The Final Curtain, April 17th Challenge Options

[Rhymer]

The Final Curtain.


The Apple Concert Center, lit by a subtle, pastel glow
Reflecting on the now silent audience seated down below
Was a bastion of culture. It had come as no surprise
To know, that when first built, upon an open pasture rise,
It would fast become a landmark. But this fateful year
It’s days were done. Patrons were moved to shed a tear:
Or take a nap, as they reflected on its fate and awaited
The Conductor’s entry. It’s demise, for long debated,
Had been sealed when, with its annual budget trimmed,
The final curtain fell and house lights slowly dimmed.

Rhymer.
(Found my way here at last! Thanks to Alan)

[Alan]

Dear Denis,

When I first started writing poetry, I was totally insistent upon initial Caps for every line. Somewhere years later I changed, and now in my writing I abhor them.

I mention this because in reading this poem, I found the smooth flow of your excellent enjambment severely fractured by the caps, oh, and by I think one not needed comma.

So I present “my” version below. I hae gone back and reversed years of my own initioal caps, and have made this suggestion to quite a number of poets. Mostly, I should be honest and tell you, they have rejected my suggestion !

So if you too want to stay trad, feel free to tell me so.

Apart from that, this is an excellent word-picture, and the rhyming is so natural I had to actually go and look for the rhyme words !

One last thing - go back into your post and add in the title line some asterisks to indicate what level of crit you are seeking.

Love
Alan

The Apple Concert Center, lit by a subtle, pastel glow
reflecting on the now silent audience seated down below
was a bastion of culture. It had come as no surprise
to know, that when first built, upon an open pasture rise,
it would fast become a landmark. But this fateful year
it’s days were done. Patrons were moved to shed a tear:
or take a nap, as they reflected on its fate and awaited
the Conductor’s entry. It’s demise, for long debated,
had been sealed when, with its annual budget trimmed,
the final curtain fell, and house lights slowly dimmed.

[Rhymer]

Hi Alan,

I much appreciate your taking time to critique my piece, and take note of your comments and suggestions. I guess my manner of writing with every line beginning with a capital, harks back to my (long ago) school days when our English Master - thought an ancient even then as WW II was raging at the time and he, as were all our Masters, were too old for military service, and most had been brought back out of retirement to teach us Grammar School boys. There’s much more I could write on them, and although most of my remarks would be complimentary, being a rebellious teenager, they were accepted as competent but considered incredibly strict. I always remember how split infinitives would send our Mr. Whittaker off on a lengthy rant! Lol.

However, your point is understood and I do sometimes leave the capitals except for the start of a new sentence - obviously - but when I do, I tend use a ‘tab’ space to indent at the start of the line when doing so. As you know, habit is very hard to break, but there are times when I can be cajoled or persuaded to become “modern’, despite my being uneasy about it though and habit generally prevails. Incidentally I find no fault with the way you ‘redressed’ my piece, which is quite acceptable by me..

A couple of years back, I had a lengthy, ongoing argument with my publisher over this self same matter. She capitulated in the end as - at the time - I was not prepared to accept her manner of editing. Hers also included lower case for words such as “I” and pertinent nouns which I would not countenance under any circumstances, and almost no punctuation whatsoever! I’m not a stubborn person - just hard to change, being possessed of firmly entrenched principles! Lol.

Punctuation and commas (my dear wife is insistent I use too many) are another thing. Unfortunately my biggest handicap in this field, is my difficulty in ‘seeing’ them after they’ve bene inserted. In my process of editing, I read as I want the piece to be read by others, but my changes are not always reflective of the newly required punctuation in/of the changed text. Hope I’m being clear here? When I regard the final draft as acceptable, then I sometimes fail to make the all important removal of commas, colons etc.. I had noticed the ‘extra’ comma, but editing on ths site is yet another hurdle I have to overcome. Doubtless it is easier than I surmise, but recently, time is also of the essence - my wife has been suffering a severe concussion this past two months (slowly recovering), so household chores and duties have prevailed, and that’s my excuse! Lol!

Again, thank you for your interest and suggestions. Denis aka Rhymer.

[Eisa]

Hi Denis

Welcome to Herme's Homilies - I'm glad you found your way here. It's good to meet you!

I am interested to read Alan's comments and your reply.

When I started writing I used to start each line with a capital, but I suppose in time I felt more comfortable beginning each sentence with a capital.
However, I have noticed that there are numerous poems (not just rhyming) chosen by editors for publishing these days, that begin each line with a capital - which makes you think, eh!!? ... and with some poems with no punctuation or capitals, it does seem that anything goes, these days.

