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Succubus, English Sonnet |
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 4 10, 07:37
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Guest
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Succubus
Beware these eyes: grey-steel and poet-wise, they see beneath your soul and find the faults, the frailties which define. These eyes chastise the secret “you”, however many vaults you built inside: no harbour here to hide from retribution. Other lashes pale beside the ones I wield; old sins of pride laid bare with every blink – assassin veils. The centres drown: dark pits to pull you down to Hell’s damnation. Light has lost this fight. An inner Dark reclaims the victor’s crown surrendered once but won back here tonight. Such bloodless battles serve to prove my claim that Hell and Earth are only one domain.
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Replies
(1 - 17)
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Aug 4 10, 08:31
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,446
Joined: 16-October 06
From: UK
Member No.: 298
Real Name: Alan McAlpine Douglas
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori/Eisa/loads of old friends
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Dear Jim,
Having just come from your post on Vin Egre, I find myself in familiar territory. Sonnets and sex, a heady combination !
I have only one offering. that 2nd line immediately struck me as a bit tame, and the more often I read the rest, I still feel that.
they see beneath your soul and find the faults
My offering would be : they suck within your soul and find the faults
or at least :
they seek beneath your soul and find the faults
Love Alan
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Aug 5 10, 10:02
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 862
Joined: 25-June 04
From: Ohio, USA
Member No.: 70
Real Name: Susan Eckenrode
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Merlin
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Hi Jim... a very thought provoking piece. I see little here that needs attention in my view. I did have some small quibbles with the following and offer some suggestions you might consider if you feel they are helpful.
The centres drown: dark pits to pull you down I would spell 'centers' but perhaps 'centres' is regional spelling?)
to Hell’s damnation. Light has lost this fight. The several long I words (light, fight, tonight) in a short span are a little distracting for me. How about something like: "snuffing out the light"
An inner Dark reclaims the victor’s crown surrendered once but won back here tonight. "won back" seems a tad weak. maybe surrendered once, recaptured here tonight"
Such bloodless battles serve to prove my claim that Hell and Earth are only one domain. Love the strong couplet!
just some thoughts, Sue
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Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it. MM Award Winner
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Aug 6 10, 09:53
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 532
Joined: 4-September 03
From: Northwest Coast
Member No.: 29
Writer of: Poetry
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Hi Jim,
this is a wicked gem. Nicely spun. From my perspective, this could be dubbed 'Incubus'. I have no qualms with anything in you lines. You are very talented. If you decide to ammend the line that Sue has pointed to, I'm offering 'regained'.
Great dark poem.
my best,
Michelle
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Aug 9 10, 12:55
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 698
Joined: 29-May 06
From: US East Coast
Member No.: 185
Real Name: Peggy Harwood
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:just wandered in
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Hello Jim,
I haven't been on MM much of late and have never met you that I can recall. Glad to meet you!!! You are quite a sophistocated and accomplished poet in my humble opinion. You've written a wonderful dark sonnet here about evil, lusty night creatures. I enjoyed it very much!!!
Beware these eyes: grey-steel and poet-wise,(A sentence ends after "wise." Need period.) they see beneath your soul and find the faults,(Need to capitalize "they") the frailties which define. These eyes chastise the secret “you”, however many vaults(semi-colon instead of comma) you built inside: no harbour here to hide from retribution. Other lashes pale(How can one "wield' an eye "lash"? Please explain.) beside the ones I wield; old sins of pride laid bare with every blink – assassin veils.(Are you calling eye lashes assassins veils?) The centres drown: dark pits to pull you down ("Centres" of what?) to Hell’s damnation. Light has lost this fight. An inner Dark reclaims the victor’s crown surrendered once but won back here tonight. Such bloodless battles serve to prove my claim( A fight with a succubus would seem to me to be "bloody" instead of your "bloodless.")
My comments are just suggestions. Use or disregard. Either is up to you.
Peggy that Hell and Earth are only one domain
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 9 10, 16:57
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Guest
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Hi, Alan, I originally had 'search beneath your soul' to qualify the later 'find' but opted for the softer 'see' to emphasise the 'bloodless' nature of the victory - this succubus didn't have to work very hard -and for the assonance with 'beneath'. This should be seen as a soliloquy, a performance piece, so I wanted to use all the tricks of rhetorics I could to strengthen that element. While 'seek' would seem to fit that intent, I don't have any 'k/c' sounds around to pick up on and it does suggest an element of effort I wanted to avoid. I am grateful for the time you took to read and comment, and I do thank you for your suggestions, but feel that I have to stay with 'see' at least in this version - who knows what tomorow will bring? Jim
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 9 10, 17:03
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Guest
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Hi, JLY,
thanks for stopping by, always appreciated. I can concede your point on 'veil/veils' but there are two eyes and two sets of lashes, I feel that if I use the singular form there it would distract more than the 's' intrusion, particularly given that this should be 'performed'. Jim
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 9 10, 17:18
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Guest
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Hi, Sue, nice to see you in here, much appreciated. 'Centres' as a regional variation - suppose you could call it that it's UK English, we've been using it for a while now. The long 'i's', as I said to Alan, this is intended as a performance piece and the assonance of these lines is quite deliberate - the 'once but won back' combination is similar because of the invisible alliteration between 'once' and 'won' and the more obvious 'b' alliteration of 'but' and 'back'. The fact that you found this a 'tad weak' actually fits my intent that the succubus achieves an easy victory. This whole piece is written from her POV and does include an element of boasting. I am aware I'm resisting a lot of the critique offered but hope you and others can understand why, Jim
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 9 10, 17:24
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Guest
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Hi, Michelle, thank you for visiting and for that lovely comment, both are appreciated - the gift of another's time is precious to me. As for 'Incubus', I wanted to use the 'lashes' contrast and felt the female of the species was a more apt choice (ducks swiftly to avoid incoming missiles ) On the 'won back' issue, hope my explanation to Sue explains, Jim
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 9 10, 17:51
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Guest
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Hi, Peggy, nice to meet you. The period after 'wise', the first sentence doesn't finish till 'define' in line 3 - that phrase is a compound adjective for the eyes used to introduce the subordinate clauses in line 2. The semi in line 4, not sure it needs that strength, particularly since I use the colon separator almost immediately in line 5. QUOTE (How can one "wield' an eye "lash"? Please explain.) The flip answer is 'just like any other weapon' but I was deliberately drawing parallels with whips here, the fluttering equating with the laying on of the lash - it's actually a little conceit I'm quite proud of. QUOTE (Are you calling eye lashes assassins veils?) yes, the pupils hide behind them QUOTE ("Centres" of what?) I've already dealt with the spelling issue. I'm referencing the pupils of the eyes here, the line structure mirrors line 1 to help make that connection and I had hoped the 'dark pits' would help with that understanding. QUOTE ( A fight with a succubus would seem to me to be "bloody" instead of your "bloodless.") possibly, though not from her POV. This whole piece hangs on the premise that the 'seduction' was easy - this soul was lost in foreplay - and if you missed that, then I've failed badly. Perhaps I will have to look at this one again. Thank you for stopping in and commenting so fully, the gift of your time is much appreciated, Jim
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Aug 9 10, 20:17
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,446
Joined: 16-October 06
From: UK
Member No.: 298
Real Name: Alan McAlpine Douglas
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori/Eisa/loads of old friends
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Dear Jim,
I do not think you need to revise - I GOT all the allusions to eyes, veils etc. And believe me, I am very dense in understanding others' poems. Not bein g self-effacing here, just stating a fact.
Love Alan
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Aug 9 10, 23:49
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 11,505
Joined: 15-June 07
From: Springfield, Louisiana
Member No.: 446
Real Name: Larry D. Jennings
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Just wondered in.
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Hi Jim,
Been away for a while and it looks like I missed quite a bit of good poetry and repartee. Loved your sonnet and though you have had a lot of crits and suggestions, I feel good about your holding your ground. I'm sure there might be some astute observations made about the allusive meanings woven into your poem and how you might improve them but I fail to see how one could improve Succubus. The inner rhymes are not intrusive and the alliteration used is a thing of beauty. Thank you for sharing with us.
