Faithful Autumn (Final Draft-Thanks Wally, merle & all) Options

[Maggie]

Faithful Autumn (Final Draft . Thanks Wally, Merle & all )

Tomorrrow’s never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing I am sure of
is Autumn came today.

A nippy wind is blowing
the leaves from our oak tree,
and squirrels bury acorns;
that's how the fall should be.

Embracing as a sunset,
predictable as tide;
my faithful friend, Autumn,
has come back to abide.

Peggy Carpenter Harwood


Faithful Autumn (Revision 4- Much thanks Wally, merle & all)

Tomorrow’s never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing I am sure of
is Autumn came today.

A nippy wind is blowing
the leaves from our oak tree,
and squirrels bury acorns;
that's how the fall should be.

All things are set in order;
wild geese are on the wing.
There's comforting assurance
which returning seasons bring.

Embracing as a sunset,
encompassing as a tide;
my faithful friend, Autumn,
has come back to abide.

Peggy Carpenter Harwood



Faithful Autumn (Revision 3 Rough Final Stanza)

Tomorrow is never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing that I know,
Autumn came today.

A squirrel buried an acorn.
That's how it's meant to be,
and a nippy wind is blowing
leaves from the water oak tree.

Regular as the sunset,
faithful as the rising tide,
my old friend Autumn
has come to abide.

All things are in order.
Wild geese on the wing.
Autumn's comforting assurance
makes my very soul sing.



Faithful Autumn (Revision 2 Rough final stanza)

Tomorrow is never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing that I know
is Autumn came today.

Saw a squirrel bury an acorn.
That's how it's supposed to be,
and a nippy wind is blowing
branches on the water oak tree.

As regular as the sunset
and as faithful as rising tide
my old friend Autumn
has come to abide.

Now all things are in order.
Wild geese are on the wing.
Autumn's comforting assurance
makes my very soul sing.





Thank you merle for pointing me back to my own feelings about autumn, and thank you everyone for all the help!!! I just jotted down a very rough start for a poem with ballad rhyme which concentrates on the comfort and reassurance of a returning season.


Faithful Autumn (Revision 1)

Tomorrow is never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing that I know
is Autumn came today.

Saw a squirrel bury an acorn.
That's how it's supposed to be,
and a nippy wind is blowing
limbs of the water oak tree.

As regular as the sunset
and as faithful as rising tide
my old friend Autumn
has come to abide.

unfinished. . .




Autumn Images (Original)

A nippy chill flows on the breeze.
Squirrels bury acorns under trees.
Geese fly south through the sky.
Pumpkins ripen in fields nearby.

Leaves speckle woodlands red and gold.
Mums and pansies are being sold.
One's old jacket comes in handy.
Children's thoughts focus on candy.

First frost nips a summer flower.
Clocks fall back to gain an hour.
Thanksgiving is just beyond the bend.
Welcome, Autumn, my old friend!




Peggy Carpenter Harwood

[Guest_ohsteve_*]

Peggy, I don't like to be negative, this reads very nicely but it isn't very fulfilling. sort of like eating pie crust but no stuff inside. Lots of possibilities but you don't take them anywhere. Gosh I sound so cynical.
I hate the word cliche' but that is sure what comes to mind while reading, these images make a nice picture, but its the same picture everyone sees every year. Make the turkey go swim thru the pumpkin pie, the geese lose their feathers and use the colored leaves for clothing. When I go back and read some of my seasonal poems I see that they are very blah, blah, blah too. I like to try a different way, let your imagination run wild for ten minutes.
See the tree limbs all ending in red styrofoam balls with five blue feathers with silver tips sticking out of each ball. The trunk of the trees bright orange with gold glitter. Geese on roller blades V skating down the road, honking for directions. Sorry to be the one that blows this bubble on you.

Hugs
Steve

[Maggie]

Hi Steve,

While I value your opinion highly and value our online friendship highly as well, I do disagree with you a bit. I think yearly traditions, universal and age old experiences, and classical seasonal changes shouldn't be considered cliched and trite just because they've been written about in the past.

The very reason people enjoy them is because people have come to count on them occurring at certain times of the year and at certain stages thoughout the lives of the past, present, and future generations. Such occurrences inspire and confort me such as "I can always count on the leaves turning" and "I will always appreciate their beauty."

I don't feel I should use trite or cliched "words," but I do feel yearly, classical, universal and seasonally regular happenings should not be considered cliched "topics."

