Shadows Know, Revised Options

[Guest_Don_*]

-------- revision 01, 28 January 2007 --------

Shadows Know
(version 01)

Though under foot, our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data stores reside.
On placid pond, the ripples roll on cue
and ponder what our silent shadow shows.

What does it know about the sunshine laws
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Why does it hold its ground despite the flaws
of how perverse we play our poker hands?

Illusions often counter what they seem:
as starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,
or gleam for gold is panned from dreamer’s stream,
and coup of tortoise shell in bunny’s race.

The wiggle-squiggle’s fun for us to watch,
when shadows fit the forms of conclusions.
Our shadow shapes maintain a constant swatch
while we re-form to embrace delusions.

© 2007, D.E. Holmes
28 January

Meter: Iambic pentameter

----------original------------
Shadows Know

Under foot our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data store resides.
As waves on placid pond ripple on cue
let’s ponder what our silent shadow shows.

Does it know about the sunshine law
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Does it hold its ground in spite of flaw
of how averse we play a poker hand?

How often things differ from what they seem,
like starlight sparkle caused by earthen air,
and gleam in gold is panned from stream of dream,
or bunny losing race to tortoise shell.

Its wiggle squiggle fun for us to watch,
but shadow surge to shrink a sound delusion
for shadow shape remains a constant swatch
of us who mutate form to match conclusion.

© 2006, D.E. Holmes
25 April

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Don

Interesting question. What does our shadow reveal? Does it show the "truth" even though we try to distort it?

I like your analogies with panning for gold and the hare and tortoise story.

Its wiggle squiggle fun for us to watch, ...should Its be It's?

but shadow surge to shrink a sound delusion
....Probably me being dense but I don't follow this line. Should it be "shadow surges to shrink a sound delusion" or "shadow surge shrinks a sound delusion"

for shadow shape remains a constant swatch
of us who mutate form to match conclusion.
....again I'm puzzled by "a constant swatch of us"

Thanks for the read

Nina

[Guest_Don_*]

>N>Interesting question. What does our shadow reveal? Does it show the "truth" even though we try to distort it?

Lamont Cranston was the shadow of radio days. The shadow always knew, which made him an ideal sleuth. A way of ferreting past our masks of pretense.

>N>I like your analogies with panning for gold and the hare and tortoise story.

Thank you.

>N>Its wiggle squiggle fun for us to watch, ...should Its be It's?

"Its" refers to shadow possesion of characteristics. "It is" would be inappropriate.

>N>but shadow surge to shrink a sound delusion
....Probably me being dense but I don't follow this line. Should it be "shadow surges to shrink a sound delusion" or "shadow surge shrinks a sound delusion"

I tried to say that the shifting shadow shape is our delusion, and later saying the apparent changing shadow is really constant. I sincerely like your suggestion: "shadow surge shrinks a sound delusion." I would like to use it if it can be modified into iambic. I need a low stress something between surge and shrinks. Perhaps: but shadow surges shrink a sound delusion

>N>for shadow shape remains a constant swatch
of us who mutate form to match conclusion.
....again I'm puzzled by "a constant swatch of us"

I readily see confusion now. Three concepts are tersely piled. First the shadow, which we percieve as changing shape is really a fixed form. Secondly it is our shadow (of us). Third, it us who mutate shape and implication is we fail to recognize or admit to changing.
More development or at least rewording to dispell confusion is in order, which will take more than an off-the-cuff fix. Thanks.

>N>Thanks for the read

Thank you for dropping by with serious comments.

Don

[JustDaniel]

I also was confused when I read this earlier, Don... so I was waiting for your response to Nina's questions. Thanks for beginning to clarify this. You have an excellent concept in this one, and I know that you'll work out the metrical squiggles. You've departed from the traditional IP in quite a number of places, which is fine of course, so I'd need to know just how much you intend to vary to help you wiggle around better... so I'll just shadow you for a few more reads, if that's okay with you. For now, a few observations:

intriguing rhyme scheme: axax bxbx cxcx dede

Shadows Know

[opening variation from iambic] Under foot our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data stores resides.
As waves on placid pond ripple [variation] on cue
let’s ponder what our silent shadow shows.

