Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

IPB
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Writing Debate, following Grace's "Rose", Debate Here
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 16 05, 17:03
Post #1





Guest






Hi J

Sorry to be awkward - I love Bond films for their escapist comedy but hate the books. (John LeCarre famously called them "Candy Floss"). Also, I don't really like books about or with children.
LOL, you're not being awkward.  You like what you like and hate what you hate.  Since you don't like books about or with children,  I'll shut up as I only tend to read books with or about children.

To be positive, I am most interested in characterisation and motive - which is one reason why espionage is fascinating. I don't really like much action in books - although some action does show character and advance the plot (though I'm not gripped by plot either.) Does this help: Love Inspector Morse (especially tv), hate Agatha Christie's books?
I get completely lost in espionage.  I get totally confused as to who is on what side.  I enjoyed Agatha Christie when I was about 14, though I couldn't read her books now.  I've never watched Inspector Morse.  Characterisation is good up to a point, to create 3 dimensional realistic characters but there does need to be some action to keep the attention going.  I hate books that get bogged down in details and description.  I lose interest quickly.  I like a book that keeps you gripped and reluctant to put it down.

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jul 16 05, 17:12
Post #2





Guest






Hi Nina

>N>I like a book that keeps you gripped and reluctant to put it down.

Of course - I completely agree. I think the only difference is that action and plot don't do that for me, whereas a detailed look at characters and their ideas, motivations and so on does. I find most action-espionage books silly. (Eg Alistair McClain, F Forsyth). And I'm not into whodunnits - even with Morse on tv, I don't care who did it - just find the characters fascinating.

I certainly don't want you to shut up - have fascinating discussions. But years of facing and dealing with hundreds of children daily put me off ever having them myself or ever wanting to read about them. However, as long as they are interesting characters and not at all childish, that's fine.

I hate books which are bogged down in stated description, too. We have to see the characters under pressure, in conflict and so on - but the action necessary to show this can be minimal.

J.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jul 16 05, 16:41
Post #3





Guest






Hi Nina,

Sorry to be awkward - I love Bond films for their escapist comedy but hate the books. (John LeCarre famously called them "Candy Floss"). Also, I don't really like books about or with children.

To be positive, I am most interested in characterisation and motive - which is one reason why espionage is fascinating. I don't really like much action in books - although some action does show character and advance the plot (though I'm not gripped by plot either.) Does this help: Love Inspector Morse (especially tv), hate Agatha Christie's books?
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 16 05, 14:51
Post #4





Guest






Hi J

Yup, I think you've convinced me that Potter certainly isn't for me - thanks! (mean it, saves the pain of trying to read it).
LOL, it seems like you're best keeping well clear of HP given your dislike of all the subjects covered.  Perhaps  Anthony Horowitz - Alex Ryder series is more your type of read (very popular especially with boys) sort of boy meets James Bond.  MI6, spies, double dealing.  Not my cup of tea, like James Bond Alex gets out of tricky situations a bit too conveniently.

Oooer I think I spend too much time reading children's books

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jul 16 05, 14:34
Post #5





Guest






Ah!

Thanks Nina - you've explained it all!

>N>for a start, like a lot of books you need to read more than 5 pages to get into the story.

No it wasn't getting into it that was the problem - it was lasting for a whole five pages whilst desperate to escape: I hated it.

>N> People like it because it deals with magic, fantasy, boarding school, wicked uncle (ergo wicked step-mothers)

Well, there's four subject which don't appeal. Magic and fantasy never have. I try to escape school things and Wicked Uncle sounds too much like pantos (I hated pantos, even as a child).

>N> good v. evil,

Yup, OK most things deal with that - but I don't really believe in absolutes. (Sometime hard not to, I know).

>N>adventure, mystery, narrow escapes - I could go on.

Nope not really my things either. Mystery might be - but has to be human, not magical. Adventure - ok if excellent characters. I'm into John LeCarre, not thriller writers.

