The US Federal Government's Lack of Action, New Orleans & The South USA Options

[Guest_Jox_*]

Lori suggested porting this here - so I have done so...

What I don't understand from this side of the Pond is the US Federal Government's (lack of) reaction. I saw GW Bush on tv asking people to give donations to Sally Army and Red Cross. Why? Shouldn't the Government get on and rescue people. I'm completely bewildered that the richest nation on Earth should just abandon people for four or five days whilst society breaks down. Of course, going in is not easy but no attempts at much were made for so long. Many people are saying that the rich powerful men in Washington (at best) don't have a clue about the urban poor of the south - let along the racial issue which is being discussed by the hour on tv over here.

However, that was me being gentle over in that tile. Here I would like to know why the US Government should not be charged with negligent homicide and crimes against humanity. It has presided over many deaths which were preventable. Most people are poor and many black. How much does that tell us about the powerful white Republican establishment in DC?

If the people in this disaster had been New England white liberals, would help have come quicker? There is much discussion on UK tv that this represents a major racial schist in the USA and that the black poor don’t matter to the white republicans. I’m not actually sure I agree with that - as far as I can see this simply looks like massive incompetence. I marvel at the fact that Clinton was impeached for having an affair with his associate simply to attack his liberal regime - using Star as the battering ram - but GWB will probably serve-out his time in office after precising over what seems tantamount to mass murder.

The weather situation was known. But why were the urban poor (mainly black) populations not evacuated? Because they couldn’t afford it? Because they had no cars? Because no one cared?

OK to be logical for a moment we have split responsibilities here. It is hard for a Brit to appreciate that States and local governments do not appreciate having their jurisdictions infringed by the US Federal Government. The US is a federation: to a large degree individual states are politically independent. So the initial failure may be fairly charged at the New Orleans and Louisiana authorities; they must have cases to answer. Of course, they may have asked for Federal assistance then - I don’t know yet.

But from the moment the weather system hit the US State had a responsibility. Instead it has allowed people to thirst to death, to die from lack of medical care, from violence in a society which has partially dived into anarchy. TV showed the New Orleans Police giving up I believe. One can’t blame them - the disaster was overwhelming.

Overwhelming is that a defence? Nope. Because the US could deploy people far faster; break-out reserves of water, food, medicine far faster. The European Union (including the UK) have asked the US if they would like humanitarian assistance. None (to my knowledge) has been taken up. Why? Because the US can cope? Well it should be able to and may be it can but it has not hitherto. Is there a political fear that such aid would be politically damaging to this dreadful President? Important to save the No1 skin, of course.

Troops had to be diverted from humanitarian relief to tackle looters, violent criminals, murderers. Why has that city broken down so quickly? Might existing poverty and deprivation have been factors? Hour upon hour here in the UK we’re seeing women plea that gangs are raping people, others hold babies aloft to the camera, pleading for their lives to be spared from disease and thirst. These are scenes fit for Dante’s Inferno, played out in the Southern swamplands of Louisiana.

Those of us who regard the US as one of our very top international friends are horrified at the state of affairs. Globally, everyone will be appalled at the humanitarian catastrophe that has suddenly happened. As a friend we should be ready to give any human assistance at all which is needed - and we are.  But we should also make sure the utter disgust and contempt, which we feel towards the appalling way in which this crisis has been allowed to fester, over the rotting corpses of New Orleans especially, is voiced. (There are many other places too but their situation - terrible as it is - is not quite as awful). The US Federal Government is only responsible to the US people - I do hope they let no one in the Administration off the hook. But, also, there is a wider responsibility in terms of human care - we are all concerned about that. So we can all, in our own ways, try to help hold the US Federal Government to account.,, if only to maintain pressure to help those that still desperately need it.
J.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori, et al,

Gosh, ok I’ll do my best...

>L>Let me start by saying this: I hope that everyone affected by the worst natural disaster in our history gets all the help they need at this tragic time. That is most crucial to over-coming the obstacles. I am only addressing the points that James raises. Everyone will have their own opinions and I welcome them. I am not stating I agree with what I state below, just what is known.

