Morning in the Woods... (revised), Haiku Options

[Judi]

Correction

Morning in the Woods
sunrise, dew on leaves, birds chirp
today now begins



Morning in the Woods
sun rises, dew on leaves, birds chirp
another day begins

Judith Labriola

[Terocon101]

Hi Judi,

I still find haikus amazing, so much can happen in three lines. I think they are the form to suit the hectic pace of the modern lifestyle.
Your birth of a new day is a glorious image. Thank you for putting it in my head as I missed the real one this morning.
I'm no expert on haiku but I know there are many forms and variation of it. The only one I have used myself is what I call the seasonal 5,7,5. So on my ignorant assumption that this is what you were aiming for, then your haiku exceeds the syllable count by two.
My reason for commenting though was not to point that out.
In L1 "Morning in the woods"I was thinking it might be more dramatic to start with "Darkness in the woods" then the second line has a more of a spectacular illumination when "Sunrise(s), dew on leaves, birds chirp" and finally "Another day lives".
The only reason I dissected your poem was because I've seen others do it in other critiques. I feel very nervous about doing this to anybodies writing as this is kind of new to me. I hope I was helpful in some way.

Terry

The more you judge, the less you love.

* Honore de Balzac

[laryalee]

Hi Judi,
what a wonderful image you have captured!
And what an idyllic place to be...brings a sigh...

Now, in the haiku sense, it feels somewhat choppy.
Also, these three:
morning / sun rises / day begins
all seem to indicate the same thing?

So perhaps this could be reduced/concentrated.
As an example, suppose it starts with the location
and the birds...add the dew, and then the sunrise
becomes the "aha"?

forest birdsong
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

Sometimes trying to put too much into a haiku can dilute
its impact. For example, the birds might be worth a haiku
on their own. Then another option could be...

forest leaves --
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

Or are "leaves" too obvious? What about the type
of tree?

forest maple --
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

Now, the focus zooms down from the forest
to one maple leaf, one dewdrop...

There are many haiku possibilities with this lovely scene...
I just wanted to give you a couple of examples!


Lary

[Judi]

Hi Judi,

I still find haikus amazing, so much can happen in three lines. I think they are the form to suit the hectic pace of the modern lifestyle.
Your birth of a new day is a glorious image. Thank you for putting it in my head as I missed the real one this morning.
I'm no expert on haiku but I know there are many forms and variation of it. The only one I have used myself is what I call the seasonal 5,7,5. So on my ignorant assumption that this is what you were aiming for, then your haiku exceeds the syllable count by two.
My reason for commenting though was not to point that out.
In L1 "Morning in the woods"I was thinking it might be more dramatic to start with "Darkness in the woods" then the second line has a more of a spectacular illumination when "Sunrise(s), dew on leaves, birds chirp" and finally "Another day lives".
The only reason I dissected your poem was because I've seen others do it in other critiques. I feel very nervous about doing this to anybodies writing as this is kind of new to me. I hope I was helpful in some way.

Terry

The more you judge, the less you love.

* Honore de Balzac

Thanks for giving me your take on understanding the different types of Haikus.

I was not aware that I exceeded the count by 2?????

Here is how I counted...


Morn/ing /in/ the/ Woods=5
sun /rises,/ dew/ on/ leaves,/ birds/ chirp=7
an/other/ day be/gins=5

I will play around with another way to say this ..
Can you show me how I exceed by 2??? I may be doing it wrong and don't realize it! Thanks, Judi

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Judi.

WELCOME to our new forum!

I am fond of Lary's suggestion of:

forest birdsong
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

and also feel that morning/sun rises/day begins are basically repeats of the same image, so is there something, a feeling you can envision at dawn that can be incorporated into this pretty image. We know the sun is rising, we know it's the woods/forest, we hear birdsong....

Perhaps the opening could be something like:

forest dawn
a dewdrop catches
birdsong reflection

I took a differet approach than Lary in that I tried to show the dew as a reflection to tie into the birdsong. I'm trying to show a relationship between the two....

BTW, I count this as:

Morn/ing /in/ the/ Woods =5
sun /ri/ses,/ dew/ on/ leaves,/ birds/ chirp =8 (I count rises as 2 beats)
an/oth/er/ day be/gins =6 (I count another as 3 beats) for a total of 19.