>N> It isn't necessarily the best writing around but it does get children (and adults) excited about reading in a way that no other author has done since perhaps Enid Blyton (I read every book of hers that I could lay my hands on)

I liked Brer Rabbit but didn't like Famous Five and Secret Seven (dog excepted) nor Noddy. But the three Brer Rabbit books (Based on the American Uncle Remus stories) I loved.

Yup, I think you've convinced me that Potter certainly isn't for me - thanks! (mean it, saves the pain of trying to read it).

J.




 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 16 05, 14:22
Post #6





Guest






Hi J
oh dear... Harry Potter - now perhaps you'll tell me why people like reading that? I'm just as bemused. I tried five pages and had to escape.
for a start, like a lot of books you need to read more than 5 pages to get into the story.  People like it because it deals with magic, fantasy, boarding school, wicked uncle (ergo wicked step-mothers) good v. evil, adventure, mystery, narrow escapes - I could go on.  It isn't necessarily the best writing around but it does get children (and adults) excited about reading in a way that no other author has done since perhaps Enid Blyton (I read every book of hers that I could lay my hands on)

Nina

P.S.  apologies Grace for hyjacking your tile.




 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cybele
post Jul 15 05, 16:16
Post #7


Ornate Oracle
******

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,660
Joined: 23-August 03
From: Somerset, England
Member No.: 22
Real Name: Grace
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



Hi This has been copied because a debate arose (!)

If you wish to crit Grace's work please go to the topic "Rose," listed in FreeVerse and offer your crit there. Thank you. J.

ROSE


Her flame hair;
like tongues of fire
fanned by the  breeze,
licks at cornstalks
as she races barefoot
through a summer field.

A golden child;
supple as a dancer,
nimble as a stream
she dances to nature’s tune;
head thrown back to
commune with clouds.

At dusk the flame dwindles.
Swinging her high onto
my shoulders I bear
my drooping Rose homeward
with her pockets full of daisies.


(All rights reserved by Grace Galton as an unpublished work)






·······IPB·······

Love

Grace


http://mysite.orange.co.uk/graceingreece

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


Nominate a tile for the Crown Jewels and Faery Awards today! For details, go to the Valley of the Kings!



MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 15 05, 16:25
Post #8





Guest






Hi Grace

A sweet lovely poem of childhood innocence, imagination and energy.  It reminds me of times spent with my children making daisy chains to wear round their necks and kept till they wilted and died.

No nits, just enjoyment

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cybele
post Jul 15 05, 16:31
Post #9


Ornate Oracle
******

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,660
Joined: 23-August 03
From: Somerset, England
Member No.: 22
Real Name: Grace
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



Hi Nina,

QUOTE
A sweet lovely poem of childhood innocence, imagination and energy.  It reminds me of times spent with my children making daisy chains to wear round their necks and kept till they wilted and died.

No nits, just enjoyment


Thank you Nina. I just had to write something to tide me over till I get back from holiday next week, with a few snaps and some memories to glean, I hope.  :block:


·······IPB·······

Love

Grace


http://mysite.orange.co.uk/graceingreece

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


Nominate a tile for the Crown Jewels and Faery Awards today! For details, go to the Valley of the Kings!



MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 15 05, 16:35
Post #10





Guest






Hi Grace

Hope you have a wonderful holiday.  Are you riding the waves?  Don't forget your notepad to capture those moments of inspiration.

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jul 15 05, 17:08
Post #11





Guest






Dear Grace,

ROSE

Her flame hair;
like tongues of fire
fanned by the breeze,
licks at cornstalks
as she races barefoot
through a summer field.

A golden child;
supple as a dancer,
nimble as a stream -- avoid 2nd "as" - how bout "like" ?
dances to nature’s tune; -- I think I'd start line with "she" ?
head thrown back to -- head thrown back
commune with clouds. -- communing with the clouds ?

At dusk the flame dwindles. -- semi-c - there seems to be continuance in next sentence ?
Swinging her high onto -- no cap
my shoulders I bear
my drooping rose homeward -- Rose in caps ?
with pockets full of daisies. -- her pockets ? my pockets ?