[effective variation]Does it know about the sunshine law
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
[effective variation]Does it hold its ground in spite of despite the flaw
[ suggestion because the expression felt/feels awkard ? ]
of how averse we play a poker hand?

How often things differ [variation] from what they seem,
like starlight sparkle caused by earthen air,
and gleam in gold is panned from stream of dream,
[ language again seems unnatural ? ]
or bunny losing race to tortoise shell.
[ likewise feels stilted ]

Its wiggle squiggle fun for us to watch,
[ I love it! ]
but shadow surge to shrink a sound delusion
[ as stated, this is very unclear ]
for shadow shape remains a constant swatch
of us who mutate form to match conclusion.

I just think your form here needs to mutate a wee more... so that we can see the progression of how you come to the conclusion -- one with which I think we'll all agree.

deLighting in the interaction, Daniel

[Guest_Don_*]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for stepping forward. I must have this poem confused with others in my snippet file. Iambic is not master here. Hence any line is fair game to vary, have at it.

I may have a stilted brain, since I did not see oddity in two lines you noted. I am still attempting to conform to Dericlee's concept of adapting what I call converstational mode. On the otherhand I step back from a string of connectors like struck by a bolt. Two adjacent low stresses is enough for anapest. I shun one stress in four or one stress in five.

Hmmm, I doubt most are going to agree with view that we change shape while our shadow doesn't. This is more an imaginative fantasy to prompt introspection.

I like your suggestions as well an Nina's todate. I intend holding for potential additions from MM personnel.

Thanks

Don

[JLY]

Don,
The comments and interaction of Nina and Daniel assisted me in better interpreting this poem.
I much enjoyed you use of alliteration.

I offer a subtle change:

and gleam in gold is panned from stream of dream,

or
and gleam in gold is panned from dream's stream,....this still maintains your rhyme scheme...

JLY

[Guest_Don_*]

Don,
The comments and interaction of Nina and Daniel assisted me in better interpreting this poem.
I much enjoyed you use of alliteration.

I offer a subtle change:

and gleam in gold is panned from stream of dream,

or
and gleam in gold is panned from dream's stream,....this still maintains your rhyme scheme...

JLY

Thanks John for returning to this dusty poem.

Among other poems posted here, I am letting them perk to tackle with a fresh mind and juggle MM inputs.

I am glad you like alliteration, as I certainly do.

I also need to refresh and update proper possessive punctuation. This zone is about as confusing in English as commas. When in academia as a student inanimate objects couldn't possess and we were instructed to avoid it with statements like "world of joy" in place of "world's joy" or "worlds' joy."

Thanks for reading again.

Don

[Guest_bombadil1247_*]

Hi, Don,

nice to read you again though this seems slightly different from your posts at Richard's site, much deeper.

Under foot our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data store resides.
As waves on placid pond ripple on cue
let’s ponder what our silent shadow shows.

I have read through the comments and note your response that this is not intended as iambic but the scansion does show the iamb as the dominant metre used. I always argue that metre should not be a straight jacket but sometimes the 'rules' are there for a reason. The first line always sets the readers expectation for the poem and that is why the first line of an iambic piece should never be headless, since that sets trochee as the metre preferred.

Does it know about the sunshine law
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Does it hold its ground in spite of flaw
of how averse we play a poker hand?

The last two lines here cause a hiccup for the reader, think it's the 'of how averse' phrase. Might be an idea to move everything into the plural - laws,concerns (that would need the 'our' qualifier), and flaws anyway - and substitute 'in how perverse' for this phrase. Strictly speakly, both 'averse' and perverse' should each carry the '-ly' ending but I think poetic licence is in order here.

How often things differ from what they seem,
like starlight sparkle caused by earthen air,
and gleam in gold is panned from stream of dream,
or bunny losing race to tortoise shell.

Think the plural might work better here too, Don; 'sparkles' in line 2, and 'gleams of gold are.. streams of dream.' in line 3. Not sure about line 4, 'bunny losing race' doesn't trip off the tongue very easily. Would you consider something like 'or how hare lost his race..' here?