Jox writes: The weather situation was known. But why were the urban poor (mainly black) populations not evacuated? Because they couldn’t afford it? Because they had no cars? Because no one cared?

>L>As late as Satuday morning, it was still a category 1 hurricane, just off the Floriday coast. Nobody expected it to grow in 24 hours to over a category 5 hurricane before weakening slightly and making landfall as a category 4. How can anyone evacuate a half million people in less than 24 hours regardless of their color?

Sorry, not good enough. The authorities allowed zillions of private cars to block the highways out - private cars carrying the wealthier people. If they were serious about evacuating people they could have used the Hercules and Galaxy USAF transporters to gather buses from anywhere in the US and take the down south. They could have made bus lanes available for evacuation - and used those (now empty) military planes to get people out too. Private cars could have used remaining lanes. I don’t know the railway system down there but, if there is one, that would be another important method of evacuation. Finally, civil airliners could have been hired or commandeered (I see to remember that the US Government ground all air within hours - nothing like 24 hours -  traffic when terrorists hit - and maybe far more people have been killed this time. But, of course, that was DC and NYC again, not the deep south.)

If you say regardless of their colour why is it that the blacks make up the vast majority of those remaining and dying, whilst the whites makes up the vast majority of those who escaped? Easy - the white were able to buy their way out of Hell with private motoring. Don’t get me wrong, those who escaped have and are having a dreadful time, too. Awful. But they did, at least get out. The simple answer is that the blacks represent the vast majority of the urban poor (UK is the same, in terms of ethnic groups being in that category) . The authorities knew this and they new mass exodus was necessary. They have had decades to draw-up plans. This was not as instant as you say in that sense - many people knew that New Orleans was very vulnerable.

Jox writes: OK to be logical for a moment we have split responsibilities here. It is hard for a Brit to appreciate that States and local governments do not appreciate having their jurisdictions infringed by the US Federal Government. The US is a federation: to a large degree individual states are politically independent. So the initial failure may be fairly charged at the New Orleans and Louisiana authorities; they must have cases to answer. Of course, they may have asked for Federal assistance then - I don’t know yet.

>L>What happens in this country is that the state must first ask for help before the federal government does anything (by law). It's been know since Camille hit the area in 1969 that this problem could happen again. The state of Louisiana did not make significant strides in increasing the size of the levee walls, pumping stations, building code etc. It does not make a difference who is in the White House, the reaction from the federal authorities would have been no different. Once the request is made, it takes time to get the appropriate logistical resources in place. We just don't have 20,000 army reservists sitting at the ready at their homes bases, (even without wars going on) waiting to handle a disaster.

Because the National Guard and Army reservists have been sent on their criminal, bloody and insane mission into Iraq - along with much of the UK’s troops too. I support the Americans who say that Bush was far more interested in squashing Iraq than helping his own country. Blair is just the same. The sooner these two evil men are booted out the better. But, ok, the troops may have been on other duties which were legitimate.

I do know (as I mentioned) that the local / regional authorities have jurisdiction - but thanks for the precise law, appreciate that (didn’t know it).

I did also say that the local authorities may be culpable. I don’t know when they first asked the Federal Government for assistance. Does anyone yet, please?

As regards the figures about not having the troops - I don’t have them to hand (would have to spend a while searching the US Department of Defense site) but I’m certain that  more than 20,000 US troops are abroad in action - the UK probably has something approaching that and the US operations are far bigger.

>L>Plus, most of the people from the area are so entrenched in the area, that they go back to their same house for generations. A hundred miles away is a big deal to them to travel, so they don't have their own forms of transportation at the ready cuz they just haven't needed it.  Remember, they also survived Camille and any number of storms that have come through over the years and even after the limited evacuation attempts that were possible once the severity of THIS storm were known, CHOSE to ride it out anyway.

