Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny, Wizard award (Styled on a Villanelle) Options

[Guest_Jox_*]

© James Oxenholme, 2005. I, James Oxenholme, do assert my right to be identified as the author of this work in accordance with Sections 77 and 78 of The Copyrights, Designs And Patents Act, 1988. (Laws of Cymru & England, as recognised by international treaties). This work was simultaneously copyrighted in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America. This work is posted as an unpublished work in order to elicit critical assistance and other helpful comment, only.

Thanks to all who have visited hitherto. Thanks especially to Alan, Fran and Nina for crits which led to improvements.

Ref: TC 0350 AE

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Celtic Castle Designs

Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny
by Todd Congreve

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Confuse not the parasites with their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads of great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;
everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence, to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -
do not adulate those with glory and power.

Can mortals only stand to glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:
a life repressed is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?

Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

(end)

Ref: TC 0350 AD

Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny
by TC

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Confuse not the parasites upon their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;
everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -
do not adulate those with glory and power.

Is all mortals can do stand with glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:
a life of repression is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?

Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

(end)

Ref: TC 0350 AC

Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny
by TC

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.
Confuse not the parasites upon their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;
everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.
Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -
do not adulate those with glory and power.
Is all mortals can do stand with glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:
a life of repression is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?
Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

(end)

Version update: AB to AC to correct typo.
Version update: AC to AD to split verses for easier reading.
Version update: AD to AE to make several changes.

[Aggiel]

Hi James,

I am interested in this villanelle.Your first one I have seen.

Good writing and great thought.




Best wishes

Agatha

[Guest_Toumai_*]

James,

You aren't kidding - it is a villanelle. What fun! Did you enjoy the writing of it? I've only done one, and it felt more like doing a jigsaw than poetry, but it was entertaining.

Well, as I said, I've only done the one, so I hope I won't muck anything up with any comments - use or toss, as always.

The title is excellent, and presumeably inspired by that wonderful Dylan Thomas villanelle written about death and in the villanelle thread in Karnak (poetic forms education forum)
http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/cgi-bin....9;t=225

Adulate is an unusual word - so quite eye-catching in the opening line. The long lines and the reversal of the power and the glory gives this a sonorous, quasi-religious-service voice, at least to my ear. I know you enjoy walking your dogs in the woods and so I can see the idea of the dappled bower representing tranquility and happiness.

I see this as your personal view of our worship of the 'great' purely because of their office rather than respecting them for who they truely are, where respect is due.

Sorry, I know you have it as a single stanza, but I had to divide it to see the form (pardon my inexperience)

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Confuse not the parasites upon their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth.  --- lol
Do not adulate those with glory and power;

everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.  --- fools gold again
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappling bower.  --- dapplED bower?

Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -    --- ferocious lines - wonderful
do not adulate those with glory and power.

Is all mortals can do stand with glower,  --- AND glower?
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:

a life of repression is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?
Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

Thanks, James, for a very thought provoking read indeed.

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Agatha,

Thank you for your visit and comments.

>>I am interested in this villanelle. Your first one I have seen.

You're most observant: this is, indeed my first villanelle. And, most probably, my last.

>>Good writing and great thought.

You're very kind; thank you very much; most appreciated.

Best wishes, Agatha.

James.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

congratulations on your first Villanelle.  Did you enjoy the challenge of saying what you wanted within the restrictions imposed by this form?  You have succeeded very well, though I found it easier to see the form looking at it as Fran had split it up.

I like the message you are conveying.  Those in power are no better or superior than anyone else on this planet and why "worship" them when they have done nothing to earn our respect.  Nature is the ultimate power and should be given more respect.  Our adulation is misplaced.

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.
very well put.  In fact the first two lines could easily stand on their own.
The image I get for the dappled bower is walking under an arch of trees with the sun shining through giving a dappled effect.

Confuse not the parasites upon their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;

I may be a bit dozy here (an afternoon shopping does that to me) but I am not sure what I shouldn't be confusing the parasites with.
I like the second line very much, especially the heads with great girth.

everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.

I'm pleased you managed to get your tarnished fools gold in this.   It fits very well.  Two great lines.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -
these two lines are my favourite in the poem.  I love the image the words paint in my mind and the sound of them, especially festering despots.