As you know, Grace, toss it all if you so wish !

Love
Alan
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cybele
post Jul 15 05, 17:47
Post #12


Ornate Oracle
******

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,660
Joined: 23-August 03
From: Somerset, England
Member No.: 22
Real Name: Grace
Writer of: Poetry & Prose





Hello Alan,

QUOTE
A golden child;
supple as a dancer,
nimble as a stream -- avoid 2nd "as" - how bout "like" ?
dances to nature’s tune; -- I think I'd start line with "she" ?
head thrown back to -- head thrown back
commune with clouds. -- communing with the clouds ?


Think I'll keep the second 'as' Alan, for the rhythm.

L4 Yes, I like she at the beginning, after the two shorter preceding lines.

I had considered communing Alan, but I am not too fond of 'ing' words. I know they are considered feminine rhymes but this whole poem is feminine so I don't want to gild the lily too much (or in this instance, the rose.  laugh.gif  )


QUOTE
At dusk the flame dwindles. -- semi-c - there seems to be continuance in next sentence ?
Swinging her high onto -- no cap
my shoulders I bear
my drooping rose homeward -- Rose in caps ?
with pockets full of daisies. -- her pockets ? my pockets ?


L1 I used a full stop here because I considered this a complete action. Rather like a puppy, this small child has used up every bit of energy and collapsed in a heap of tiredness. After this complete picture the narrator then goes into action.

I deliberately didn't use a capital r for rose because, although that is the child's name, the father is referring to her as a flower folding at the end of the day. Would that still warrant a capital R do you think Alan?

Ooops! This last line is what gave me the poem and it SHOULD read
With her pockets full of daisies. Glad you spotted it Alan. Thank you.


·······IPB·······

Love

Grace


http://mysite.orange.co.uk/graceingreece

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


Nominate a tile for the Crown Jewels and Faery Awards today! For details, go to the Valley of the Kings!



MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cybele
post Jul 15 05, 18:01
Post #13


Ornate Oracle
******

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,660
Joined: 23-August 03
From: Somerset, England
Member No.: 22
Real Name: Grace
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



[b]HiNina,

QUOTE
Hope you have a wonderful holiday.  Are you riding the waves?  Don't forget your notepad to capture those moments of inspiration.


We will be a group of 16 friends and family in two chartered yachts sailing around Majorca. Usually finish up with a water bomb fight after the final race!
Last year my son Sean decided to spice up the water bombs with tomato puree (to simulate blood, he says). It was great fun till we had to swab the decks.  Pirate.gif

Have copied the times ten challenge words in case I have a idle moment. rofl.gif Hope to get some good pics too.
wave.gif






·······IPB·······

Love

Grace


http://mysite.orange.co.uk/graceingreece

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


Nominate a tile for the Crown Jewels and Faery Awards today! For details, go to the Valley of the Kings!



MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jul 15 05, 18:06
Post #14





Guest






Dear Grace,

OK on all the points, but I would cap Rose, yes, it could be ref to a flower, but since the name seems to be in the title, I would accept it as a name, and expect the cap - otherwise it seems to snag attention, thus spoiling the flow.

Or -- without cap it snags, with cap it obviously means the girl's name, but can still bear that other connotation as well.

Love
Alan

Btw, I meant to say earlier, for quite a few lines I thought this was a poem about a brush fire ! With very little change, it could be ....
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Cybele
post Jul 16 05, 02:07
Post #15


Ornate Oracle
******

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 3,660
Joined: 23-August 03
From: Somerset, England
Member No.: 22
Real Name: Grace
Writer of: Poetry & Prose



Hello Alan, knight.gif

Last round up before I set off.

QUOTE
OK on all the points, but I would cap Rose, yes, it could be ref to a flower, but since the name seems to be in the title, I would accept it as a name, and expect the cap - otherwise it seems to snag attention, thus spoiling the flow.

Or -- without cap it snags, with cap it obviously means the girl's name, but can still bear that other connotation as well.