Its wiggle squiggle fun for us to watch,
but shadow surge to shrink a sound delusion
for shadow shape remains a constant swatch
of us who mutate form to match conclusion.

read your comment on 'Its' but unless you change 'wiggle' to 'wiggly' I'm afraid you can't claim possessive here - if you take 'wiggle squiggle' out of the line it still makes sense as a contraction of 'it is', readers are seeing 'wiggle squiggle' as adjectives for 'fun' as it stands, I think. An alternative might be to add a comma after 'squiggle' to separate it from the sentence syntax. The alliteration of this last stanza is breathtaking but sense is sacrificed. Think you either need 'shadows' or 'surges' in line 2 and while I can see the reference to sanity in 'sound' - as in mind -I might be inclined to use something less obscure, perhaps just 'sense'? Similarly in line 3, 'shadow shape' just doesn't sound 'right', I would use the possessive here, shadow's, to strengthen the sibilance and avoid the awkward phrase. I think you chose 'mutate' in line 4 for the 'm' alliteration but it doesn't work for me; lost communication is too high a price to pay for sound effects. Mutate suggests a radical alteration which cannot be reversed, though the changes you hint at are seemingly selective by circumstance; that's a long way round to suggest using 'change our' instead of 'mutate' here.

I do like the premise behind this, Don, and some of the word choices are inspired - 'veil a dark concern' is a particular favourite subject to my reservations on maintaining singulars in that stanza. This crit only shows my opinions of course, feel free to use or lose suggestions as you choose, poet, you own the poem,
Jim

[Guest_Don_*]

Thanks Jim for your deep analysis. Please note I am not ready to rehash this poem quite yet due to other fires. Your crit is very well accepted and very illuminating. Later I shall answer in kind with a revision in hand.

You may have me mistaken for another, as I do not remember posting on Richard's site.

I see you have a number of pieces here at MM, which I must take time to view, if you don't mind.

Don

[Guest_Don_*]

Thanks to everyone above who has helped with positive observations.
A revision 01 has been posted in original thread tile.

Don

[AMETHYST]

Hi Don, I am glad you brought this one up with revision. I hadn't a chance to read it before and enjoyed the subject and how you've brought shadows to life, giving shadows some personalification. Allowing the idea of shadows to reflect our inner selves (this was my interpretation) that the wonderment of shadows revealing hidden secrets of ourselves and we might change them, as we might mask our true intentions and our true qualities, but our shadow eventually reveals the truth... 'what lurks in shadows... :)

Some thoughts to follow, there not much left if anything important to nit about but I will see what I can do...

Hugs, Liz

Though under foot, our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data stores reside.
On placid pond, the ripples roll on cue
and ponder what our silent shadow shows.

I liked the concept of showing how our shadows begin from foot and works outward toward the head, I never really acknowledge that, but as I read that line I imagined a shadow and it does. I felt the word 'data' was sort of robotic. I interpretted to mean the hidden information that we keep from sight... I'll be back to that, please let me know what your meaning is with using 'data stores..' The remaining image is wonderful. I like the alliteration and the rhythm, as well as the image of our shadows quietly shifting over a pond and the pond debating our shadows existence.

What does it know about the sunshine laws
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Why does it hold its ground despite the flaws
of how perverse we play our poker hands?

L2, perhaps ... of stoic shade? ... The use of 'poker hands' emphasis the idea of hidding/masking ourselves, our intentions, our motivations and true character... Nice simili

Illusions often counter what they seem:
as starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,
or gleam for gold is panned from dreamer’s stream,
and coup of tortoise shell in bunny’s race.

L3, perhaps when panned from dreamer's stream,

The wiggle-squiggle’s fun for us to watch,
when shadows fit the forms of conclusions.
Our shadow shapes maintain a constant swatch
while we re-form to embrace delusions.

I keep wanting to say 'The wiggly-squiggly's fun for us to watch.

I know I didn't leave much, but I hope something I left helps. This is pretty much shined and trimmed, and ready for completion.

Hugs, Liz

[Guest_Don_*]

Dear AMETHYST,

I am enthralled that you took valuable time to reread and comment. I shall detail my thoughts regarding construction of this poem. Hopefully, it will not be like explaining a joke, which kills the humor.

The shadow going from foot to head is a reverse of cliché “head to foot.”