Is all mortals can do stand with glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?
I agree with Fran about AND glower, though I still have a problem with this first line though I am not sure why.  It feels as if perhaps a word is missing but I don't know what that word is.

a life of repression is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?
absolutely.  Repression creates dissatisfaction, anger and unrest which festers.

This was an interesting thought provoking read.

Thank you.

Nina

[Guest_Billydo_*]

Hi James

This is one poem I will keep coming back to.  Densely packed with powerful images.

Is all mortals can do stand with glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?

Brilliant and thought provoking question and then the answer ... Oh for a peaceful life.

Excellent.

Greatly enjoyed.

Thanks

Mike

PS These forms are killers. I tackled a sestina (Malta) and brain-ached for days. Well done you!

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your visit and very kind comments.

>>These forms are killers. I tackled a sestina (Malta) and brain-ached for days. Well done you!

LOL. I'm not surprised - you've told quite some complex tale, there.

As regards forms per se - not really me.

I was looking around poetry and prose writing / posting / crit sites on the Net and I came across one which - as part of the membership application - required applicants to compose a villanelle. (I think there was an alternative, too). I thought - well I try to write poems but I can't do that. So I decided to do it. I was also spurred on by Fran (Toumai)'s beautiful Irish villanelle and by Dylan Thomas' work (which Fran alluded too, above and whose title I have paraphrased as my personal salute to the great Welsh writer).

Having said all that, this may well be my first and last villanelle. I'm not really into writing form poems, I'm afraid. And, even if I were looking to join another crit site, I certainly would keep as far away as possible, from a site with such an entry requirement.

Good luck to those who are, though - certainly including yourself!

Thanks, James.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran and Nina,

Thanks for your crits. They need a longer reply and I'll try to get back to you both on the morrow (fresher brain etc).

Thanks, J.

[Guest__*]

Dear Jox,

Well done ! Couldn't do it, so you did ! That is the way to conquer the world.

As a vill, it should be separated as Fran has done, part of the def is 6 3-line verses, with the last one having the added 19th line.

Contrary to what your previous replies indicate, villanelles are EASY, thanks to a word processor.

I in effect write my 2 last lines first, then scatter them about the page.  Then I make a list of words that rhyme with the 2 lines written so far.

Next I create line 2, and make a list of words that rhyme with that end-word too.

It could well be that I amend the two first lines written as I go along. I have to say I find this form tremendous fun, and have written quite a few. I DI have those dread feelings to start with tho, if that is any encouragement to others ?

Now to your poem :

Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny
by TC

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -   -- oF earth ?
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower. -- THE peaceful ?

Confuse not the parasites upon their flower; -- with their host flower ?
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth. -- I think OF great girth ?
Do not adulate those with glory and power;

everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth. -- comma after 1st word ?
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower -- washes out - for the badums, Jox !
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -   -- Hades IS the berth - surely you mean Satan's berth ?
do not adulate those with glory and power.

Is all mortals can do stand with glower, -- Is all that mortals can do to stand and glower ?
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs? -- comma not ;
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:

a life of repression is a life turned sour - -- a life repressed is ... ?
how much pain is freedom worth?
Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

Jox, this is a tremendous first effort at a vill ! My above suggestions are incorporated below, but you know to not be tyrannised by my offerings, and you may consign them to Satan' berth if you so wish !

Love
Alan

Do Not Surrender Gently To Tyranny
by TC

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people of Earth -
oh for the peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Confuse not the parasites with their host flower;
praise not arrogance; heads of great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;

everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence, to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.
Oh for the peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

Time washes out festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Satan's berth -
do not adulate those with glory and power.

Is all that mortals can do to stand and glower
as tyrants appropriate lives, creating serfs?
Oh for the peaceful life, under a dappled bower:

a life repressed is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?
Do not adulate those with glory and power...
Oh for the peaceful life, under a dappled bower!

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina,

Thanks for your (as ever) helpful visit and comments.

>>Congratulations on your first Villanelle.

Thank you.

>> Did you enjoy the challenge of saying what you wanted within the restrictions imposed by this form?

No, not in the least. As someone said, like putting a jig-saw together more than creative writing. It felt very silly to me.

>>You have succeeded very well

Thank you.