Okey Dokey ~ you've convinced me.  :pharoah2


QUOTE
BTW, I meant to say earlier, for quite a few lines I thought this was a poem about a brush fire ! With very little change, it could be.


Ah, But she was a little brush fire - metaphorically speaking!

BTW You never mentioned whether you thought it was any good ~ or not??


·······IPB·······

Love

Grace


http://mysite.orange.co.uk/graceingreece

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


Nominate a tile for the Crown Jewels and Faery Awards today! For details, go to the Valley of the Kings!



MM Award Winner
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jul 16 05, 02:44
Post #16





Guest






Hi Grace -

Suggestions: [add] {omit} (comments) - as always, As You Like It.

For V1 I have simply shown the suggestions.

ROSE (Good, strong, simple title - but did mislead me - Until the second verse, I thought this was about a rose flower in a cornfield).

Suggestion - V1

Her flame hair -
tongues of fire,
fanned by breezes,
licks at cornstalks
as she races barefoot
through Summer’s field.

I suggested the punctuation because I fine this too long to read so was taking breaths anywhichwhere.

I think using “summer’s” gives the poem a rather more philosophical stance without damaging the message, Perhaps expands it to mean all of her childhood.

“the” jarred me and all that was needed was to make “breezes” plural. Besides, the best Summer’s breeze is actually air wafting hither and thither.

Suggest capitalising “Summer”

{she dances}[dancing]  to nature’s tune;

At dusk {the} flame {dwindles} [flickers OR falters].
Swinging her high onto
my shoulders[,] (line split)
I bear my drooping Rose (line split)
homeward[,] {with} her pockets full of daisies.

(“Drooping Rose” - brill phrase)

Thus:

At dusk flame flickers.
Swinging her high onto my shoulders,
I bear my drooping Rose
homeward...
her pockets full of daisies.

Thanks for the read of this gentle and lovely poem, Grace.

J.
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Billydo_*
post Jul 16 05, 03:58
Post #17





Guest






Delightfully innocent depiction of a child. This something wonderful about watching a played-out child slump into sleep in your arms, or the sudden shift in weight as they drift-off on your shoulders. Caught here.

Brill!
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Jox_*
post Jul 16 05, 04:08
Post #18





Guest






>M>Delightfully innocent depiction of a child. This something wonderful about watching a played-out child slump into sleep in your arms, or the sudden shift in weight as they drift-off on your shoulders. Caught here.

Well, yes but if the sleeping dead-weight is anything like my English Setters, when sleeping on me, it hurts, too! (They also jerk their heads betwixt my shoulder and chest, thus bashing my nose).
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest__*
post Jul 16 05, 04:18
Post #19





Guest






Dear Grace,

You are quite right, I did not say it was good.

I suppose I've become blase - ALL you stuff is good, otherwise I would not wish to "polish" up the facets !

Have a lovely sail holiday. Rather you than me !

Love
Alan
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
Guest_Nina_*
post Jul 16 05, 11:01
Post #20





Guest






Hi Grace, Mike, James

>M>Delightfully innocent depiction of a child. This something wonderful about watching a played-out child slump into sleep in your arms, or the sudden shift in weight as they drift-off on your shoulders. Caught here.

Well, yes but if the sleeping dead-weight is anything like my English Setters, when sleeping on me, it hurts, too! (They also jerk their heads betwixt my shoulder and chest, thus bashing my nose).

yes, a sleeping child can be heavy (never been nose-butted though) but as Mike says there is something wonderful about watching and feeling a child fall asleep in your arms, on your shoulder or chest, a feeling of the total trust they put in you to look after them, protect them.  The warmth and tranquillity coming from them.  I'm sure despite the discomfort you get the same feeling with your Setters.

Nina
 
+Quote Post  Go to the top of the page
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st October 2019 - 22:14




Read our FLYERS - click below



Reference links provided to aid in fine-tuning your writings. ENJOY!

more Quotes
more Art Quotes
Dictionary.com ~ Thesaurus.com

Search:
for
Type in a word below to find its rhymes, synonyms, and more:

Word: