Poetic Fashion Options

[Guest_Nina_*]

Fran has raised the question of use of adverbs being unfashionable a couple of times on threads  which I hope she doesn't mind me quoting.

Is there a single verb for 'tread eagerly' that would let you loose the adverb? I quite like adverbs (as does JKR, lol), but they are rather unfashionable these days

again, would 'loom' or similar enable you to loose 'tower menacingly' ?

Why is it unfashionable?

Why should one follow the trend and lose the adverbs simply because it is not the "cool" thing to do so?

Who dictates what is or isn't the "in" style?

I thought poetry was about originality, leading not following and personally I can't understand this point of view.

Discuss please.

Nina

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Nina, Fran, et al.

Firstly, in any and all walks of life, I couldn't care a toss about fashions. They are simply approaches put up by people with big heads (or wanting big profits) and followed by the proverbial lambs, until someone else has the guts / nous to start a new one.

That said, if one wants to be published...

Then, again, by the time most sheep jump on the band wagon it's well on the way to the abattoir and a new fashion is taking its place.

(Aren't mixed metaphors topping fun?!)

For me, poetry is a deep expression of feelings / ideas / observations etc. Moreover, it is using precise language finely honed (that is NOT to say it has to be minimalist or owt like). Poetry, for me, is the pinnacle of writing; no form of writing condenses so much meaning and / or emotion into such a package. There can be as much (more) in a poem as any novel. Indeed, there often is. But, of course, the reader often has to bring more to poetry than to a novel. (some novels excepted). Think of poetry as a reader/writer romance and novels as pornography - as we gaze-in. (I love novels - reading and writing so NOT slamming them; just in awe of poetry).

What is bad language in poetry?

One has to admit there must be a long-term fashionable element (cultural changes). If someone writes in the style of Shakespeare then we’d say that is old-fashioned. It would not necessarily be good nor bad - just olden. I expect most poets to write in today’s language unless they have a good reason not to (e.g. JGD - Ron - intentionally writes “as the poets of yore” and does it brilliantly). [Hope that doesn’t sound patronising - I mean it].

However, general trends (fashion) - I’d ignore them 100% (but then no one has published my poetry).

As regards adjectives and adverbs - they might still be undesirable, regardless of fashions?

I think they can bog us down if over-used. I suppose it is exposition as opposed to demonstration (that horrid (tell / show phrase).

Generally it is thought better to demonstrate something that to simply explain it - especially by piling on heaps of description. However, we must remember that poems are not short stories in the prose sense. Each word needs to work hard and try not to duplicate (save for special effect / emphasis). So piles of extra description may sound tedious and may not be tight writing.

I would judge matters on that: does it help or hinder the writing?

I have focussed on poetry but, in reality, good prose is also tightly written. I’m convinced that poets can write better prose than pure prose writers (in general) as long as they are careful with alliteration etc. So write right demonstration in poetry and prose can follow. Having said that, I think much good poetry is exposition (from the heart, so to speak) we must just be careful of over-egging the descriptive puddings.

Thanks Nina.

Toodle Pip,

J.