Emm, not according to the US web sites I’ve read. Now I don’t know local law there but as I understood it the NO Mayor ordered an evacuation and that was legally binding. In t’other words people would be breaking the law by remaining. Is that incorrect? Now, if that is so, the Mayor just forgot one thing - transportation. Not 100% of people would have been evacuated of course - some would have hidden. But look at the tens of thousands who did remain. If the NO authorities can’t even enforce their own law what hope is there now?

Bush’s response was pathetic. He admits as much himself. He flew over in Airforce 1 and marvelled at the damage. Played to the cameras. Dreadful. But I never did entirely blame Bush - I blamed the whole US Federal Administration - or at least, that part with any interest in their country. And I did question if the local authorities were responsible. There was time - people were being killed last night in that city and dying last night. That is not 24 hours after. It is days.

Jox writes: But from the moment the weather system hit the US State had a responsibility. Instead it has allowed people to thirst to death, to die from lack of medical care, from violence in a society which has partially dived into anarchy. TV showed the New Orleans Police giving up I believe. One can’t blame them - the disaster was overwhelming.

>L>Yes, the individual states had a responsibility to react as swiftly as possible. The storm upgraded SO FAST they didn't have time to react and now they're faced with severe logistical issues. How do you get into the area? Bridges and highways are gone (washed out), other streets are littered with debris (including downed power lines), there was even a 6 foot shark that was swimming the streets along with many 'gators'. The area is still under FEET and FEET of water. The only ways available are helicopter and boat. So, the helicopters arrive, start trying to pick people out, and the people start shooting at them! What the HELL? They are trying to help!

The need to get into the area fast would have been lessened if more people had been evacuated. OK that’s not the situation, so... The other “told you so” would be the US gun culture. Why the gun shops to break into? Why private guns as they are? Of course there would still be some but the endemic nature of the gun culture and the NRA’s support for these lethal weapons keeps enabling so many Americans to die from gun wounds each minute, hour week...

Sure these problems exist. A BBC film crew easily travelled the NO to Baton Rouge road yesterday. No troops, no relief. Almost one knew it was open. Ok, that one aside. The US military have thousands upon thousands of lorries and semi-aquatic vehicles available for just this sort of work. They and the USN have hundreds or thousands of smaller boats suitable. But the Bush Administration failed to send them in until late in the week. I’ve seen all the pictures and, yes almost all roads are useless. But water, like all elements has its plus and its minus. In this case, its plus is the new canals can act as a form of route to get resources in and people out. That, of course, is if the Federal Government wasn’t too busy polishing its image to actually provide a few boats to carry and goods to be carried. It would have been decent of them.

I’m not angry with the people shooting at helicopters and raping people. they are beyond anger and, in this situation, simply need eliminating as quickly as possible. I am angry with the people who seek office and enjoy its trappings and power but who don’t know how to or can’t be arsed to fulfil their responsibilities. The electorate didn’t plead with Bush to stand - he pleaded for their votes. Now where is his side of that contract?

>L>Then there's the issues of looting. Yes, I would most likely do it if a grocery store situation too, since the food will go bad anyway and water is so desperately needed. However, some of the folks robbed nursing homes, kicking the occupants out into the streets (most in wheelchairsand on med equipment), gunnery shops (and now have automatic weapons in hand), among many other stores. The police pulled back because they were out-numbered and out-gunned. How can one blame this behavior on lack of governmental action?

Well, again their are issues which date back. Poor education and care etc. Also, the “me, me , me” attitude which the Republican party fosters. Lower taxes and screw the poor. We saw it here too with the Tories - not an exclusively American thing. But the Republicans are in power there. They cannot lower taxes then claim they don’t have emergency resources available. They cannot send big chunks of the Louisiana National Guard to repress Iraqis then claim no personnel. Money and resources to kill foreigners but not to save Americans. Again, the evil of the Bush administration - and, for that matter, the Blair Government, too (who are - in theory- a socialist government, by the way).

