Unusual Industries, Are there any in your area Options

[Guest__*]

The Cider Farms in the West Country, where our Grace received her inspiration to write about The Apple Orchard, strongly reminded me of some of the less common industries to be found in other parts of the country. Indeed, I suppose, all over the world.  It brought to mind a quaint custom we have in Knotty Ash, Liverpool, where a famous English comedian employs a number of diddy-men to work his jam butty mines. Ken Dodd is an aristocrat who has ancestors entrenched deep in Liverpool folk lore. Because of the independent nature of the average Liverpudlian, or Liverpolitan, as the more refined residents prefer to be called, there was always a tendency for the leading lights in the community to clash with authority.
At one time Ken was accused, quite wrongly of course, of introducing a low quality fruit into the raspberry mines, and there were strong rumours that the entire operation would be closed down as being too hazardous. The foreman of the diddy crew, one, Mick the Marmaliser, who has since achieved international fame as a ventriliquist' dummy, was vehement in declaring the entire commotion to be nothing but a scam on behalf of Robertsons, a rival jam company. His timely intervention saved the day, and also,fortuitously, the mines. The mines have since played an important part of the Liverpool economy.

Ken Dodd, of course, is extremely well known throughout the UK. He has  vigorously upheld the traditions of his family, including the welfare of the diddy men, the safety of the jam butty mines, and a familial distaste of revenue men which has survived for over four hundred years. The following item is an extract from the records of Wavertree Town Hall. which still exists today, some three miles from the thriving township of Knotty Ash.
To those who have never encoutered such things, a tickling stick is the traditional weapon of the diddy man, who seldom grows above two feet nine inches, although some have managed to attain an impressive three feet. Scouse of course, is the traditional dish of all Liverpool dwellers.

.The Legend of Sir Kenneth Dodde
1625 – 1702

The house was dark and silent,
The clock struck half past four
Then came a thunderous knocking
upon the old oak door.

An upstairs bedroom window
became diffused in light
The watchers looked above them,
then tumbled back in fright.

What was that apparition
with manic, gleaming eye,
with teeth protruding whitely
and black hair stood on high.

“Sir Kenneth, rouse your person,
You’re placed in close arrest”
“I’ll be down in a minute.
Just wait till I get dressed”

Sir Ken spied with the watchers
a masked man, with an axe.
“There’s some mistake!” Sir Kenneth said.
“I’ve paid my income tax!”

“We’re not disposed to argue!
Come down, or you’ll get hurt”
“I’m coming down directly.
Oh Mother! Where’s me shirt?”

Sir Kenneth was arrested
by men so dark and dour.
They grabbed him by the manacles
and dragged him to the Tower.

He stood inside his prison
and gave a rueful laugh
“I’ll not be here for long!” Quoth he,
and waved his tickling staff.

Somewhere within the city
came cries of deep dismay
As diddymen came gathering
to ready for the fray.

“Prepare yourselves to marmalise”
cried little diddy Mick,
And a thousand diddy fingers
waved their little tickling stick.

The butty mines were emptied,
the shops were all closed down.
Ten thousand angry diddymen
marched into London Town.

The Tower was torn to pieces
dissembled brick by brick.
No soldier dared to stand and face
an angry tickling stick.

Sir Kenneth Dodde was rescued;
He went back to his house
And threw a mighty party
served up with loads of scouse.

The world was filled with laughter;
Sir Kenneth danced with glee.
He honoured the occasion
by the planting of a tree.

The tree grew strong and sturdy
and with a Scouse panache,
They built a town around it
and they called it Knotty Ash.


.
.

[Cybele]

Hi Tom,

Well, this all brings back memories.  :jester:

Mind if I add a little input here?  

Kenneth Arthur Dodd was born at an early age in Liverpool on 8th November 1927. He grew up in Knotty Ash, which - surprisingly - is a real district of the city, and developed a comedy act as Professor Yaffle Chuckabutty, the Operatic Tenor and Sausage Knotter, singing comic versions of well-known songs.

Doddy created the Diddymen to appeal to the children in the audience. The 'diddy' men ('diddy' is Liverpudlian slang for 'little') were intended to appeal to the 'diddy' members of the audience.

So were born Dicky Mint, Mick the Marmalizer, Evan, Hamish McDiddy, and Nigel Ponsonby-Smallpiece, who work in the Jam Butty Mines at Knotty Ash


Can't remember the words of the song beyond:

We are the diddy men,
Doddy's little diddy men
We are the diddy men
who come from Knotty Ash

an you help me out here Tom

Love

Grace

[Guest_Jox_*]

How tickled I am, Mrs!