The path toward the head where the secret data is stored leads us into question of what is known? Our head and the shadow’s head are both storage compartments, which is what the second line intends. As you observed, both containers hold information that is inherently out of sight. Ripples on a pond are also an echo or shadow of a disturbance as well as reflecting our shadow in wiggles, which shows malleability of our dark companion. Note the wiggle squiggle links back to the pond image.

As you observed, the visible activity in the pond indicates that this inanimate body also contemplates the shadow lying upon its surface. We are beginning to see related contortions and effects. The poem is heightening animism and implying that things are as thoughtful as we humans, but silent. Our shadow knows but doesn’t tell.

The sunshine law and stoic shade says that despite knowing about open communication, our shadow—the shade—is stoically silent. The better part of wisdom. I like your suggestion of “of” in place of “in.” I see both prepositions as equal. Why do you think “of” is better?

Glad you saw the purpose of poker. If shadow is a rendition of physical shape, why wouldn’t what we mentally conceal also be what our shadow hides?

I can agree with “The wiggly-squiggle’s fun for us to watch,” but this implies squiggle should be plural and making it plural plus using contraction for “is” pushes grammar envelope. I am using “wiggle-squiggle” as a subject noun. To make both modifiers (with ly) eliminates subject.

Of course, the mystery of shadows implies that they know more than we do. When we personify shadow, we naturally become jealous that it might know more, and we are further respectfully unsettled because it is mute.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though under foot, our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data stores reside.
On placid pond, the ripples roll on cue
and ponder what our silent shadow shows.

I liked the concept of showing how our shadows begin from foot and works outward toward the head, I never really acknowledge that, but as I read that line I imagined a shadow and it does. I felt the word 'data' was sort of robotic. I interpretted to mean the hidden information that we keep from sight... I'll be back to that, please let me know what your meaning is with using 'data stores..' The remaining image is wonderful. I like the alliteration and the rhythm, as well as the image of our shadows quietly shifting over a pond and the pond debating our shadows existence.

What does it know about the sunshine laws
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Why does it hold its ground despite the flaws
of how perverse we play our poker hands?

L2, perhaps ... of stoic shade? ... The use of 'poker hands' emphasis the idea of hidding/masking ourselves, our intentions, our motivations and true character... Nice simili

Illusions often counter what they seem:
as starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,
[like starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,]—Don’s new line
or gleam for gold is panned from dreamer’s stream,
[or gleam of gold when panned from dreamer’s stream,]—Don’s new line
and coup of tortoise shell in bunny’s race.

L3, perhaps when panned from dreamer's stream,

The wiggle-squiggle’s fun for us to watch,
when shadows fit the forms of conclusions.
Our shadow shapes maintain a constant swatch
[Our shadow's shape maintains a constant swatch]--Don's new line
while we re-form to embrace delusions.

I keep wanting to say 'The wiggly-squiggly's fun for us to watch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AMETHYST]

Dear AMETHYST,

I am enthralled that you took valuable time to reread and comment. I shall detail my thoughts regarding construction of this poem. Hopefully, it will not be like explaining a joke, which kills the humor.


Hello Don, Actually I don't consider my time 'valuable', but I did think the poem held high value, in both it's meanings and execution. I was glad to hear your intentions, clarifying some of my own impressions bringing light to the subject. Although I do think, for the most part (even the area's I might have misread) stands on it's own.


The shadow going from foot to head is a reverse of cliché "head to foot."

I caught the flip of the old saying, however - the truth is when you look at a shadow on someone, it does appear to begin at the foot or connecting point (feet to ground) ... So i thought there was a bit more intensity found in the phrase. :)

The path toward the head where the secret data is stored leads us into question of what is known? Our head and the shadow's head are both storage compartments, which is what the second line intends. As you observed, both containers hold information that is inherently out of sight. Ripples on a pond are also an echo or shadow of a disturbance as well as reflecting our shadow in wiggles, which shows malleability of our dark companion. Note the wiggle squiggle links back to the pond image.

Yes, my comments were the same as your meaning with the ripples on the pond... how a shadow, unseen force creates them. Perhaps for "wiggle Squiggle' ... maybe A Wiggle Squiggles ... "

As you observed, the visible activity in the pond indicates that this inanimate body also contemplates the shadow lying upon its surface. We are beginning to see related contortions and effects. The poem is heightening animism and implying that things are as thoughtful as we humans, but silent. Our shadow knows but doesn't tell.