The thing I am wondering about your poem is that I would like to see the lines evened out a bit which would help the meter. At the moment you have varying syllables in each line as I've pointed out below:

The Apple Concert Center, lit by a subtle, pastel glow 15
Reflecting on the now silent audience seated down below 16
Was a bastion of culture. It had come as no surprise 15
To know, that when first built, upon an open pasture rise, 14
It would fast become a landmark. But this fateful year 14
It’s days were done. Patrons were moved to shed a tear: 12
Or take a nap, as they reflected on its fate and awaited 15
The Conductor’s entry. It’s demise, for long debated, 14

Had been sealed when, with its annual budget trimmed, 12
The final curtain fell and house lights slowly dimmed. 12

Take or toss anything I have said - and I hope to see you here often now that you have found your way.

Snow

[Rhymer]

Hi Eisa

Your point about evening out the metre is one which, on occasion, I have found somewhat controversial. Not only for composing my personal poetry, but also for a number of poets I’ve read. I note your point however, and understand your reasoning, but to hark back again to my long ago, school days, we were often told that rules were only put in place to guide. When it suited, they could be broken or at the very least bent. It was always impressed upon our young minds that a poem which scanned well, should not necessarily be constrained by rigid adherence to a specified number of ‘beats’ in every line. Perhaps the jury is and will remain out on this matter, as I have known and read many ‘good’ poems, that diverge greatly in this aspect.

Personally, I find the number of “beats” to a line, does not concern me greatly, if the ‘scanning’ of same, reads smoothly. On the other hand, for me, punctuation must and does play an essential part in any composition, if the reader is to get some direction from the author. Unfortunately I am not the greatest with its application, as I have found my understanding of what was once shown as the correct punctuation to use, battered beyond belief by the ‘modernity’ of some present day writing. (Incidentally, correct spelling was the prime necessity!)

Should there be one form of rhyme which I feel should and must adhere strictly to a regular beat, and not be allowed to fluctuate, it is perhaps the limerick which, to be successful, in my opinion, should remain true to the expected norm or it fails miserably.

Believe you me, I appreciate your comments, but my conclusion is that, were I to ‘even up’ the lines, as you suggest, some if not all of its spontaneity and flow would be lost or at least constricted or altered to a degree which would require a rewrite. When I accept a ‘challenge’ it is always the first inspiration that grabs me and allows me to write as I do. My primary intention is to write something which possesses a smidgen of rationale when read. Editing and tweaking are kept to a minimum.

I am well aware I am no ‘expert’, nor do I presume to be qualified in these matters and try to keep an open mind. And yes, perhaps I am flawed in my thinking, but when one reaches my age, it is, and would be a very difficult task to change the ‘errant’ ways of a lifetime. I have trouble enough staying on course as it is, without complicating my life further! Lol! Chances are I would prefer not to write at all, which might disappoint some of my more enthusiastic followers, who enjoy a ‘good read’ and have little time for the rules! Furthermore, were I and other writers bounden to follow every rule that is was regarded as ‘law’ when the rules of grammar and poetry construction, were first laid down? Chances are there would be fewer ‘great’ poets around today.

Denis.

[Larry]

Hi Denis,

Being new to this site, you probably do not realize that when you post your poem in Herme's, the challenge words do not have to be used anymore. No big deal that you kept them in your piece.

I, like you, learned a long time ago to begin each line with a cap but have since stopped doing so because of one simple reason: Sentence Structure. If one has to look at the punctuation when reading a piece to ascertain where one sentence stops and the other begins, I feel that the caps beginning each line take away from the flow of the poem. On first read of your poem, I thought the author of the poem was "Reflecting" on the silent audience and then realized that it was the glow of lights at the Center. This was caused by the cap at the beginning of L2.

As far as the metrical portion of your poem, I have no problem with that because you didn't state what type poem it was and when I saw the uneveness of the structure, surmised it to be rhyming free verse which has no set meter. If you had stated that your poem was one of any number of structured pieces, sonnet, rondeau, villanelle, etc. (there are a lot of them with set metrical patterns and rhyme scheme - not just Limericks), the meter maid in me would have been activated and "ta da, ta da, ta da, away I'd go". Anyway, your meter is fine with me as it is.

However, I do have one small bit of critique and it pertains to the "reflecting" in L2 and "reflected" in L7. Surely you can find an analogous word to utilize in describing this. Such as "L7 - Or take a nap, as they pondered its fate...". It is a small nit to pick but it was the only thing which bothered me in this beautiful nostalgic poem.

As always, take or toss. Thanks and welcome to the best site for poetry/prose/free verse/etc. on the internet.

Larry

[Rhymer]

Hi Larry,

Dropped in to see your latest comments and yes, I acknowlege your point, admirably put, regarding the use of capitals. Having seen the 'error of my ways' I am seriously going to consider changing them in future. My library of already written pieces (around two thousand of many different styles) will not be seeing alterations - yet! Lol! I'm far too busy with gardening to which Spring has allowed me to return!