You could also say 'Wooded morning' or forest morning' or forest dawn'

Enjoyed this serene haiku!
~Cleo

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Morning in the Woods
sun rises, dew on leaves, birds chirp
another day begins

Judith Labriola

Dear Judi, this is a lovely poem, written in the Western way, where we try very hard to find the right words to convey exactly what we mean. But I am afraid it isn't haiku. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think you deserve honesty. -red face-

Please, read what Lary and I have said to others, so you will know what I mean. There are also lots anlotsanlots of links... Please don't be discouraged by my tactlessness. This new way of writing is a real adventure!

Hugs, Kathy.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Judi -

I'll await your feedback to ours to guage your thoughts. In the meanwhile, another idea I'd like to stress (and I'll plan to add this to the forum description too as it reads in Herme's) - is that if a form inspires you to create a work of art but in the learning process you find you cannot adhere to all the params (for various reasons) - we can still post that work (and encourage all to do so) and use the phrase ' inspired by the form x' so critiquers will understand and appreciate your effort and not focus the feedback on specifically those parameters of that form.

It's like when I've read a haiku or sonnet that inspired me to write a poem of my own but I chose not to follow certain aspects of the form (i.e. its meter or rhyme scheme etc.), I post it as a poem inspired by that form, so feedback would be focused on the imagery, message etc. and not the parameters (constraints I find in many forms).

I was mentioning this also in Don's thread too.

Cheers
~Cleo

[Judi]

Hi Judi.

WELCOME to our new forum!

I am fond of Lary's suggestion of:

forest birdsong
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

and also feel that morning/sun rises/day begins are basically repeats of the same image, so is there something, a feeling you can envision at dawn that can be incorporated into this pretty image. We know the sun is rising, we know it's the woods/forest, we hear birdsong....

Perhaps the opening could be something like:

forest dawn
a dewdrop catches
birdsong reflection

I took a differet approach than Lary in that I tried to show the dew as a reflection to tie into the birdsong. I'm trying to show a relationship between the two....

BTW, I count this as:

Morn/ing /in/ the/ Woods =5
sun /ri/ses,/ dew/ on/ leaves,/ birds/ chirp =8 (I count rises as 2 beats)
an/oth/er/ day be/gins =6 (I count another as 3 beats) for a total of 19.

You could also say 'Wooded morning' or forest morning' or forest dawn'

Enjoyed this serene haiku!
~Cleo

Oh, I see what I did wrong now...thanks for showing me Lore...Judi

[Judi]

Morning in the Woods
sun rises, dew on leaves, birds chirp
another day begins

Judith Labriola

Dear Judi, this is a lovely poem, written in the Western way, where we try very hard to find the right words to convey exactly what we mean. But I am afraid it isn't haiku. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think you deserve honesty. -red face-

Please, read what Lary and I have said to others, so you will know what I mean. There are also lots anlotsanlots of links... Please don't be discouraged by my tactlessness. This new way of writing is a real adventure!

Hugs, Kathy.

Actually, to be blunt I can't count, LOL....sigh

anyway, I like the shorter ones...I was in a hurry yesterday...I should never post when I don't have enough time to look over what I am posting...THEN I forgot I had already posted here and posted here again...oh my...anyway. tomorrow will be better I promise. Judi

[Judi]

Hi Judi,

I still find haikus amazing, so much can happen in three lines. I think they are the form to suit the hectic pace of the modern lifestyle.
Your birth of a new day is a glorious image. Thank you for putting it in my head as I missed the real one this morning.
I'm no expert on haiku but I know there are many forms and variation of it. The only one I have used myself is what I call the seasonal 5,7,5. So on my ignorant assumption that this is what you were aiming for, then your haiku exceeds the syllable count by two.
My reason for commenting though was not to point that out.
In L1 "Morning in the woods"I was thinking it might be more dramatic to start with "Darkness in the woods" then the second line has a more of a spectacular illumination when "Sunrise(s), dew on leaves, birds chirp" and finally "Another day lives".
The only reason I dissected your poem was because I've seen others do it in other critiques. I feel very nervous about doing this to anybodies writing as this is kind of new to me. I hope I was helpful in some way.