Jox writes: Overwhelming is that a defence? Nope. Because the US could deploy people far faster; break-out reserves of water, food, medicine far faster. The European Union (including the UK) have asked the US if they would like humanitarian assistance. None (to my knowledge) has been taken up. Why? Because the US can cope? Well it should be able to and may be it can but it has not hitherto. Is there a political fear that such aid would be politically damaging to this dreadful President? Important to save the No1 skin, of course.

>L>Whoever was in power, the results would have been the same. The local government bears primary responsibility and has failed for 30 years to do what would be necessary to protect a city that is on the coast and is 20 feet below sea-level. It was only a matter of time before a storm did this.

Well if people knew that that is also a failure by the Federal Government, over time. Because it has an overall duty to protect America and Americans. So it should have pressurised the area to sort the mess out. Obviously that affects the administrations of Bush Junior (2), Clinton (2), Bush senior, Regan (2), Carter, Ford. That is six Republican admins compared to three Democrat, by the way. Not that the Democrats are less culpable when they were there.

To say “it was only a matter of time” is horrific to me. If the American people knew this why did they en masse not campaign for action? It is sometimes said that democracies get the governments which they deserve. Maybe the US and UK are experiencing that now.

I don’t agree that the results would have been the same. Where is the evidence that Bush ever cared for the poor urban blacks. I’m sure he’s no racist - he’s done more to promote blacks to high political office than any other President, I think. But what has he ever done for the poor without a voice? Oh yes as Governor of Texas he sent many to their deaths, despite much evidence against the charges and poor court procedures. (I’m not against the death penalty if the right people are certainly convicted but Texas procedures were a sick joke.) We did the same with IRA suspects in the 1970s but at least we didn’t murder them so they could be released eventually. This looks like being Bush’s best bag of the poor yet. I’m sure he intended no one to die - but what did he do to stop it? It was HIS job from the impact and even before, he was a southern man - what did he do to shed light on dangerous policies?

Jox writes: Troops had to be diverted from humanitarian relief to tackle looters, violent criminals, murderers. Why has that city broken down so quickly? Might existing poverty and deprivation have been factors? Hour upon hour here in the UK we’re seeing women plea that gangs are raping people, others hold babies aloft to the camera, pleading for their lives to be spared from disease and thirst. These are scenes fit for Dante’s Inferno, played out in the Southern swamplands of Louisiana.

>L>Yes, this is sadly true. It might have been so, however, do people in a time of unusual crisis not have a responsibility to assist each other until other resources can arrive? What I see on the news is the stronger taking complete advantage of the weaker within their own neighborhoods. It sickens me, IMO! Yes, the scenes could be from a movie. But horrifically, they are real.

It is sickening, yes But it would not have been like that with a fast response.

>L>It takes time to get ships to sail into the area and as of yesterday, supplies, a medical ship and 10,000 troups have been giving out food, water and other supplies. The situation likely wold have been significantly different if there were more than 24 hours warning before landfall. Yes, we could discuss all the politicing involved, however, as you all know, I don't like to talk politics.

Ten thousand is far too few - and that was only yesterday.

But you are talking politics, Lori. This is nothing but politics. The politics of failure decades before - as you correctly say. The politics of failure just 24 hours before, as you mentioned. And the vacuum of politics in the days afterwards. The politics of failure and the failure of politics. One of political science is that when politics breaks down there is war. That is what happened in NO with the gun gangs. The political vacuum filled by the violent urban sub-cultures. This whole thing is political and nothing but.

>L>This is similar to what we saw when Hurricane Andrew hit Florida.

That would be Jeb Bush’s state would it not? Any relation to his dynamic brother perchance? Those hanging chads were really worth the effort, obviously.

>L>Perry provides excellent links which talk about the politics behind FEMA and how $71 million was cut from levee construction a year ago to fund Homeland Security. What about the other 29 years that the local government had?

But the Feds over time should have taken the states to task. No they cannot walk over their toes but they can publicise matters - and should.