What a wonderful day for turning a mop upside down and poking it round the door and saying to the kids "Look, Granny's gone thin!"

I saw Doddy in panto in about 1968 (?) with Dickie Henderson. Henderson was great but Doddy was absolutly excellent.

Chuckle Butties all round!

Doddy's Tour dates, links, videos etc Here

J.

[Cybele]

Hi Tom and James,

Speaking of unusual industries - remember the Treacle Mines? Oh the joy, when out in the country on a charabanc trip to be told "Look there's a Treacle Mine".  Unfortunately, the Chara never stopped at these wonderful places.

On a trip one day we passed through Wymsey, Treacle Mine Headquarters!!!

Thought you might be interested in a piece I had to write for school homework that day.  (I had forgotten my own maxim - when on a trip, don't look at anything. They will make you write about it when you get back!! )    

In the summer of 1939 clouds were gathering over Europe but the people of Wymsey were preoccupied with a more parochial looming disaster - the closure of the Wymsey Treacle Mine. Treacle had been mined in Wymsey long before the Romans occupied Watchester (Cystcentum) in AD66. A mosaic temple floor found at Sylvestum, north of Watchester, depicts the mining process as practised in Roman Britain.


Wymsey Treacle was long valued for it's effects, consistency and colour. Artifacts uncovered in, and around, the mine point to continuous exploitation since neolithic times. In the middle ages the raw product was valued by alchemists who believed that it was manna that God had hidden in the centre of the earth for the use of cherubim and seraphim when visiting earth. Pseudo Colonius Pollinius states, in his 1513 treatise Sticusium Malpropitum, "be it of the beste be it from Wymsea".


I got 9 out of 10 and a BIG RED TICK    


Love

Grace

[Guest__*]

Hi Grace.
"How're you diddling, Missus?".
I'm still trying to remember the Diddymen Song. Ridiculous how something like that could haunt you for years, then fall away into the back of your mind. I used to live in Page Moss, which lay between Doddy's estate and the butty mines. The diddymen would march past my window in their hundreds, on the way to work every day, and honestly, I don't think they knew any other song. They would drive me crazy singing chorus after chorus. So I should know it, but I can't remember.

I remember Wymsey Treacle though. They say that to be really effective it has to be mined within three miles of where you live. A bit like honey really.The bee is supposed to have a range of three miles, so the bee hive should lie within your locality for the honey to be beneficial.  My old Great Grandad used to use locally mined treacle for his arthritis. Ours was open cast, at a place called Egremont, on the Wirral. Gone now though. Young ones always think that they know better. Did you know that treacle also makes a grand hot poultice for skin ailments like boils or warts. You put it hot on a dressing, then put sugar on it.

Back to Knotty Ash. Or as it's sometimes known, Diddyland. It has the world's highest sunshine rate, and apart from the butty mines the mainstreams of employment are the snuff quarries, moggie ranches and gravy wells.

The place is absolutely tattifilarious. When I no longer feel the urge to write poetry, I intend to retire there gracefully. But not for a long time yet.

Tom
.

[Guest__*]

Very sad news tonight. The very home of the Diddymen has been razed to the ground by vandals. Thingwall Hall, their stately residence has been destroyed by vandals, who set fire to it. They're all pretty old now, so they'll probably end up in sheltered housing. Shame.

On a lighter note, I was chatting with an old friend at lunch today. After a beer or two he reminded me of some interviews he made with the BBC and some really unusual jobs. If anyone else knows of similar occupations, please don't hesitate to add them to this thread. Remember that TV series about the world's worst jobs?

A WHELK UNCURLER IN A FISH BAR by Jack Warner

For those of you who don't know what whelks are, they're sea food in those funny little shells like snails. Ugh!  Give me a pan of scouse any day.

There are lots of funny jobs we never hear of now-a-days, for folks can get a living in so many funny ways. Now take old Will, a pal of mine, he earns a decent screw at a job that's rather funny but quite necessary too:
He's a whelk uncurler working in a fish bar. He's a whelk unwinder working every day. He shells whelks as he finds them and he carefully unwinds them, just in case the little brown bit breaks away. Now whelks don't look like whelks when all in pieces,so they must be handled tenderly, like silks, and a bar can't do without a proper good whelk puller-outer;

That's why Willie's working there unwinding whelks.
Tom

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[Guest__*]

Dear All

The most unusual occupation I ever heard of was noisily exposed on the BBC's 20 Questions program, many years ago.

The prog had "experts" having to guess a job by a short mime, and then had some questions (sorry, exact number escapes me) to locate what the job was.

This one defeated them : Sagger-makers Bottom-knocker.

I'm sure that Tom, the best contestant Blind Date never had,will be able to eluci-date instead !

Love
Alan

[Guest_Jox_*]

Tom, Grace, Alan, et al...

A WHELK UNCURLER IN A FISH BAR by Jack Warner

I always knew those policemen were moon-lighting when not blue-lighting! Fancy being involved in the food industry! Bet they use copper pans! Of course, the proper way to serve uncurled whelks is in a Wymsey Treacle sauce.

Alan, I think you'll find it was usualy just over nineteen questions. That's six for animal, six for vegetable and six for mineral plus a couple for good luck.

As for blind dates - they too can be served in Wymsey Treacle - with a dash of chuckle-butty custard.

Even' All.. (salutes) de de de, de de de, de de de de, da de de de...

James.

[Cybele]

Hi Fellers

How tickled I am with this thread. Thank you Tom and James for educating me re the Whelk thingy. Most interesting

Alan

This one defeated them : Sagger-makers Bottom-knocker

Believe it or not Alan, I actually watched that particular show so I know the answer. (Who's a little clever clogs then?)    


He has various work colleagues intriguingly known as :

Clay blunger  
Disintergrater Attendant  
Pugger  

Watch this space for the answers to these and many more fascinating facts    Alternatively a couple of pints and a pie down at the Red Lion might loosen my tongue


Love

Grace

[Guest_Jox_*]

Grace, watched the programme??

I did not know that it had taken that fatal leap from The Home Service to The Devil's Goggley-Box. What a shame. Big brother always kills the radio programmes.

I should always avoid the evil eye if Radio Four has an (original) version.

Mind you, I enjoyed Dixon of Dock Monochrome. The Blue Lapm looked great in grey and lighter grey.

TTFN, J.

[Cybele]

Sure was on the box James  :smart:


"What's my thingy", with that Irishman, what's my Neamon Andrews ?

Yeh, The Blue Lamp (great name for a TV programme on black and white TV) -
Almost as good as John Spencer's whispered comment on  Pot Black (also in glorious non-colour) "for those of you watching in Black and White the pink is behind the blue "

Little snippet here. I once met the lovely Jack Warner in his later years . Charming man (terrible halitosis)  

Cheers

Grace

[Guest__*]

Twenty Questions and the infamous Sagger-makers Bottom-knocker. were part of our television lives way back when. The chief star  was one, Gilbert Harding, a man of lugubrious countenance and fierce temper. Add  Barbara Kelly and Lady Isabel Barnett. Can't remember the rest. Eamon was the presenter.

What about that chap from Whitney. The town in Oxfordshire where they make shuttlecocks. Do Americans have another name for shuttlecocks? Those little bomb shaped things that they use to play badminton. (Thinks. Do Americans play badminton?) If you remember, he had the task of straightening the feathers so that they would lie correctly together to make the shuttlecock fly straight.. Jack had a word for him too. Notice the curious idiom or accentual tone in his voice. They all talk this way in that area. Hence the expression, Fortyfousandfevversonafrush.

A FUMPER AND FLATTENER OF FEATHERS by Jack Warner

Now a man I know a very funny kind of job enjoys
It's really making shuttlecocks and other feathered toys
His job's to bend the feathers so they stick a certain way
And this is what he told me when I saw him yesterday.
He's a fumper and a flattener of fevvers
He's a fevver fumper that's the job 'e's at,
'Cos when a fevver furls up and when a fevver curls up
The fevver fumper fumps the fevver flat.
Now the fevver fumper feeds the fevver fixer
And the fixer fixes fevvers that 'e's dumped
But the curled ones he refuses, so the fevvers that 'e uses
Are the fevvers that the fevver fumper's fumped.


Tom
.

[Guest_Jox_*]

"What's My Line" was a quiz dedicated to guessing people's employment. "Twenty Questions" was a different programme. I can picture Harding but I didn't know he presented "Twenty Questions" on tv; I only remember the Home Service version.

As regards tv - we don't really need it - we have "The Today Programme" after all!

[Guest__*]

"What's My Line" was a quiz dedicated to guessing people's employment.
Of course it was James. slapping the head. The question is, how did you know?  You must have been a babe in arms when Gilbert Harding was in his heyday. The confusion arises because questions were involved, but it's that long ago that I don't remember the rules.

Tom

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[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Tom,

The "candidate" would come on and "do" a mime - something ridiculous which represented some action involved in their employment. Just before that they would "sign in" on the board.

The panel would ask questions of an indirect nature, aimed at establishing the candidate's employment. The chairman would rule some very direct or leading questions out. He would also assist answers where the candidate had difficulties.

The programme was also broadcast on the Home Service in a suitably modified form.

