Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 2 05, 08:43

Hi all.  

Recently, a discussion began regarding the idea of creating a new category of forums (would be located at the bottom of the board) titled "Member Showcase" that would house your own works.

This category would contain a forum for EACH of our Admins, Praetorians, Centurions and Gold Members where you could COPY and PASTE your own works to serve as a centralized record of works you choose to put there (forums ON REQUEST) - NO CRITS. This would be a place where you can keep track of your selected works.

I could do a few things in the forum set-up:
[*]Make it so only the groups mentioned above could start, read and reply to topics.
[*]Make it read-only for our Silver & Bronze members.
[*]Make it available to guests.

Some of the feedback I've received thus far include;

QUOTE

I have copies of all my work on my PC anyway, and backed up elsewhere. I suppose the new system would allow them to stay on MM as an additional backup?

QUOTE

The benefits are endless. Recently ezboard was a part of a mass hacker attack where we lost most (almost all) of our posts. I had a forum I used as a database there, but everything is gone.

Let's say your computer freezes up, and the only way to fix it is to reset it from its original state and this would mean losing all of your files. You would still have your work stored at Mosaic Musings. Let's say that you have works on another site, such as poetry 911-and it crashed, losing it all. You would still have an archive of your work here.

QUOTE

Great idea!

QUOTE

It would be for work that has been posted, critiqued and revised that you feel its a finished piece for others to access, without having to go into forum archives searching. Actually each writer's choice of a small collection of what they consider their best work. No comments or additional crits.

QUOTE

On reflection this seems like a very good idea. Often I want to check back on a posting and this can be a long and tedious business. It would also help when trying to find a particular piece written by another member that I am keen to read again.

I am posting this thread to obtain feedback on this idea. Yours is MOST welcome!

Thanks!
~Cleo    


post script - 08 AUG 2005:

Stay tuned - I am going to revise the initial thread.

My apologies as I am using the wrong techno terms which is causing confusion here with this new idea...

I do not mean that MM will serve as a data storage back-up facility (thanks James, Peter and Don) as I mentioned earlier. My bad.

All we're offering is a specific category for members to put copies of their work(s) making it easier for them and others to browse. I term this as a "reference repository" in my words.

Even if this new category was a back-up, the Terms of Service specifically (in paragraph 14 section b) absolves MM from any legal action resulting from loss of data. We take reasonable precautions to ensure that data will be available in the event of a complete system crash. However, I recommend that you all have a back-up copy of your works somewhere other than on our (or any other forumboards) system.

If our database is lost, it would not affect only this new category of forums, it would wipe out the whole forum board's database. I can assure all that not only do we have our own back-ups but in the event of a crash, we also have an offsite copy (within a couple of days old) and that provider also does tape back-ups too.

Having just said that, I want to say this is a place for selected works copied by the member (which would be the forum names = member names) as they choose to showcase their talent 'at a glance' instead of having to search through every forum for that member's posts. Also, the search feature by member name will populate not only topics started by that member but also all their replies. This is a much more convenient way to read works by a specific member.

Does this clarify my idea?
Cheers!

~Cleo  

Posted by: Cybele Aug 2 05, 08:55

Hi Lori,

I think this is a very good idea.  Not only to quickly locate our own posted pieces, but also to find the poetry and prose of other members when we wish to nominate a piece for some award or simply re-read those lovely pieces that struck a chord with us originally. Also, as we have so many new members, the earlier pieces remain read by just a few.

As we control our own postings we can be sure that only those pieces we wish to refer to or want others to have easy access to are posted to the tiles.

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 2 05, 10:00

Hi Grace.

Thank you!  

I think we'll need to make sure to include in our instructions for this new category (for those who wish a forum there) that the members also provide a LINK (the URL) where the post actually is located on MM (be it in a crit or non crit forum) so the reader is referred to the real thread(s) for their comments. Of course, they could also utilize the 'send a PM' feature too for feedback to the writer directly.

I keep referring to this idea as a 'library of records'. Being such, I am debating whether or not to allow replies there. I think we should NOT allow them so as to keep it purely a repository.

What do you think?

~Cleo  

Posted by: Cybele Aug 2 05, 10:48

Hi Lori,

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 8 05, 05:34

Shall I make a forum for you Grace?

Any other takers please?