>> though I found it easier to see the form looking at it as Fran had split it up.

Alan says that is correct form but I’m not really interested in the form at all. I varied the way in which the repeating lines were presented so the split-verse (at least split in that way) doesn’t work for the message.

>>I like the message you are conveying. Those in power are no better or superior than anyone else on this planet and why "worship" them when they have done nothing to earn our respect.

Worse still, many are tyrants.

>> Nature is the ultimate power and should be given more respect. Our adulation is misplaced.

True, though I don’t think I brought nature into this one? (At least, for its own sake - rather, for what it provides for us, or as a metaphor. But you're right - we should worship nature).

Do not adulate those with glory and power;
instead, remember ordinary people on Earth -
oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

>>Very well put. In fact the first two lines could easily stand on their own.

Thanks you.

>>The image I get for the dappled bower is walking under an arch of trees with the sun shining through giving a dappled effect.

Yes. Many areas of my local woodland feel just like that.

Confuse not the parasites upon their flower;
praise not arrogance; heads with great girth.
Do not adulate those with glory and power;

>>I may be a bit dozy here (an afternoon shopping does that to me) but I am not sure what I shouldn't be confusing the parasites with.

Good point! I meant don’t confuse them with the flower. (Many animals are camouflaged to blend-in) I shall have to think about this. Thanks.

>>I like the second line very much, especially the heads with great girth.

Thanks!

everyman has his day, though some steal our
existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth.

I'm pleased you managed to get your tarnished fools gold in this. It fits very well. Two great lines.

Thanks, again.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower
down history's drain to Hades’ berth -

>>These two lines are my favourite in the poem. I love the image the words paint in my mind and the sound of them, especially festering despots.

Brill! I’m so pleased you like them - reactions like that make writing it worth-while :)

Is all mortals can do stand with glower,
as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs?

>>I agree with Fran about AND glower, though I still have a problem with this first line though I am not sure why. It feels as if perhaps a word is missing but I don't know what that word is.

The line is poorly written. I knew that when I wrote it but hadn’t worked-out the best improvement. Will work on’t.

a life of repression is a life turned sour -
how much pain is freedom worth?

>>Absolutely. Repression creates dissatisfaction, anger and unrest which festers.

Indeed. The price of freedom etc.

>>This was an interesting thought provoking read. Thank you.

No, thank you!.

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

True, though I don’t think I brought nature into this one?
maybe not intentionally but the line:

oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.
to me is all about nature and the tranquillity and harmony that one can get walking in the forest and under the trees, a vivid contrast to the other lines of the poem which describe disharmony and aggression.

What came across to me was "don't worship those who don't deserve it, appreciate and respect the simple pleasures, like nature.

Those were my thoughts anyway.

I was just looking at Alan's suggestion that Hades' berth shold be Satan's berth.  Sorry Alan, but I disagree with you.  Satan is the captain of the "ship" and Hades is the "ship" that he is controlling so therefore the berth is on the ship

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina,

Thanks for returning.

True, though I don’t think I brought nature into this one?

>>Maybe not intentionally but the line:

oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower.

>>to me is all about nature and the tranquillity and harmony that one can get walking in the forest and under the trees, a vivid contrast to the other lines of the poem which describe disharmony and aggression.

Yes, you're perfectly correct, Nina - both with your interpretation and my meaning.

I poorly phrased my reply to you. I simply meant that I was not praising nature in this poem (though we ought). But that tranquillity of nature is, indeed, what I meant.

>>What came across to me was "don't worship those who don't deserve it, appreciate and respect the simple pleasures, like nature.
>>Those were my thoughts anyway.

Yes, you have my thoughts, there. Indeed. 100% of my meaning. (Sorry, again for the misleading phrasing of my initial reply).

I wrote this poem in this form after Fran wrote her beautiful Irish ville and also because of Dylan Thomas' raging. But the stimulus to writing the meaning was Alan's poem and seeing the Pope's funeral on tv. I detested all the sycophancy for an office and a man - both of which I thought deserved admonishment not adulation. Though this relates to very many high (and low) office holders.

>>I was just looking at Alan's suggestion that Hades' berth should be Satan's berth.  Sorry Alan, but I disagree with you.  Satan is the captain of the "ship" and Hades is the "ship" that he is controlling so therefore the berth is on the ship.