How do I remember? Sorry, I don't remember how I remember.

I have been listening to The Today Programme since about 1962/3. I enjoyed the heyday of Redhead and Timpson but also enjoy Humphries and Nocherty. But I well remember the clock-challenged days of William Hardcastle. I‘ve been a radio and political junkie since I was four or five. I even remember the day that Tony Blackburn changed the Home Service into Radio Four by starting Radio One in 1967. In the early 1970s I followed the development of local radio from BBC Radio Leicester (first) to Capital Radio (first ILR) to the ILRs becoming just wallpaper and very local indeed. I have become convinced that there are some excellent television programmes but, in general, all we need is BBC Radio Four.

Funnily throughout all this I have never developed a love of Doo-Whap nor of most pop music - though I really enjoy many individual records. My dancing years were disco (plus some punk) but, though I can enjoy some I recognise that, like waltzes, the genre is just rubbish - designed for dancing to, not listening. My favourite band of that day was Mud. Great fun but more rubbish, really. Pop is very ephemeral. usually, only those who danced through it really love it.  “Great” records of the 1950s - e.g. Guy Mitchell - are only really appreciated by those who lived them today. Same with my era of the 1970s (and, of course the 1960s).

As Queen put it... (I think that must have been one of her earlier Crimble broadcasts).

Radio I'd sit alone and watch your light
My only friend through teenage nights
And everything I had to know
I heard it on my radio

All we hear is Radio ga-ga
Radio goo-goo
Radio ga-ga
Radio what's new?
Radio someone still loves you

(by Roger Meadows-Taylor; Truncated because of copyright restrictions).

[Guest__*]

Now I remember. Each panel member was allowed to ask questions until they received a negative answer or ran out of time. Then they had to guess the occupation.

My son listened a lot to Radio 4. Very intellectual lad, him. He has now retired to Mid Caldy, up there near Edinburgh, where he sits by the river watching swans swim by his back garden. His chief forte is tuning bagpipes for the Hairy Haggis Herders of Inverknochie. Apart from little foibles like that he appears to be quite normal.

As regards your taste in popular music, we have radio programmes dedicated to the oldies. Guy Mitchell, Frankie Laine, Ronnie Hilton, Guy Mitchell, Jo Stafford, Johnny Ray, Kay Starr all have their song in our musical heritage.
Johnny Rotten, alas, is consigned to obscurity. I was a Wizard fan myself.

Hope you are feeling better

Tom
.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Tom,

Thank you for your good and kind wishes. I am better - been on holiday for the past week also.

Juxtaposition of the week: "Johnny Rotten" and "music". You are most welcome to have Rotten and all punk on the Radio Two "Let's Dig Up Guy Mitchell etc Show“. All far too modern for my taste. Actually, I am not sure I do really have any taste in popular music - all the music I like seems relatively unpopular. (Including folk music - and I adore Morris Dancing).

Haggis are wonderful beasts. Don't start me on them. (Suffice to say that Barnes Wallace developed his Ruhr-Rattler after watching Scotsmen practice the auld sport of "Haggis Bouncing". (Stopped sometime in the 1960s by The Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to

Wizard - great fun. Though, on the whole, I think Roy Wood contributed more as a member of The Move and ELO than he did as Chief Wizard. Tremendous Crimble record, though.

Yes, I have been asking around and the consensus here is that (sorry to disagree, Grace) "Twenty Questions" was never on tv. ("What's My Line" was).

One does not have to be intellectual to listen to BBC Radio Four - just brain dead to listen to most other stations (BBC North excepted, of course). Off to listen to Frankie Vallie and the Five Seasons doing a little musical fusion number... The Gershwin Pogo doo-whap. Cheerio.

[Guest__*]

One mustn't be too hard on Grace. It's a very easy error to make. The key factor is the ubiquitous Gilbert Harding, who featured highly in both shows. Harding was a panellist on What's my Line on BBC T.V. One of his performances brought nearly 200 complaints to Aunty's switchboard. He was also the original presenter of Twenty Questions on the radio. circa 1950 I believe.

I was rather fond of Does the Team Think ?. Invariably, they didn't.  But Ted Ray, Jimmy Edwards and Tommy Trinder were a joy at impromptu wit. Rather like yourself actually James.