~Cleo

Posted by: Jox Aug 8 05, 08:21

Hi Lori,

I don't see the point in copying tiles to a personal forum. However, I can see a point in transferring them. That would mean that tiles would then be archived under individual members’ names, as opposed to in the various forums. This would have big advantages in enabling people to find things more quickly. Purely as a suggestion, I would say posts after two months should be archived like that - on a calendar-months basis. For example,

In August 2005 we should be transferring our work from June 2005 but July’s should be left until September 2005. Or, a three-month gap could be used instead.

Obviously, our awards would have to be made before the transfer date.

An on-line announcement could be made “Please transfer any tiles up to and including July 2005 as soon as you are able” - that sort of thing.

Now, this could become too complex. So staff would transfer their own tiles and other members would compile a hypertext link-list and PM it to staff for transfer (unless we wish to allow everyone to transfer their own ?) Each staff member could have a certain named group of members to look after in this way.

However, staff don’t have time to chase members up nor to go searching for tiles so (no doubt) many tiles would not be archived in this way. However, I think the number that are (just think of the staff for one thing) would clear much congestion.

To slightly go against Grace’s comment (sorry Grace - but this is a different concept) we would then need to allow people to crit all posts in personal forums, else transfer would kill such crits.

In summary: Personal archive forums would replace the role of all other crit forums for archive purposes.

I think this would be a more logical long-term storage of archive material.

The archives would only be available for members’ use because it cuts it off from public gaze. But MM’s shop window would still be there in the previous two months’ “live” crit forums.

That would be my idea.

Just one warning: No one should rely on MM to keep their archives of work. So far all has been well but that would be placing an unfair burden on MM. MM is a crit forum etc not a back-up service per se. We should all keep back-ups.

There are many services and one can use duplicate discs etc. But if your work is very important to you keep some back-ups off site - maybe in your web pages (but make sure they will always be there).

The service I use (no, I don't receive £1 for referrals!) is:

http://www.backupdirect.net/

There are many similar available.

Cheers, J.

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 8 05, 09:16

Hi James.

I'm always looking for ideas - however yours above is not what I had in mind.

I haven't read your whole reply above but I want to be clear - no transferring, nor would the Staff be responsible to copy and paste works for our members.

The works that have been posted in all forums would remain there.

Again, this would be a back-up reference for the members only - no comments, crits allowed - strictly read only (library).

It WOULD be for the member to COPY and paste their own works as they choose to - just the works themselves  - no responses. This is PURELY to serve as a repository by member.

Lori

P.S. Liz has something like this at her site at Poetry911 you can view and also in teh COmmunity of Poets section of Shadow Poetry - click here to view my 'archives' there: http://www.shadowpoetry.com/members/poetryhillmanor.html then click on my mae : Lori Kanter

or go directly to it here:
http://www.shadowpoetry.com/members/poetryhillmanor/628/lorikanter.html

Posted by: Cybele Aug 8 05, 09:49

Hi Lori,
:pharoah2
S

Yes, please Lori. Much appreciated.

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 8 05, 09:54

I'll plan on this week and let you (and all) know when the new category is up and available for use Grace.

Have a fish!

~Cleo :)

Posted by: Jox Aug 8 05, 10:05

Hi Lori,

I was amused by your answer :)

If members can copy their own works that would save tons of work, I agree. I didn't know you would want that but it sounds a better mechanism to me. I only suggested staff copying because I didn't think you'd enabled members to edit their own tiles. But as you say copy / paste, are you thinking of going into edit mode, selecting all the work then closing that edit screen, then opening the new forum and pasting?

That said, such is only the mechanics. I then have a problem of understanding the philosophy here...

What I can't see is the point. I've just visited the page you mentioned and all that is is a links page - why would new forums be needed just for a link list? What is the benefit of duplicating postings?

Cheers, J.

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 8 05, 19:34

Hi J.

AS we discussed in email, the point is to give our members the opportunity to have a back-up database that would house whichever works they want included in their forum. No crits, comments - but a database repository. If ever their personal PC crashes or posts they have on other sites crashes or the site closes, they will have their stored works on MM as they so choose. The yalso won't have to use the search button and other members can read their collections and perhaps gain a new understanding of the 'voice' within them.

This is not a requirement - but a benefit to offer our Gold, Centurion and Praetorian members.

Cheers!
~Cleo

Posted by: Jox Aug 9 05, 05:38

Hi Lori, et al,

I've now received explanations from Larry, Grace and yourself (thank you all) of the logic behind the idea. I have to say that, in each case, I think the logic is flawed. When I say I don't understand, that is the reason. I can see the various arguments but not one has convinced me hitherto.