Take Valentine's day for instance. How many times have people thought through the ages that their love would last throughout all eternity? Quite a few and to them they mean it and the message is important. Of course poets try to say they same thing in as original a way as possible especially by using new metaphors and similes, but still sometimes there no way around avoiding saying "I'll love you forever." It's classical, universal, traditional, reassuring, and also repetetive.

[Guest_ohsteve_*]

Peggy, I did not mean to offend. If I did then I apologise sincerely.

Steve

[Maggie]

Hi Steve,

No offense taken at all!!! We've never had a big difference of opinions before, but friendship withstands such things!!! My apologies if I was harsh!!! Sorry!!!

Guess what! I just now got an illustrator for this poem!!! She's a family member and we're talking about doing a children's book using my lines and her pictures. I hadn't ever thought of that, but the poem is very concrete and lends its self well to illustrations for children.

Again, I'm sorry if I was too abrupt!!!!

Peggy

[Cleo_Serapis]

Lovely, Peggy!

I truly love Autumn - it's my favorite season, especially here in New England.

I don't spot anything I can suggest as this one as is.

Enjoyed the read!
~Cleo

[Mary Boren]

Hello Peggy,

I don't think we've met. I like your name -- it has a poetic ring to it. I, too, am energized and renewed each year by the coming of autumn, and your poem touches on familiar scenes.

That said, I guess my question for you is, what is your goal in writing and workshopping? If you want children's or greeting card verse that will be enthusiastically praised by family and friends, you have it. But if you want to call forth an "aha" moment for someone who doesn't already know and love you -- to write with the power to move, enlighten, uplift, tickle, soothe, or challenge, to leave that unknown reader reading, reading and re-reading to savor every scintilla of serendipity in a phrase or line -- well, then, there is some work to be done.

I'm going to list some of the reasons this poem would not be well-received in circles that subsist on the essence of poetry.

1. You have circumvented the first rule of creative writing, which is "show, don't tell." I think this is what Steve was saying in a gentler way.

2. Every line is endstopped, which creates a singsong effect. Admittedly, enjambment is an acquired taste for those who (like me) cut their teeth on "people's" poetry. There is a myth going around that it is a new technique but, as shown in the link I offered, that's definitely not the case. Once this tool is absorbed into the poetic arsenal (in suitable proportions), one can only marvel at its capacity to create sparks of interest.

3. You have not employed standard poetic devices such as metaphor, simile, assonance, imagery, onomatopoeia, etc. -- the springboard for launching common language into the realm of soul connection.

4. Your rhythm's a little wonky in spots. (S1/L2 & 3, S2/L1 & 4, S3/L3)

I hope I'm not telling you things you already know, and that I haven't been too direct. A board like this thrives on honest feedback, and I intend to invest myself in giving more than I take from the interaction among poets here. It would be too easy to pass on by without comment. Again, your poem is fine for the purpose you have stated, but why post at a workshop if you're not seeking to refine your skills?

Mary

[Maggie]

Hi Mary,

I've never met you before, so may I say "Hello and welcome"!

As for touching your soul, I guess I failed with you and Steve. It does touch my soul,
but I appreciate your honesty. I guess in art and writing soul touching is rather a personal matter.

As for my goals, I'm writing to self publish a book of poems and did a major rewrite of this one so I posted the rewrite. I wanted impressions on the meter and rhyme. I know I should have been specific about what I wanted. As for the end stops, I seldom use them, but I thought the meter and rhyme were strong enough to support them. From your question, I gather you're a fan of "embedding." I am not experienced enough for that and usually use "grammatical justification" instead.

No, I don't need to be taught poetic devices as I have read, taught and studied poetry all my life.

It was nice to meet you and again welcome!

Peggy

[Sekhmet]

Hello Peggy - I am afraid that I agree with Steve and Mary.
I wanted to be shown your own personal experience of autumn in your part of the world, - you gave us a dull list of things that happen every year.
Surely in serious, (or even humorous) poetry, the aim is to cast a fresh, piercing light, or to show us a new perspective -especially on a hackneyed subject.
When you choose to write upon a topic that has been covered by hundreds of different poets of vastly differing abilities, you have to tell us something surprising about the subject if you wish to hold our interest.
Even children's books, unless they are for the very young, need to say something amazing to spark their interest.
Sorry - But good luck with the book.
Leo

[Mary Boren]

No, I don't need to be taught poetic devices as I have read, taught and studied poetry all my life.

Fair enough, then. I apologize and won't make that mistake again. Good luck with your book.

Mary

[Maggie]

Hi,

Thank you so much for the time and attention! I much appreciate your frankness and good intentions! And I mean that sincerely!!

I'm afraid I've a very different idea of hackneyed, trite, and cliched. I explained my own view point already in this thread at length and I won't insult you with repetition, but I will mention another idea I believe about the same subject. I gave a writing student a low grade one time because she wrote a piece of descriptive writing which I thought was very trite and "old hat." In the prose she described a young couple on the beach at night with a full moon and a warm breeze blowing through the guy's blonde, wavy hair.
Later, on my own, I raised the grade. This is why. It takes quite a bit of life experience and maturity to recognize or accuse someone of being "hackneyed." The reason something becomes "hackneyed" is because it was so "spot on" to begin with. If you're young you experience something for the first time or freshly so you have no idea that it's hackneyed, trite, or cliched.

Also, I'm not one of those people who have to have things new and unusual happenings at Christmas either. I enjoy the time-honored traditions and reassuring repetitions. I feel the same way about autumn.

Peggy

[Psyche]

Hi Peggy!

I think this is a pretty piece and it sure does give one a comforting feeling that all is as it should be.

If your aim was to write an attractive, rhyming poem without all the trimmings -poetic devices- expected by expert composers, then that's OK with me. There is a large audience for straightforward poems like yours and I wish you the best of luck with your forthcoming book.

Many hugs, happy Thanksgiving!
Syl***

[Maggie]

Hi Syl,

It certainly is comforting and reassuring that you understand and approve of my somewhat modest goals for this poem! Thank you for your acceptance of my offering and your assurances. While my product is quite humble, now I am happy and satisfied. I wasn't "going for the gold" so to speak. Instead I was "caring carefully for the stainless steel," if you get my meaning.

I believe there are periods in my life and the lives of many when it's wiser to accept the limitations we have and work within them. I'd love someday before I die to be able to write an embedded sonnet such as Larry's recent masterpiece, but I choose to do to accept and in tiny increments improve what products I am able to produce.

As for the poetic devises, I do use them in free verse and appreciate and enjoy coming up with a fresh metaphor or simile in that venue. Here in this poem I was trying to come up with better rhythm and rhyme that my usual.

Have a lovely Thanksgiving!

Peggy

[Thoth]

Hello Peggy,

Nice to see you writing again. I hesitated commenting before but to someone who has helped me so many times in the past, it would be remiss to not return the courtesy.

Oh, we poets always feel the romantics in everything, especially the seasons, change of seasons and even the weather. Autumn is always a topical favourite and brings for sheer enjoyment to many.

This sketch leaves a warm fuzzy feeling in spite of the foreboding signs of winter around the corner. I am not looking for anything profoundly huge or radically different in a rhyme such as this, but all the same do I believe the reader must come away fulfilled. I know you are not comfortable in this form but (as you have done for me) I will simply not allow a poet of your proven abilities to get away with it.

It is the poet’s duty to make full use of the allotted space. In this respect, I see some opportunities that have been missed. Please permit me to illustrate with S1;

I would advise looking for any redundancy and replace with extra adjectives to enhance the image, then re-read looking for obvious statements that could be removed. Bear in mind, the majority of your readers will have rich memories of autumn. All you need to do is stimulate those imaginations.

Autumn's Annual Arrival (Title; everyone l knows autumn arrives annually so it states the obvious)
A nippy chill flows on the breeze. (Nippy & chill mean very nearly the same so at least one is redundant)
Squirrels bury acorns under trees. (ok, but lets see if it can compliment a revision better)
Geese fly south through the sky. (Snow geese fly but through the sky and swim but on the lake)
Pumpkins ripen in fields nearby. (again, it is too obvious a statement unless they ripen on the shelf - useful image though)

Each line is a sentence and statement or thought. Would you do this in a prose piece? I think not - too choppy. Rhyme is no different.

Lets see how these issues can be addressed with a little editing. I dropped the line of "chilly breezes" and concentrated on the more dramatic image of the geese departing. It could have gone any direction but after a few minutes I ended up with;

When Autumn Arrives (The title foreshadows the subject)
Wild geese depart (our summer guests)
and hoarding squirrels grist their nests;
o'er fields of blushing pumpkins fly
their pulsing vee through stippled sky.

Do you see? The five stand-alone statements you had before have blended into one compound flowing image.

Not ideal yet I agree but it is the process of “try/fit/change something” that you need to apply. Thank God for computers! Sometimes you get into a dead end and have to go back so always keep the older drafts. I sometimes end up with a dozen or more versions before consolidating so don’t be scared to play to your hearts content.

I hope this helps in some small way. If I am out of line, please forgive me.