Also, you say the previous 29 years but this damage was done after the 30th. Real Politick. And it’s great that Bush has done so much for Homeland security - it saves people from terrorism allowing them to die, comfortably from drowning, over-heating, thirst, lack of medication or just being clubbed to death or shot by some fellow citizens. Important that level of care in the community. We all have to go and it is good that, when the time comes, we can go near our home, with our loved ones round. Just a pity if we’re still a baby or young person or an elderly person who simply wants a drink. But at least Bush has beefed up Homeland Security. I hope America is grateful. (Of course, if he hadn’t cut taxes, too...) But hey the Southern poor don’t benefit much from tax cuts as they don’t pay many taxes as they don’t earn much. Oh and no many vote Republican, either (even the survivors).

>L>Again, this sounds cruel on my part, it is not. It is not meant to be at all. But the federal goverment in our system does not bear primary responsibilty for local disaster preparedness. Even now, with Homeland Security and the other joke agencies that were created, the vast majority of disaster budget planning, falls on local authorities.  We are doing what can be done with floating hospitals, blood drives, food, clothing etc... that we can manage along with evacuations to Texas Astrodome (350 miles away) with the resources that arrive daily (that CAN get to the heart of the city). It boils down to this:

1) A lack of time before it hit.
2) People taking control by sinful means.
3) Local authorities lack of foresight.

I don’t think you’re cruel. Let’s not personalise this. nowt is your fault. My argument is with Bush and his cronies. Nothing to do with you and me. We didn’t seek election. I can’t be elected US President as I was born in the UK and would not have allegiance there. You can’t because you’re a woman and understand argument, not a self-confident yob in a suit. (Yes, I know no law prevents women from being elected, ta).

Sin is a strange concept so I’ll leave that aside. But I doubt we’re far apart there.

>L>It didn't matter where it hit, rich, poor, middle-class. If given the same circumstances had a storm hit Miami for example, the results would be similar. Although the effects might have been slightly shorter lived because the waters would have receded faster and ground access to the area is easier when you're not dealing with what is effectively a bunch a small islands. I had visited Miami shortly after Andrew hit and it was devastating to see. However, in time, it turns itself around.  If you google Hurricane Andrew looting, you'll see 42,000+ hits.

It is not which groups it hit it is which groups it did the most damage to. In the main, the white middle classes escaped. In the main the black under-classes didn’t - again, they had no private transportation and the local authorities couldn’t be arsed to save their lives. Following the disaster, the authorities couldn’t be arsed either. Anyway, dead people don’t complain, do they?

It is not the hurricane that matters here - no one and nothing was going to stop that. It is (from your info) that the problem has been known for three decades and nowt done. It is that the authorities didn’t bother providing evacuation facilities for the masses of poor people. It is that, given the poor remained, the authorities did nothing to help them for far too long. Nobody cared about these people. One suspects that the most convenient thing for the politicians in DC would be if they’d been washed away with the detritus. Maybe that’s too harsh but it is beginning to look that way. Remember, Politics DC is a long way from reality - it is even a long way from what happens in the city itself, let along NO.

Looting doesn’t especially bother me (apart from your example of people being hurt). All the stocks will have to be scrapped anyway so better the people have the supplies to enjoy now. As regards looting non-essentials well, again, I suspect all hi-fis etc will be scrapped anyway so it doesn’t matter. Let the people loot if needs be but get them supplies and stop the gun crime.

In time it turns itself around? Sure. I have little doubt that NO will rebuild but there are an awful lot of dead people who won’t be there to see the happier times.

>L>We're left with attempting to pick up the pieces as best we can, as swiftly as we can. We can do it, but time is required.

Yes those who survive will but what about the thousand who have died because of governmental incompetence? Should we take out one politician for each person lost and shoot them? After all, it is a free country - no one had to stand for election but given they stood they have responsibilities. And that means a darn site more than flying over the disaster zone in Airforce One, looking out of the windows with tv cameras watching and looking concerned. Bush does concern very well - I’m sure the people of the South were very impressed. I wonder for how many, the sound of his plane’s engines were the llast thing they heard, as they died on the streets of New Orleans?

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Thanks for your posting Lori, appreciated. Interesting points.

J.