Having said that please know that if people want these I have no objections. I am only pointing out the big dangers I see (legal, ethical etc).

So, by all means go ahead - but I'd urge all to be careful please.

>L>AS we discussed in email, the point is to give our members the opportunity to have a back-up database that would house whichever works they want included in their forum.

Again, this is the most worrying aspect. MM is not set-up as a back-up service; that is a very specialised area of internet operation. Please make sure that, if you do lose all data, you are covered legally. The ordinary MM terms may cover this - but as you say this is an extension; a new facility - so I would carefully check with your lawyers first. I know you have a RAID system installed - which helps. But supposing there was a fire wherever your computer was and the hard discs were destroyed? Supposing someone had joined who used MM as a back-up and lost some commercially valuable data at the same time. Unlikely? Yes but insurers etc thrive on unlikely events happening sometimes. That is my No1 concern: don't leave yourself open to being sued.

>L>No crits, comments - but a database repository. If ever their personal PC crashes or posts they have on other sites crashes or the site closes, they will have their stored works on MM as they so choose.

As above.

>L>They also won't have to use the search button and other members can read their collections and perhaps gain a new understanding of the 'voice' within them.

Sure, this seems reasonable if people wish to showcase work. I don't use MM as a showcase but, if others do, I see no problems there.

>L>This is not a requirement - but a benefit to offer our Gold, Centurion and Praetorian members.

Sure.

It was also pointed out to me that it will make searching for some award nominations easier. It will but it might also mean that we don't bother looking at everyone's work (or rather at a sample from everyone's work) - we go straight to (and only to) our favourite writers.

Thanks and good luck.

J.

Posted by: Arnfinn Aug 9 05, 06:01

Hi Lori,

Sent me computer away for Hols on 5th August, he got re-configured (computers weight watchers) he came back this afternoon 9th August, n' is a ball of electronic muscle.

So I've been missing for four days (well youknow what I mean).

 :wizard:

Good Idea, some sites have members archives in membership alphabetical order where members a reference to their dablings. Members, as you say, would always have an archival copy of their literary works. Be a help to MM also, if for instance, you wanted a quick reference to someones poems or stories. May be looking for poetry or stories about different subjects etc. Also, if a member is working to improve a poem or story, he/she could work on site and repaste, save a lot of working on files on the members PC and then repasting in MM.



I think it has a lot of merit Lori.  :detective:


Regards,


John  :wizard:  :pharoah2

Posted by: Don Aug 9 05, 08:38

From Don:

I must admit to being weak grasping benefits of a new archive at MM, which must have giggles of memory, which is none of my concern.  

An offsite backup is worthwhile for many.  The offered MM feature is more a convenience than traditional backup.
Traditional backups tend to be bulk and inconvenient except to retrieve lost data.  The new offer seems to be a vanity archive where authors can show their best foot for others to view.   I see a benefit for learning styles and bias for more efficient and effective critique.  I totally agree upon banning comments except by author along with original, if desired.

As an exercise I just used the MM search for all of my postings since the beginning.  A mere three pages, but they were all there.  Therefore, if I wanted to sample any other member a similar search would be adequate.  

I keep a record of all my stuff on home backup.  Don’t forget that a given floppy or CD may fail, and a given drive may fail. A backup on CD and another on DVD— the new FLASH MEMORIES is a good idea.  I have an old ZIP drive that works great.  Disadvantage of ZIP is the media is abortively expensive, but I already have a supply of discs…so…

One member mentioned using Access, which is superior to my Excel because the number of records is becoming cumbersome at 17 landscape pages.  I like the search capability of such home databases to find, say, sonnets or which ones are posted at MM on what date or persons that were copied with how many on what date. Contests, publishers, and chapbook records are easy and compact with these database soft wares.

A self-selected collection at proposed new MM archive probably will not have as extensive a search capability.  I doubt that professional backup services, which charge fees, have such search capability.

I like the idea the staff is not assuming more responsibility.  I feel the self-editing feature already provided should be satisfactory.  

These are my current thoughts, which fail to convince me of the advantage of signing up.  What do you say?

Don

Posted by: Cybele Aug 9 05, 08:42

G'day Arn,

Yer back me old cobber. Yippie!!

computer weight-watchers eh? Wish I could get defragmented like that to the tune of about 20 pounds. (Avoir dupois, that is!!  )


Welcome back again Arnnn.    