I must check the dictionary definitions - but, again, you certainly have my meaning.

Thanks Nina - and sorry for the initial misleading comments. Brain fade!

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

Thanks Nina - and sorry for the initial misleading comments. Brain fade!
that's OK.  Looking back at what I'd written initially I don't think I expressed what I wanted to say very well, my brain wasn't at its best when I posted yesterday.  I'm not at my most intelligible when I've had my sleep disrupted in the middle of the night.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina,

>>that's OK.  Looking back at what I'd written initially I don't think I expressed what I wanted to say very well, my brain wasn't at its best when I posted yesterday.  I'm not at my most intelligible when I've had my sleep disrupted in the middle of the night.

Oh dear - sorry you didn't sleep well. You're going to have to give up the cat burglary business, I'm afraid.

But it was my fault; not yours at all.

Fran, Alan, I need a chunk of time to reply to your kind comments and I shall as soon as I can - thanks in the meantime.

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

Oh dear - sorry you didn't sleep well. You're going to have to give up the cat burglary business, I'm afraid.
ROFL ....I wish!  mind you it would be more like a "bull in a china shop" burlary business with me.
I just need to tell my daughter not to have a massive nosebleed at all over her bed at 2am.  

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran

Thanks for your long crit.

You aren't kidding - it is a villanelle.

Well, Alan tells me not as it is a monobloc - but close (that’s why I put “styled on” in the header). I’ve learnt that every form I attempt I never quite stick to.

>> What fun! Did you enjoy the writing of it?

Nope. I seldom do find any writing fun, to be honest. There are exceptions - if I simply allow my hands to jot-down my stream of consciousness (as in that recent Pekoe story which you, Nina and Dani critted) then it can be fun and what comes out is “pure” and quite insane.

However, most of the time, I’m not having fun at all.

Sometimes writing may be very personal / pleasurable - as in some recent poems which I’ve started, where I’m inspired by delightful images which by-pass my head and go straight to my emotions. Such can be intensely moving - but not fun per se.

Often, I’m simply driven to write by a story or anger at some situation. This poem is in response to such anger.

>> I've only done one, and it felt more like doing a jigsaw than poetry, but it was entertaining.

Yes, not like creative writing at all. More like twiddling some for of IQ test with words (limited by the rhyme pattern). Glad I (almost) did it because not I know what I’m saying if I crit them.

>>Well, as I said, I've only done the one, so I hope I won't muck anything up with any comments - use or toss, as always.

I’m looking forward...

>>The title is excellent, and presumably inspired by that wonderful Dylan Thomas villanelle written about death and in the villanelle thread in Karnak (poetic forms education forum)
"http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=225"

Yes, I was trying to pay homage to DT there. Thanks for the link.

>>Adulate is an unusual word - so quite eye-catching in the opening line.

I didn’t realise it was unusual. (You obviously don’t discuss enough politics!) but thank you very much.

>>The long lines and the reversal of the power and the glory gives this a sonorous, quasi-religious-service voice, at least to my ear.

Initially, I thought you were wrong - but, no, you are spot-on.

“The Power And The Glory” is a well-known religious line, used in hymns and The Lord’s Prayer - and is the title of Graham Greene’s book concerning Catholicism. I have obviously sub-consciously employed religious language because of the subject matter. Good job my brain seems to know what it’s doing - because I haven’t a clue.

>> I know you enjoy walking your dogs in the woods and so I can see the idea of the dappled bower representing tranquillity and happiness.

Yes, precisely. Thank you.

>>I see this as your personal view of our worship of the 'great' purely because of their office rather than respecting them for who they truly are, where respect is due.

Yes and the fact that they do damage whilst in office and are then adulated after.

>>Sorry, I know you have it as a single stanza, but I had to divide it to see the form (pardon my inexperience)

No, Alan says you are right as per the form. But, as you can see from the divisions, it breaks the poem in ways I don’t intend. I might see if I can make any logical breaks, else leave it monobloc.

>>praise not arrogance; heads with great girth. --- lol

Yes more posh than sayin’ “big ‘eds”!

>>existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth. --- fools gold again

Oui :)

>>Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappling bower. --- dapplED bower?

Changed, thank you.

>>Time washes festering despots, via its shower
>>down history's drain to Hades’ berth - --- ferocious lines - wonderful

Thank you.

>>Is all mortals can do stand with glower, --- AND glower?

I know that line is bad - thinking; thank you.

>>Thanks, James, for a very thought provoking read indeed.

Thank you, Fran.

J.

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi James,

Thanks for you reply to my comments.

When you say "I seldom do find any writing fun, to be honest" are you talking about your poetry, save for the few exceptions you mention, or do you also feel like that about your novel?

I find reading those words make me feel quite sad. When I write my novel it is a challenge but (usually) satisfying. When I write a 'heavy' poem it is not so much anger as an imperative need that drives me.

*hugs*

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Fran,

>>Thanks for you reply to my comments.

No, thank you!

>>When you say "I seldom do find any writing fun, to be honest" are you talking about your poetry, save for the few exceptions you mention, or do you also feel like that about your novel?
>>I find reading those words make me feel quite sad. When I write my novel it is a challenge but (usually) satisfying. When I write a 'heavy' poem it is not so much anger as an imperative need that drives me.

I'm sorry to make you sad; no sadness needed. But, since you ask:

Very little writing for me is ever fun. (I'm not actually sure much in life is - well I don‘t find it so, anyway).

Writing: I am driven by an imperative to write; it is a job; a vocational job, if you like.

I often write in anger. Anger in a major imperative. We should not simply permit others to organise how our world is run - we need to make our voices clearly heard. I've lost most of my youthful anger with things but, before I do a Dylan Thomas and rage against old age, I have some raging against authority still to do. :)

Writing does, indeed satisfy me - greatly if I think I've not done too bad a job. But that's not fun, is it? Fun is dressing up as a yellow and mauve donkey and eating banana moose from a Marmite jar in the middle of a bluebell patch (crushed a little by a woman-orang-utan, of course) and singing Beatles' songs to the music of madrigals, whilst carving Welsh love spoons out of old spaceships. Now that's fun!

Thank you :)

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi James

I've been reading your comments to Fran

Very little writing for me is ever fun. (I'm not actually sure much in life is - well I don‘t find it so, anyway).
I find what you say quite sad as well.  

I hope at least that you find writing cathartic and a way of moving the anger from inside your head onto paper (or  onto a PC).

I agree writing is not always fun, but a way of expressing what's inside you, but some writing can be fun to do.

Fun is dressing up as a yellow and mauve donkey and eating banana moose from a Marmite jar in the middle of a bluebell patch (crushed a little by a woman-orang-utan, of course) and singing Beatles' songs to the music of madrigals, whilst carving Welsh love spoons out of old spaceships. Now that's fun!
urmm if you say so! no wonder you never have much fun if that's what it takes to have fun.

Fun for me is having a laugh and chat with friends and family, enjoying a day out somewhere, mucking around with my children and seeing their enjoyment and daft little things that bring a smile to my face.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your extensive crit.

>>Well done ! Couldn't do it, so you did ! That is the way to conquer the world.

Short Arses always do it like that - Napoleon, Thatcher etc.

>>As a vill, it should be separated as Fran has done, part of the def is 6 3-line verses, with the last one having the added 19th line.

Thanks but that is why I didn't call it a villanelle in the title - i just said styled on. I like it better in this form.

>>Contrary to what your previous replies indicate, villanelles are EASY, thanks to a word processor.

I don't agree. I found it very confining. I wanted to use words where no rhymes existed - seemed silly to me. One point, though, I was heavily guided by your explanation in Karnak's - which I had open in front of me as I wrote this - so thank you.

>>I in effect write my 2 last lines first, then scatter them about the page.  Then I make a list of words that rhyme with the 2 lines written so far.
>>Next I create line 2, and make a list of words that rhyme with that end-word too.

Yes I did that, then changed my initial lines several times. I couldn't get them to say what I wanted. I have to say I really hated the process. Like Fran says, more a jigsaw than creative writing. I'm sure a well-programmed computer could have done better than I.

>>It could well be that I amend the two first lines written as I go along. I have to say I find this form tremendous fun, and have written quite a few. I DI have those dread feelings to start with tho, if that is any encouragement to others ?

Thanks Alan...