Must admit I never realised - I'm too dumb to be living at times, and especially so when a new site has been found and investigated quickly, with little or no investigation on my part, carried out - that the intention of the "Herme's Homilies" critique section as it appears, would prefer an edited and perhaps more professional piece than that which I simply 'moved over'. This after reading the suggestion made by JLY. The word 'contemplated' might well have been substituted for 'reflected' as I am never happy with repetitive words or phrases unless the poem is intended to be written in that manner. My excuse is that I dashed off the piece for the challenge, and sloppy workmanship resulted! Lol!

I seldom write in what I call a 'restricted' or 'formal' form whch strict beat rhythm requires. It seldom suits my mien so to do, as the grammarian within might insist! Much of my writing is what I term 'doggerel', for it is found far too restrictive for me to write in a form that is so restrictive. I have written poems in this manner, and will at times, do so, but it does tend to hold me back. However, this being said, I do love reading 'quality' sonnets and other poetry that abides to a strict tempo. But writing them is far too restrictive to my free thinking spirit. Shakespeare, amongst others, was the writer of same, I most admire, and I am neither brazen nor brash enough to joust with his ilk! Ergo, I leave the field to him and those more qualified in this field, who enjoy the challenge of writing in this manner.

One small point I make before ending my comment. I came to this site filled with apprehension. Knowing but little of the site and its many facets I, like many others, detest the 'come-back' diatribes one often garners. Having encountered some of the 'in your face' approach many 'critics' employ when they find a neophyte poet, they can bully! (I use the term 'critic' in its broadest sense, for there are few true 'critics' to be found on the Internet - or so I have discovered). However, to date, courtesy, helpful assistance and polite direction in the critiques I've received - as they apply to my writing - are all that I've seen. By my observations, I am now convinced and reassured that any 'hateful' rhetorical commentary appears to be absent on this site. Perhaps now I can relax and be less confrontational myself, for I am fully aware that I can be and sometimes am, a tad vitriolic in my responses to those who get me riled up! Another trait common to the older man perhaps?

As I tell folks. I'm not really a stubborn (sod) person. Just firmly convinced I'm right,and hard to convince otherwise - as my children will aver! Lol.

Thanks again to all, for what you are. Rhymer aka Denis.

[Eisa]

Hi Denis

I see you have met the internet critique bullies - they get everywhere! It never ceases to amaze me that people who love poetry can be so cruel. I was once told my poem belonged in the deep end of the midden!
We don't have bullies here and if we do have problems, they are dealt with! comments are made as suggestions only and it's up to the individual whether they use the suggestions. At the end of the day it's your poem to make changes you are comfortable with.

By the way, I don't know whether you've read the rules of this forum, but each member may post a new work every two days providing they then post two critiques of others' works in the same forum. This way everyone's work gets comments.

I look forward to reading more of your poems

Snow

[Rhymer]

Yes Eisa
I have read the rules (skimmed perhaps is the operative word) and have intended to add my personal thoughts to works of other poets, offered for critiquing. As yet these are sadly lacking due perhaps, to some degree in my innate shyness when it comes to critiquing work of others. To paraphrase a saying I remember, which was to the effect that one should walk a mile in their shoes, before you complain or find fault, no matter how delicately it might be carried out. I guess I walk as though I'm walking on broken glass on poetry sites for let's face it, we have our own way of writing and lord help those who disagree unless they tread very gently. It always takes me some effort to jump in, and right now, I've got two - what I think are valid - excuses for taking it one step at a time.

Gardening is one ( I possess two acres) but this is not the most time consuming of all. althuogh it does take up a lot of my time now spring has finally arrived. By far the most time consuming efforts are ensuring my wife of many years, recovers from the serious concussion she sustained over eight weeks ago. I live on tenterhooks from dawn to dusk and seemingly, overnight too! Not something to wish on one's worst enemies!

I fear I shall be absent for much of the next week or so, unless she improves more rapidly than she does at present. Our ages are not helpful either! I shall and do briefly drop in to MM to see what's happening from time to time, but seldom have time to write as I would wish. Much time is spent on reviving my housekeeping skills - most successfully my wife tells me - but that may be her ploy to ensure I shoulder more of the housework, instead of being enjoyably stuck for hours at my computer(s)! Ha ha. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but watch for tell-tale signs that's she's taking advantage of my kind and generous heart? Lol.

Must fly now as I hear her stirring. Thanks again for your input. Denis.

[Alan]

Dear Denis,

"To paraphrase a saying I remember, which was to the effect that one should walk a mile in their shoes, before you complain or find fault, no matter how delicately it might be carried out."

I wonder if you have concatenated the meaning of critique with criticise ? The latter is to be avoided. but to critique means to give an appraisal, and can be a positive as negative.

When I do it, I often say I am trying to help the facets of a beautiful jewel be revealed, or I offer advice to be taken or tossed (T or T).

A critique can be quite short, indicating where some line/s were particularly touching or effective, or some puncts can be suggested. Even spelling or word mistakes are useful to have feedback on.

Love
Alan