Posted by: JLY Aug 9 05, 11:37

Lori,
I have read the comments from my M. M. peers and they all offer much to ponder.
Your original suggestion of making an easily accessible database by author is a good one and provides us with an easy to view file of our works.  I would use it simply the way it was intended; merely as a means to see my collection of MM postings.  I have personally backed up all of my work so I don't look to MM as being my only source of safekeeping.

James raised some interesting issues, many of them with a legal bent to them.  When I think of MM and what it offers for me, I never entertain legalities; I simply think of this "club" as my poetic home away from home.  

The one issue that I tend to agree with James about is the one that relates to nominating authors for awards.  I know personally, I have come to admire an handful of writers here and I eagerly wait in anticipation for their next posting.  I have sometimes been negligent in not viewing as many of the other authors as I should.  By consolidating everyone's work into an easy to find venue, it does lend itself for someone to zero in on their favorite author to select a poem/story for nomination.

However, overall, your concept is a good one and I look forward to this new database to be made available as soon as possible.
JLY

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 12:09

Looks like I need more explaining here:

I am offering a forum where members (if they choose) can copy & paste their works into it to serve
as a repository/collection of works 'at a glance' for other visitors to enjoy.

Ultimately, it is the responsiblilty of each member who posts on MM to have their own back-up copies of their work(s).

This idea is simply to provide a place where they can post certain works so that other readers can read them truly 'at a glance'...

True - the works are already contained on the site, so copying them over to a place is just an ease of application for visitors to their forum.

I am NOT offering a data-storage facility (else I would charge a fee) as a back-up. I make no claim that MM is 'more secure' than our members pc's.Each is responsible for maintaining copies of their own works in whichever manner they choose.

These forums are not meant to REPLACE crit forums or nominations for awards. This is just an account of posts by member ~ to be used for a collection of works on display. Look at it like a digital chapbook.

I don't know how else to say this?

Lori

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 17:09

My apologies as I am using the wrong techno terms which is causing confusion here with this new idea...

I do not mean that MM will serve as a data storage back-up facility (thanks James, Peter and Don) as I mentioned earlier. My bad. :(

All we're offering is a specific category for members to put copies of their work(s) making it easier for them and others to browse. I term this as a "reference repository" in my words.

Even if this new category was a back-up, the Terms of Service specifically (in paragraph 14 section b) absolves MM from any legal action resulting from loss of data. We take reasonable precautions to ensure that data will be available in the event of a complete system crash. However, I recommend that you all have a back-up copy of your works somewhere other than on our (or any other forumboards) system.

If our database is lost, it would not affect only this new category of forums, it would wipe out the whole forum board's database. I can assure all that not only do we have our own back-ups but in the event of a crash, we also have an offsite copy (within a couple of days old) and that provider also does tape back-ups too.

Having just said that, I want to say this is a place for selected works copied by the member (which would be the forum names = member names) as they choose to showcase their talent 'at a glance' instead of having to search through every forum for that member's posts. Also, the search feature by member name will populate not onlt topics started by that member but also all their replies. This is a much more convenient way to read works by a specific member.

Does this clarify my idea?
Cheers!

~Cleo

Posted by: Don Aug 9 05, 17:23

Dear Lori,

I never had any doubt of your intentions.  I think the change of name is a good idea.

Don

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 17:30

Hello James!  :)

QUOTE

MM is not set-up as a back-up service; that is a very specialised area of internet operation. Please make sure that, if you do lose all data, you are covered legally. The ordinary MM terms may cover this - but as you say this is an extension; a new facility - so I would carefully check with your lawyers first. I know you have a RAID system installed - which helps. But supposing there was a fire wherever your computer was and the hard discs were destroyed? Supposing someone had joined who used MM as a back-up and lost some commercially valuable data at the same time. Unlikely? Yes but insurers etc thrive on unlikely events happening sometimes. That is my No1 concern: don't leave yourself open to being sued.

Thanks James for your concerns. MM's Terms of Service specifically (in paragraph 14 section b) absolve us from any legal action resulting from loss of data. We take reasonable precautions to ensure that data will be available in the event of a complete system crash. However, I recommend that you all have a back-up copy of your works somewhere other than on our (or any other forum boards) system.

If our database is lost, it would not only affect this new category of forums, it would wipe out the whole forum board's database. I can assure all that not only do we have our own back-ups but in the event of a crash, we also have an offsite copy (within a couple of days old) and that provider also does nightly tape back-ups too.  

QUOTE

Sure, this seems reasonable if people wish to showcase work. I don't use MM as a showcase but, if others do, I see no problems there.