But why FUN??? Where on Earth is the fun in writing this sort of poem? You’ve lost me. It simply kept getting in the way of what I wanted to say. Having to rhyme words seems so pointless usually - but having so few rhymes to play with means the words can become very trite. I tried to overcome this by using the repeating sentences in different ways - hence in have left it in monobloc for some form of flow.

Also, I very seldom find writing fun by the way. It is occasionally joyous, usually hard work (this poem took way over an hour - which, considering all the repeating lines and ditties seems daft).

Often, when writing, I am quite angry at something or feel something needs saying. Much of my writing is ambition-driven (OK I know it may well be fruitless but I’m trying).

As regards fun - I almost never even set-out to write for fun. Very occasionally I do but I usually can’t be bothered. Writing, for me, is a driving imperative. However, having said that, I did write a dialogue a couple of weeks ago which did turn out to be great fun to write (though I didn’t know that when I started). Some pieces do work like that - but they are usually fast and furious.  The particular piece is too obscene to post anywhere on MM - perhaps why it was so much fun!

Generally, I think the only exception is stream of conscious - which, with me, is almost always surrealism because that is how I usually think.

No, I found this an ordeal and only pressed on, partly because of you again (thanks!). Your Pope poem spurred me on against tyrants (I was also thinking about Joe Stalin, Thatcher, Bush and Blair at the time - plus the captains of industry. I was in an excellent Marxist frame of mind - Up the revolution!).



>>Do not adulate those with glory and power;
>>instead, remember ordinary people on Earth - -- oF earth ?

Thanks I quite like “of Earth” in itself, but this was based on the hymn “All People that on Earth do Dwell” and also on the Lord’s Prayer - “On Earth as it is in Heaven.” It follows on from “Power and Glory“ - which I switched. (That is a well-known religious phrase and was Graham Green‘s book based on Catholicism.  - Fran was right when she said religious it seems, though I think of it in more political-power terms.

You see, your poem about the Pope not only spurred me into arguing on your tile - it, and all the power and majesty of the Pope’s funeral were very much in my mind when I wrote this poem.  I felt quite a lot of anger watching that and listening to the fawning tv presentation. Hence all the angry language. But it is applicable to any power-crazed dictators - from terrible neighbours, via Nazi-supporting French mayors to captains of industry, politicians and church leaders. But I certainly started with the pope’s funeral.

>>oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower. -- THE peaceful ?

No because it is not everyone’s idea of a peaceful life.

>>Confuse not the parasites upon their flower; -- with their host flower ?

>>“Host” may be biologically correct but, to me, it implies a welcoming invitation. Here the parasites are murdering the essence of the flower. (If such is possible!)

>>praise not arrogance; heads with great girth. -- I think OF great girth ?

That may well be much better. Thank you.

existence to feed their tarnished pyrites’ worth. -- comma after 1st word ?

Unsure - but I’ll think on’t. Thanks.

Time washes festering despots, via its shower -- washes out - for the badums, Jox !

But “Time washes out festering despots, via its shower down history’s drain..” makes no sense to me, sorry. One can’t wash out... down., surely?

As regards meter - sorry ???

down history's drain to Hades’ berth - -- Hades IS the berth - surely you mean Satan's berth ?

emm. I’m reluctant to say Satan because I was trying to suggest these people were the Satans.  But I must think on’t thanks. I meant the place where Hell is birthed. Since I don’t actually believe in Hell it was meaning to long-term contempt etc. (Don’t believe in Satan either, by the way except in people).

>>Is all mortals can do stand with glower, -- Is all that mortals can do to stand and glower ?

I was very unhappy with this phrasing - thanks will look at that.

>>as tyrants appropriate lives; creating serfs? -- comma not ;

I think semi-colon. the appropriation of lives and the creation of surfs were two ways of expressing a similar thought.

Oh for a peaceful life, under a dappled bower:

>>a life of repression is a life turned sour - -- a life repressed is ... ?

That looks neater, thank you.

Jox, this is a tremendous first effort at a vill !
Thanks Alan but I think it will also be my last. Been there; tried that; time to move on I think. It was interesting but certainly not for me.

My above suggestions are incorporated below, but you know to not be tyrannised by my offerings, and you may consign them to Satan' berth if you so wish !

LOL! Thanks. As always, most helpful - thank you, Alan.