After all the praise, there has to be a "but" to follow. Mine is "grey-steel". Hope you are not using "grey" as a color; that would be gray. Perhaps this usage refers more to the "Scots Greys Regiment" being a strong force. Perhaps not! Donno! On this side of the pond, one would say "steel gray" when talking about a certain color of eyes which seem to pierce the soul. I know it's not a big thing but it did throw me off for a bit on first read.
Again, thanks for sharing.
Larry
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 10 10, 05:54
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Guest
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Hi,Larry, thank you for taking the time to stop by, always appreciated. On 'grey', yes that is the colour being referenced - it's how we spell it, 'Gray' is the family 2 doors up on the left. I am in good company, I think, when you remember Tolkien's 'Grey Pilgrim' and 'Grey Havens' or was that edited over there? Seriously speaking, I don't think it's too much to ask American readers/friends to make this small concession, that we Brits can use the spellings we are used to - after all we excuse the variations you use. Not just in spelling but stressing differs, sometimes markedly; you say O-ffence, we say o-FFENCE same with DE-fence (US) and de-FENCE (UK). It's usually quite easy to see what stressing the poet intends and providing it agrees with the needs of the line I have no problems with that. A little toleration never hurts, after all wasn't it Ben Franklin who said 'a man who can think of only one way to spell a word is lacking in imagination' or words to that effect. Come to think of it, that quote is probably what led to the situation now where we have 'two countries separated by a common language'. Jim
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Aug 10 10, 08:16
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,446
Joined: 16-October 06
From: UK
Member No.: 298
Real Name: Alan McAlpine Douglas
Writer of: Poetry
Referred By:Lori/Eisa/loads of old friends
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Dear Jim,
In situations like this I ask Americans what language they speak. They usually say 'English'. Point proven, no ?
Love Alan
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Aug 11 10, 23:33
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 11,505
Joined: 15-June 07
From: Springfield, Louisiana
Member No.: 446
Real Name: Larry D. Jennings
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Just wondered in.
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Okay Jim (and Alan),
Like I said, it was no big thing on the spelling so don't "Bash the Yank" too much. Perhaps I should clarify my thoughts because my main concern was the "grey-steel" part which places the modifying adjective "steel" after instead of before the color of the eyes "grey". Have I screwed up again with another Americanization of the Queen's English? If so, I shall bow out gracefully and just enjoy the read.
Larry
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Guest_bombadil1247_*
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Aug 12 10, 04:07
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Guest
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Hi, Larry, would never dream of 'Bashing the Yank' just asking for a little slack to be cut . On the reversion of 'grey-steel', I did want to suggest that piercing quality you describe so well - hence they 'see beneath your soul' - but also to paint a hardness/lifeless element to this creature, to bring out its 'inhuman' nature. Hope that makes sense, and no, it's not a culture difference just me trying to be a bit too clever maybe - has been known to happen in the past. Jim
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Sep 10 10, 11:23
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Mosaic Master
Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,892
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep
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Hi Jim, I enjoyed this 'darker' poem! I have some suggestions below for you to ponder as you wish. Enjoyed! ~Cleo Beware these eyes: grey-steel and poet-wise, they see beneath your soul and find the faults, Suggest ‘straight through’ for beneath. Also, would you consider subbing ‘the’ for something else? Or perhaps “and find the faults: frailties which redefine. These eyes chastise"the frailties which define. These eyes chastise Got an extra beat here in this line – suggest ditching ‘the’ as mentioned above.the secret “you”, however many vaults you built inside: no harbour here to hide This seems awkward. Suggest something like ‘you build inside: no harbour’s left to hidefrom retribution. Other lashes pale beside the ones I wield; old sins of pride laid bare with every blink – assassin veils. Nice!The centres drown: dark pits to pull you down Suggest replacing ‘to’ with ‘shall’to Hell’s damnation. Light has lost this fight. An inner Dark reclaims the victor’s crown surrendered once but won back here tonight. Suggest ‘surrendered once: victorious tonight.' I just offer this example as I try not to use the word 'but' if possible.Such bloodless battles serve to prove my claim that Hell and Earth are only one domain. I believe you need to swap ‘are’ with ‘is’?
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"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the RingsCollaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind. "I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. KanterNominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here! "Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.MM Award Winner
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