Yes - a much better word than my 'library of records'. I like that one!  

QUOTE

It was also pointed out to me that it will make searching for some award nominations easier. It will but it might also mean that we don't bother looking at everyone's work (or rather at a sample from everyone's work) - we go straight to (and only to) our favourite writers.

It might do that yes, depending on what works the members decide to put into their showcase forum, however, the crit and non crit forums should remain the primary focus of our members, not the showcase forums. I should think our members will continue to interact in Herme's, Seren's, Stonehenge and Loch Ness (our critting forums as normal) - that's the forum intent.

I am going to make these showcase forums read only at first so no one will be able to make replies. It is really a showcase only - if the member reads works here and wants to comment, they will HAVE to go to the other tile located in the crit or exhibition forums to do so. Once they know the title, they could then utilize the search button/link. I think this should help.

Thanks for your excellent questions and concerns James!  :pharoah2

~Cleo  

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 17:34

Posted by: Don Aug 9 05, 17:52

Yes Lori I was thinking the prime purpose, up front, as a showcase.

I can forsee a member refering to various showcases—especially their own—to an outsider for examples of quality or ramification for a debate.

I had no doubt that MM was legally covered, and did not intend to add a database storage headache to administer.  My initial comments were thinking aloud and hoping someone would light my candle.

As I tell Lynn, my spouse, don't worry about the spelling  because knowing what you mean is what counts.  If readers do not understand by now what you mean it isn't your fault and outside your control.

Don   :pharoah2

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 18:13

Hi Lori,

Sent me computer away for Hols on 5th August, he got re-configured (computers weight watchers) he came back this afternoon 9th August, n' is a ball of electronic muscle.

So I've been missing for four days (well youknow what I mean).

 

Good Idea, some sites have members archives in membership alphabetical order where members a reference to their dablings. Members, as you say, would always have an archival copy of their literary works. Be a help to MM also, if for instance, you wanted a quick reference to someones poems or stories. May be looking for poetry or stories about different subjects etc. Also, if a member is working to improve a poem or story, he/she could work on site and repaste, save a lot of working on files on the members PC and then repasting in MM.



I think it has a lot of merit Lori.  


Regards,


John    :pharoah2

Why hello mate!  :wave:  :troy:

So glad to hear ye pc had a make-over! Didn't ay know us ladie-folk love make-overs! PC weigh watchers ... ! Good one!

Yes - but remember it would be a quick reference of whichever posts the member decides to into it.  :grinning:

Revisions should still be done in the crit/non-crit forums (if those are posted on MM), and always keep at least two back-up copies elsewhere too (either on paper, or on your own pc or at a back up site. While I'm all for saving trees one can never 100% rely on the internet for safe keeping....

Would you like a showcase forum John?

Cheers!
~Cleo  :hsdance:

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 18:21

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 9 05, 18:26

Posted by: Nina Aug 10 05, 01:05

Hi Lori

I think showcase forum is a much better name for this and doesn't bring with it any preconceptions or expectations.

Nina

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 10 05, 05:07

Posted by: Cybele Aug 10 05, 05:33

Hi Lori and Nina,

Me too   Thank you for my showcase Lori

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 10 05, 05:42

You are most welcome Grace!



Enjoy as I will!

Posted by: JLY Aug 10 05, 05:49

Lori,
I would love to see a Showcase Forum....the positives greatly outweigh the few concerns that have been brought forward.
JLY

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 10 05, 06:33

Thanks John!

I've added the new category and 4 showcase forums (one for you) already.

Check it out at the bottom of forum...

Cheers!
Cleo :pharoah2

Posted by: Don Aug 10 05, 07:27

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 11 05, 05:33

Thanks Don.

The new Showcase is up now with 4 members thus far. Why not go and have a read as they create their collections? :)

Cheers!
~Cleo

Posted by: Cathy Aug 11 05, 07:08

Hi Lori,

I think it's a great idea!  Sign me up for a forum please!

Cathy

Posted by: Don Aug 11 05, 07:21

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 11 05, 07:44

Hi Lori,

I think it's a great idea!  Sign me up for a forum please!

Cathy

Posted by: Ephiny Sep 1 05, 08:56

Hi Lori..

Could I sign up for a forum as well please?  Whenever convenient..thank you:)

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Sep 1 05, 09:28

Will do Lucie.

Look for your showcase in the new forum (at the bottom of the board) soon....

Cheers and enjoy!
~Cleo