Hugzzz,

Wally

[Maggie]

Thanks so much Wally! No indeed to wonder, you are not out of line. I love your concise, fresh and lovely poem. As you probably already know, I can't use it in toto because then it wouldn't be mine.

I do plan on revising mine for probably a long time. One line I do like of mine is the "Leaves speckle woodlands red and gold." I shouldn't have just changed the original line there instead of just deleting and re typing it. I know we're not supposed to do that.

I made other changes as well including the title which I notice you didn't pick up on. You used an earlier title which again I changed without notice. Sorry again I broke the rules.I've actually typed the following titles in the following order on the post:
"Autumn Atmosphere," "Autumn's Arrival," "Autumn's Annual Arrival," and now "Autumn Images."

If I make more changes I will definitely label them as "Revisions."

Thank you so much for your time and attention and fine example!!

Peggy

[Sekhmet]

Good morning Peggy - I am not too certain why you have chosen to submit this particular poem for criticism to MM.
If you are planning to self-publish a book of children's poetry - let the children be your judge.
You have, as you say, read, written and taught creative writing all your life. Be confident in your abilities! - Go right ahead and publish.
You have made it clear that you don't need, and have indeed rejected, such suggestions as we have offered.
I have the impression that your book, and I presume this poem, is intended to be read by children?
Possibly, if we had understood that intention at first, we would have judged this poem as Children's Verse. I believe there is a symbol that can be used to indicate that a poem is intended for children's entertainment, but you should ask Cleo about that.
I, for one, assumed that the verse was offered for adult enjoyment - and felt that I wanted the stunning experience of Autumn to be described by verses with more glory,substance and originality.
I feel that children,too, deserve more to fire their imagination than this poem offers - but then, I'm not a children's writer; so what do I know?
Leo

[Thoth]

Dear Peggy,

I love writing children's poems and stories, especially having now two granddaughters to entertain.

(Do we have a forum for "Childrens Poetry"? CLEO!!!! please? why not?



The older one is five and interestingly her favourite out of all the of modern reading material targeted to her age group is;

wait for it . . .





Just so Stories by Rudyard Kipling!




Why? I wondered, they seem far too advanced for her vocab with some very intricate wording.

After pondering this for some time, I realized that Kipling never talks down to his readers, he forces them to ask questions, fires the imagination and involves them in the story.

Walt Disney used this to great effect.

I eventually understood that we are often guilty of underestimating a child's intelligence!

My five year old granddaughter shuns the usual child's movies but has watched Mamma Mia twenty five times and can recite all the Abba songs! Yet she still can't read and struggles to write her own name,

"Mr Magorium's Magic Emporium" is her best. (10 to 13 year old material with a complex plot)

Just thought I'd share those thoughts with you,

Hugzz,

Wally

[Maggie]

Hi Wally,

This is my first attempt to publish a children's poem except my Christmas ditty which I posted on MM last year titled "A Christmas Mouse". My six-year-old granddaughter loved that one. She read the whole thing the first time through and only had one question: "What does 'vim' mean?" She composes poems this year when she comes to visit me. Then she watches me type her offerings and I print them out. Then they are displayed on her refrigerator door at home.

Come to think of it, I've read Nursery Rhymes and such to both my children and to all five of my grandchildren when they were tender ages. I guess what they(the children) like best about those are the sound effect of definite end rhymes, internal rhymes and the clear and definite rhythm. What do you think? And what child doesn't soon learn what "tuffet" and "curds and whey" mean early on when reading "Little Miss Muffet"?

Wally, I am aware my poem needs a great deal of work and I do intend to get rid of so many end stops and do better with the images. Thanks for the suggestions again!

Peggy

[merle]

Hi Peggy -

I'm not going to re-hash what's already been said (and yes, you're welcome). Instead I'd like to go in a different direction. I found your responses interesting, i.e., the comfort of traditions. I would enjoy reading your autumn poem with those same emotions either threaded through or underneath. Of course, that is if you decided to target an adult audience.

[Maggie]

HI merle,

Good idea! I took a look at your post and may use something similar to the rough new opening I have just thought of below. What do you think of the thought behind the words below?

Faithful Autumn

Tomorrow is never certain.
It's always been that way,
but one thing that I know
is Autumn came today.

Saw a squirrel bury an acorn.
That's how it's supposed to be,
and a nippy wind is blowing
limbs of the water oak tree.

As regular as the sunrise
and as faithful as rising tide
my old friend Autumn
has come to abide.

Thanks again Merle for pointing me back toward my theme!!!

Peggy