And you''ve presented this with intensity and strong descriptions.

The sunshine law and stoic shade says that despite knowing about open communication, our shadow—the shade—is stoically silent. The better part of wisdom. I like your suggestion of "of" in place of "in." I see both prepositions as equal. Why do you think "of" is better?

I am not sure if it is 'better' or not, but 'of' just felt more natural when I spoke. I sort of see it, hmmm, I wish my mind could remember certain words... let's see if I could 'show' what I mean...
If I wrote the line .... : I paint a room in blue (makes me read this as the narrator is using the color blue to paint a room) now if I use 'of blue' it is the room that is blue, well--it felt natural to read the veiled dark concern is the stoic shade, rather than a separate entity like the color blue. Did that make any sense? I doubt it, but just chalk it up to my ear picks it up as 'of' flows off smoother in my mind and to my ear. Hugs.

Glad you saw the purpose of poker. If shadow is a rendition of physical shape, why wouldn't what we mentally conceal also be what our shadow hides?

That is exactly how I interpretted it.

I can agree with "The wiggly-squiggle's fun for us to watch," but this implies squiggle should be plural and making it plural plus using contraction for "is" pushes grammar envelope. I am using "wiggle-squiggle" as a subject noun. To make both modifiers (with ly) eliminates subject.

See above suggestion... 'Perhaps ... "A wiggle-squiggle's fun ... ' or "as is" is fine too! LOL

Of course, the mystery of shadows implies that they know more than we do. When we personify shadow, we naturally become jealous that it might know more, and we are further respectfully unsettled because it is mute.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though under foot, our shadow lies from shoe
to head where secret data stores reside.
On placid pond, the ripples roll on cue
and ponder what our silent shadow shows.

I liked the concept of showing how our shadows begin from foot and works outward toward the head, I never really acknowledge that, but as I read that line I imagined a shadow and it does. I felt the word 'data' was sort of robotic. I interpretted to mean the hidden information that we keep from sight... I'll be back to that, please let me know what your meaning is with using 'data stores..' The remaining image is wonderful. I like the alliteration and the rhythm, as well as the image of our shadows quietly shifting over a pond and the pond debating our shadows existence.

What does it know about the sunshine laws
to veil a dark concern in stoic shade?
Why does it hold its ground despite the flaws
of how perverse we play our poker hands?

L2, perhaps ... of stoic shade? ... The use of 'poker hands' emphasis the idea of hidding/masking ourselves, our intentions, our motivations and true character... Nice simili

Illusions often counter what they seem:
as starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,
[like starlight twinkle caused by earthen air,]—Don's new line
or gleam for gold is panned from dreamer's stream,
[or gleam of gold when panned from dreamer's stream,]—Don's new line
and coup of tortoise shell in bunny's race.


Both the above revised lines are nice improvements. :) Which this really doesn't need all that much tweaking... so your almost at finish line!

L3, perhaps when panned from dreamer's stream,

The wiggle-squiggle's fun for us to watch,
when shadows fit the forms of conclusions.
Our shadow shapes maintain a constant swatch
[Our shadow's shape maintains a constant swatch]--Don's new line
while we re-form to embrace delusions.

Yes. Shadow's shape flow off the tongue soft and smooth.

I keep wanting to say 'The wiggly-squiggly's fun for us to watch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I have to say I quite enjoyed this for many reasons, including rhymes inner rhyes and rhythm, but mostly for the contemplation of a thought that I remember so often debating in my own mind and then to follow the strong theories of the poem brought back lots of memories and inspirations, as well as stirred a thousand connections to your images within the poem. A great work.

[Guest_Don_*]

Dear AMETHYST,

Thank you again for your insightful input. Discussing ideas and representations is what makes us grow. I shall revise again based on our recent discussion as soon as time allows.

One additional point is I count too many repeats of "shadow."

Thanks for thinking this a wonderful work.

Gave you inspiration, you say? I would like to see your version, which obviously has been in the wings waiting for limelight.

Don

[AMETHYST]

I'll see what I can come up with on the inspiration response! Thanks for giving me a task! Hugs, Liz