Regarding the protection of haggis as an endangered species. I think you'll find that it was The Royal Scottish Society for Prevention of Cruelty who did the deed. In England and Wales they are still fair game. Only for sport though. No one would dream of ever eating one.
The same  Royal Scottish Society for Prevention of Cruelty  also attempted to legislate that all kilts should be treble starched in order to prevent them blowing wild in the Highlands. Some said it was to stop scaring the wild life and impede the Laird's stag hunting. It was only the iron determination of the Scotsmen, and the equally avid curiosity of the Scotswoman which stayed this legislation in it's tracks. The main line of their reasoning was that the kilt would be unduly unyielding when it came to tossing the caber, which is, as you know, a national sport. The Provost of Kilcuddy and the Kirk also agreed that this was against the general principles long held in Scotland that all men were created equal. An idea borrowed by significant others in the eighteenth century.

Back to work.

Tom
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[Cybele]

Hold on a second there men,    


Quote:
"Yes, I have been asking around and the consensus here is that (sorry to disagree, Grace) "Twenty Questions" was never on tv. ("What's My Line" was)."

Quote:
"One mustn't be too hard on Grace. It's a very easy error to make."  

Source of all the misinformation was not me boys. I quote :

“The most unusual occupation I ever heard of was noisily exposed on the BBC's 20 Questions program, many years ago.

The prog had "experts" having to guess a job by a short mime, and then had some questions (sorry, exact number escapes me) to locate what the job was.

This one defeated them : Sagger-makers Bottom-knocker.”
Alan

My reply:
Believe it or not Alan, I actually watched that particular show so I know the answer. (Who's a little clever clogs then?)    

He has various work colleagues intriguingly known as :
Clay blunger  
Disintergrater Attendant  
Pugger  

"Grace, watched the programme?? " James

"Sure was on the box James  

"What's my thingy", with that Irishman, what's my Neamon Andrews ?""

To dispel all the confusion here:


Twenty Questions :   this quiz series based on the ancient pastime called 'Animal, Vegetable or Mineral' shot to the heights of popularity after its first broadcast in March 1947. It was originally chaired by Stewart MacPherson, and later by Gilbert Harding and eventually by Kenneth Horne. The idea was that a panel was invited to identify objects by asking only twenty questions. There was a mystery voice introducing the object in sepulchral tones by saying "and the mystery object is"

What’s my line The game consisted of four panellists trying to guess the occupation of a guest contestant. As the questioning rotated, a panel member asked questions, and the guest would answer either "yes" or "no."

Hope this clears up the misconception that my brain is slightly addled  

From your not quite gaga friend

Grace    

[Guest_Jox_*]

Tom, Grace et al, top of The mornin' to you all (Middle of the night to those of your across the Pond), (Arnie, Good evening).

Grace - thank you for your programme info (now why is the "Radio Times" not that good?) I knew what these progs were about (having listened to many editions - esp. "Footballer, Politician or Mineral". I could not have remembered all the crew, though.

Sorry if I slighted you by a misunderstanding. If it's ok with you I think we should blame Alan as he doesn't seem around on this thread at the moment. I could blame myself but that seems a terrible waste of an ego.

Tom,

Thank you for your kind comments about my humour. Actually, you were spot-on. I bought it a few weeks ago from surplus BBC stock which they are flogging-off. As soon as I knew the superb level of humour on MM I knew I had to get more humour so off to the BBC I went. Just a quick warning - if any of you do the same... buy BBC stock by all means but not Delia Smith's BBC stock. It is already going very mouldy and the original Canary taste is plummeting fast.

I love eating haggis. Goes down beautifully with a bottle single malt. Of course, not much else is able to disguise the taste.

Actually, Tom, in some parts of the Highlands starched kilts are now the (straight) rule. After all, the English hide their stiff upper lips - why can't the Scots hide their stiff upper kilts?

By sheer (!) co-incidence, "What's My Thingy" used to be the name of those Scottish Caber Outdoor Tossing (SCOT) Championships before the "Stiff Kilts" rule was enacted. (How daft of me - I've just realised why Alan is not here at the moment - he's probably a supporter of flexible kilts... he might even be so decadent as to buy ones with an amount of Lycra ® in them. If pure wool is good enough for Welshmen, it rather shows up the Scots (well, it would without the starch).

"All men are created equal" - ah the strains of long-forgotten Scottish communism from the Clydebank dock yards. (John Brown's body lies a moulding in his watery grave, sadly). Equality - most people couldn't give a toss, of course. However, I do remember wee Willy McAcorn leading the "Stiffer Kilts" campaign. Something about Tartan Oak trees having a wider bohl but not being as long as the mighty Scots Pine. Oh well, each man has his own caber-bilities; I couldn't really give a pole vault.

The Laird's Stag Hunting? I heard differently... Apparently non-starched kilts are preferred by Sir Larry McLimp-Wrist - enables him to assess the game much better. Still he gives it a fair go... he loves the fun of the chase. Only when the game's up does he go in for the "kill".