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Babylonian
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 17-May 09
Member No.: 801
Writer of: Poetry
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Vess, I am familiar with that poem, "Sold Out". The final two stanzas is such a perfect description. "I follow, Absently mimicking his walk, And stand a post away. We don't speak of causes or reasons, Don't speak at all; We just stand there Leaning on the weathered poles, While shadows consume the pasture." I read that poem at least once a year, often times more. I didn't realize we had a celebrity in the house. I have always wondered if that is a picture of you in the book? mayo
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