Terry

The more you judge, the less you love.

* Honore de Balzac

I humbly apologize...You were right.....sorry about that...mea culpa! Judi

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Well Judi, as you will see, haiku is not about counting syllables. It is more about capturing a moment, setting off a cascade of the reader's emotions...

We speak of the haiku spirit, and the Aha.... lots of things, but not syllable counts, generally. (Though specialists do discuss them.) Many haiku are shorter than 17 (it's said that 12 is nearer to the Japanese,) some are longer, and a few people still write in 5/7/5. But 5/7/5 takes a lot of skill to pull it off without fillers and overcrowding.

Hope this helps.

Try to forget everything you thought you knew about haiku and start afresh to learn about this ancient traditional poetry. It is SO worth it.

I am a student for the rest of my life, and it wouldn't surprise me to be no closer to mastery then than I am now.

[AMETHYST]

Hi Judi,

I smiled at the loveliness of this. I am just a beginner and sitting right beside you and many other members learning, practicing and stumbling along the way. I just wanted to give a cheer for your attempt, I especially liked the change from sunrises (which I think is 3 syllables) to sunrise, which makes it more defined and in the moment.

I also felt that Lary's suggestion of

forest birdsong
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

Works well. L1, combines the image of woods from L1/birds chirping from L2 then gives room for L2 to enhance the image of sunrise glinting on a dewdrop ... a lovely image.

Keep these coming Judi, and hopefully I will be inspired by the beauty of your creative inner mind. Thank you!

Best Wishes, Liz

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Judi, I didn't see your revision till now. Sorry.

Morning in the Woods
sunrise, dew on leaves, birds chirp
today now begins

There are two things here that we can work on.

1 There are too many images
2 stating the same thing more than once.

haiku is short. Every word, and the spaces between the words, is important.


Morning in the Woods
sunrise, dew on leaves, birds chirp
today now begins

'Morning,' 'sunrise,' and 'today now begins' say the same thing. So you have 'in the woods,' 'dew on leaves,' and 'birds chirp.'
We know about dew and birds, don't we? We know that chirps come from a bird. On the other hand, by stipulating the sound you limit the sounds to one or two kinds of bird, so the image is impeded when the reader tries to take it in.
Dew falls everywhere. If this is the woods, it is enough to show dew, and it will trigger all sorts of dew experiences, different for each reader.

So what is the image or feeling you want to convey? Renewal? Freshness? Peacefulness? Something else? Wonder, for instance?

Lary suggested that you focus on one thing. The dew. Thus we go from a big picture to a small part of it. We change our perspective, in a psychological sense as well as distance-wise. The tiny thing can show the essence.

What did Lary say?

I just looked, and Lary said the same as I have. -red face- Here's some of it:

...perhaps this could be reduced/concentrated.
As an example, suppose it starts with the location
and the birds...add the dew, and then the sunrise
becomes the "aha"?

forest birdsong
a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

See how 'birdsong' enables the reader to decide what it sounds like? 'Forest birdsong' puts us right there... our imagination, based on past experiences, will kick in by itself. I might hear Australian birds, but yours will no doubt sound different to mine. My kind of forest also comes to life around me. The smells, the humidity or lack of it, the spring of resilience in mulch beneath my feet, a chill in the air, perhaps, oh and there is a distant waterfall...

We focus on a dewdrop. Just one. It catches the sunrise. Now we have it all.

Lary juxtaposed 'forest birdsong' with sunrise in the dewdrop.

The fragment is 'forest birdsong,' which orientates us to the subject. A pause is implied, and in Japanese a 'cutting word' goes here. It's a kind of spoken punctuation, as if we said "dash." Some people still put it in. I do, more often than not. The phrase is

a dewdrop catches
the sunrise

Which runs over two lines. The whole thing is beautiful... I get a little surprise to see this sparkle, and if I look closely, it looks a bit pink. There's a sense of wonder, and my heart lifts. All this in so few words. This is the haiku spirit, and it has little or nothing to do with the number of syllables it takes to make the poem.

What's more, everyone else will get something different from it. So haiku is designed for the reader, as a kind of gift.

Have another look at what Lary wrote, and see if you can write another one.

Hope this is helpful.

K