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an American haiku (...the oak...) |
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Jul 20 09, 05:35
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
Writer of: Poetry
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arid summer - the oak by the septic tank dips its roots
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Jul 21 09, 02:47
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Creative Chieftain
Group: Centurion
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From: Australia
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Real Name: John
Writer of: Poetry
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A good haiku; seasonal; present tense.
arid summer - >>>> WHERE? the oak by the septic tank >>>>>WHAT? dips its roots >>> WHEN?
I do not understand: why the low syllable count?
John
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Jul 21 09, 03:26
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
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John,
Thanks for responding. Where is good question indeed, I guess I could specify a location. Though it's got to be a place where there are oaks and most probably in a rural environment, where there are septic tanks rather than city sewage. I've thought that enough for the reader to pick his/her own such location, assuming the task shouldn't be a hard one for Europeans or North Americans. (Should I change "oak" to something more local, like "magnolia"?) Yep, L2 is disgusting, yep tree roots damaging septic tank is a reality for some, and an unpleasant one too...L3; I don't understand the question when...Go over any Japanese haiku (or even some American haiku, actually). What you will find is a kigo, which translates as season word (ki=season; go=word...yep, I actually speak & read Japanese.) In the summer should be answer enough within the confines of the haiku. Or am I to specify that the roots broke through the thanks at 17:02 GMT?
Why the low syllable-count? Because I am aiming at the concise, minimalist, sparse use of vocabulary, accordingly to the Japanese tradition. If you really want a proper Japanese count, then count your short vowels as one syllable and your long vowels and diphthongs as two syllables...
I'll consider. Thanks for replying (it's the first actual response to a poem posted I've received in a week), it's appreciated.
Mark
Here's a quick one in the 5-7-5, though I guess it will be called a senryu here (a distinction neither the Japanese masters nor the Haiku Society of America makes):
a Chinese couple mollycoddles its poodle with instant noodles
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Jul 21 09, 05:18
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Creative Chieftain
Group: Centurion
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From: Australia
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Real Name: John
Writer of: Poetry
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G'day, Mark.
I'm of the opinion that this is a good Haiku.
It fulfils the basics.seasonal; present tense.
And the three lines follow the requirments of:
Where. Line one. A tick. arid summer - What. Line two. A tick. the oak by the septic tank When. Line three. A tick. dips its roots
arid summer - the oak by the septic tank dips its roots
A good haiku, Mate.
Regards,
John
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Jul 21 09, 06:37
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
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Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
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John,
Thanks for coming back. I'm glad to hear you like this one.
Mark
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Jul 21 09, 08:59
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Group: Gold Member
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Real Name: Peggy Harwood
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:just wandered in
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Hi marc,
Interesting "poodle/noodle" senryu. If you're going to be true to Japanese tradition on one front, shouldn't you follow through on all fronts? Correct me if you know something I don't, but I believe a rhyme in a haiku/senryu is a "no-no." I did do rather much research on this question last year and came to the conclusion that it is taboo.
Whatcha think?
Peggy
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Jul 21 09, 09:10
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
Writer of: Poetry
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Thanks for the visit, Peggy. Nope, I am not advocating rhymes in a haiku. This poodle/noodle is only a joke, which is why I've posted it in a comment rather than giving it its own thread. A response to the actual post of this thread would have been appreciated. Never mind. Mark QUOTE (Peggy Carpenter Harwood @ Jul 21 09, 20:59 ) Hi marc,
Interesting "poodle/noodle" senryu. If you're going to be true to Japanese tradition on one front, shouldn't you follow through on all fronts? Correct me if you know something I don't, but I believe a rhyme in a haiku/senryu is a "no-no." I did do rather much research on this question last year and came to the conclusion that it is taboo.
Whatcha think?
Peggy
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Jul 21 09, 14:45
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Group: Gold Member
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Real Name: Peggy Harwood
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Referred By:just wandered in
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Hi Marc,
I'm sorry I offended you by critiquing a "joke" you were making. I assure you it didn't appear to be one.
I am also sorry I offended you by not critiquing the "American Haiku" as well.
Thank you for sincerely saying "Never mind." That's what we need in this world is more courtesy.
As for the "American Haiku," I've never heard of such a haiku. What is an American haiku? I call what you wrote a "senryu." As for myself, I prefer a 5-7-5 senryu.
Peggy
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Jul 21 09, 20:52
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
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Peggy, The American haiku...I've posted these links on other threads, but you may have missed them: http://www.hsa-haiku.org/http://www.modernhaiku.org/essays/AmericanHaikuFuture.htmlhttp://www.ahapoetry.com/haiartjr.htmOffended? Nope, that's not exactly it. Frustrated, perhaps. Disappointed with the responses received in the last two weeks, yes. I have removed a poem that did not receive any response in eight days, an experimental one which I feel (I might be mistaken here) was probably ignored because it didn't fit into any MM category...I removed a haibun which also didn't appear to have its proper place here. Other posts have become tautologies over terminology with little response (some with none) to the poem I had posted. How would you feel? Frankly, I feel no longer inclined to post my poetry here. Mark
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Jul 21 09, 21:17
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Group: Gold Member
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Real Name: Peggy Harwood
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Referred By:just wandered in
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Hi Marc,
I wouldn't be discouraged in mid-summer. I'd wait for cooler weather when folks go indoors or like me getting ready for a vacation. I've been very, very busy and off the computer a lot, as I'm preparing a trip to Ireland. It's summer. People are working in yards and gardens or out of town to my way of thinking.
Hope you don't quit!
Peggy
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Jul 21 09, 21:53
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
Writer of: Poetry
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Peggy,
It's always summer here, but monsoon keeps me indoor.
Have a wonderful trip to Ireland (and Limerick Junction)!
Mark
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Jul 21 09, 21:58
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 698
Joined: 29-May 06
From: US East Coast
Member No.: 185
Real Name: Peggy Harwood
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:just wandered in
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Hi Marc,
Sounds like you live near Vancouver! They have lots of rain.
Peggy
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Jul 22 09, 03:33
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 201
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Canada
Member No.: 784
Real Name: Marc-Andre Germain
Writer of: Poetry
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Hi Peggy,
I used to live in Vancouver, almost two decades ago. I live in Thailand now.
Mark
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Guest_prerna bala_*
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Jul 22 09, 05:18
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Guest
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you have a season which is summer, and the Oak which is a tree that needs a lot of water and the septic tank, which is as good as a description can get to the kind of water, and the thought that where there is a need for water any water is good enough, philisophical i think , a reflection on something similar given below -
in my native language there is a saying which translates to : "In grasslands - where there are hardly any trees, even the castor oil plant seems a juggernaut!
if you are aiming at minimalistic then you can pare off the "the"s in the second line i suppose and then the "its" as the meaning is implied, without the "its"
arid summer - oak by septic tank dips roots
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