MM Questionnaire, sent via email to all members today Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

I just don't see it as being in a clique (Course I'm biased, ) - I also can only comment on a few new posts as time permits me to and I tend to look for new members first, then those tiles with the least amount of crits next already given and then after those have been replied to, then I will go to the tiles that already have a bit of replies...

Seems we have two suggestions:

Refine the wizard rules to:

A. Be awarded based on a set number of 'new topics' started in a month in the crit forums

OR

B. Be awarded based on a set number of member responses (different visitors) within each tile in the crit forums.

BOTH have merit for very different purposes. The first describes how often our members post new topics beyond the required 1:3:2 rule within a forum. The second describes how many of our members visit and comment in different threads to offer their feedback. Choice A is the result of the member posting their own tiles and choice B is the result of members commenting on others tiles.

I hope that covers the suggestions, if not please ADD to this one...

~Cleo :pharoah2

We'll need to get some feedback on these ideas from our members...

Cheers!
~Cleo :)

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Lori

Choice A encourages greater participation and it is down to the writer to make the effort to achieve an award.

Choice B is passive for the writer.  They post their work and hope members will come and crit.

I tend to agree with Fran's comment about the perceptions of cliquiness and possible misplaced resentment if they see someone posting in a lot of other members poems and perhaps not theirs.  

I try and crit as many poems as I can but inevitably one or two "slip through the net" un-noticed.

Nina

[Cleo_Serapis]

Yes- I like the idea that the member needs to make the effort moreso than the passive approach... which they have more control over. And the 1:3:2 rule is effective in that for every new topic they will post, they must also crit 2 other members posts before they can post again....  

We could also make the revised wizard qualifications work both ways too.  

Post at least 10 (8 poetry and 2 prose) or 5 (4 prose and 1 poetry)new topics in any of the 4 crit forums (applying the 75/25 rules of 8 poems and 2 prose or 4 prose and 1 poem (or substitution of the 25 % from Flash participation) per month to receive the award.

I would still track the stats the same way for the Laureate Legion forum too...

???

[Cybele]

[b]

Hi Everyone,

Post at least 10 (8 poetry and 2 prose) or 5 (4 prose and 1 poetry)new topics in any of the 4 crit forums (applying the 75/25 rules of 8 poems and 2 prose or 4 prose and 1 poem (or substitution of the 25 % from Flash participation) per month to receive the award.

I'm afraid  I cannot agree with this idea. Everyone works at a different rate and quantity is not necessary quality. I don't think I have ever achieved 10 pieces in one month and very seldom 5 pieces in a month.

For newbies with a stock of poems to offer it would be workable IF they could also stick to the 1-3-2 rule, but I doubt they could. I am sure also that we have established members with a large stock of finished pieces ready to post which would give them an unfair advantage over those who are producing fresh work all the time.
Also this strikes me as a very harsh rule and rather like being back at school. You MUST do this or you will NEVER achieve that.

Surely we wish to encourage new writers as well as our present membership. This smacks of the carrot and stick method to me.

Then there are the practicalities of illness, holidays. and computer breakdowns to consider, and while you might argue that this would only affect people a small percentage of the time, it would still prevent a level playing field. They may already have posted some excellent work, be on target for meeting the required amount of work and through no fault of their own, not have the chance to be rewarded for their efforts because of unforeseen circumstances.

Speaking for myself, I am here for the love of writing,~ in my own time, at my own pace and while I have no desparate need to win awards it is good to be offered the chance on an equal footing with every other writer here.

We already have the Flash Jamming, which is a great stimulus and discipline for those who wish to join in. But it is ONE piece a fortnight so anyone should be able to manage that as an incentive to write.

I feel a little apprehensive about the subtle changes to MM lately. If we lose our spontaneity we will lose an integral part of what make MM work, and that would be a great shame.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi

I agree with you Grace.  I have never liked the idea of a time limit of one month, it is too restrictive.  My original suggestion was for an award for 10 pieces without any time constraints.  It doesn't matter whether you manage to post 10 poems in one month, 2 months or 2 years, my idea was to acknowledge the fact that someone has reached that number.

Nina

[Cybele]

[b]Hello Nina,

I agree with you Grace.  I have never liked the idea of a time limit of one month, it is too restrictive.  My original suggestion was for an award for 10 pieces without any time constraints.  It doesn't matter whether you manage to post 10 poems in one month, 2 months or 2 years, my idea was to acknowledge the fact that someone has reached that number.

I am very pleased you agree Nina. I am sorry, I must have missed your posting with this suggestion.  I was quoting from Lori's last posting immediately above mine.


I think your idea is the best solution so far Nina.  :hsdance:  

[Psyche]

Hi

I agree with you Grace.  I have never liked the idea of a time limit of one month, it is too restrictive.  My original suggestion was for an award for 10 pieces without any time constraints.  It doesn't matter whether you manage to post 10 poems in one month, 2 months or 2 years, my idea was to acknowledge the fact that someone has reached that number.

Nina

Hi Grace, hi Nina & everybody !

I also agree with Grace & Nina on not putting any time limits. I believe I already said this, when I seconded Grace's motion some days ago.
In my case, I haven't been able to post anything at all for two weeks, about which I'm very sorry. I don't believe I ever posted 5 times in a month. Many people must be in an even worse situation as regards time for participation and posting.

As Grace has said, quantity is not necessarily quality.

If there were any time limit, I suggest it be something like a whole year, altho' that might also make it feel a bit like school...  :speechless:  Shock , you know, rushing to study for exams at the last minute....  :p

Anyway, all in all, MM is fantastic as it is, Lori can't please all of the people all of the time. Neither would it be a wise thing - at least in my humble opinion - to sacrifice some of the excellent quality of this poetry website, for the sake of higher membership and/or participation. I've moved on to thinking of MM as a wonderful family, where people come and go, squabble a little now & then, but are united by their love of poetry and life !  :cheer:

Hugs to all,
Psyche

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi.  :wave:

We are thinking of changing the Wizard to be awarded based on "new topics posted" instead of total replies made. In this manner, each member will be given the award once the qualifications are met. The Wizard award mini plaque will only be displayed once in your signature but I will keep track of subsequent wizard awards as they occur - but I may need help.

The suggestion thus far is:

Post a minimum of 10 new topics for critique in any of our 4 critique forums and receive the Wizard award. There is no time limit. Prose forums count as 2 for 1 to poetry forums, i.e. 6 poems and 2 prose tiles count as 10.

The following CRIT forums qualify and will be analyzed and awarded according to the rules (once a final determination is made and agreed upon):
[*]Herme's Homilies - our  fixed form, R & M poetry crit forum
[*]Seren's Synapse - our free verse poetry crit forum
[*]Stonehenge - our short prose crit forum
[*]Loch Ness - our chapters crit forum  

We may also substitute FLASH responses perhaps...

Have I gotten the idea correctly stated Fran, Grace, Alan, Nina, James and Larry?

As always, all member input is much appreciated...

Cleo  :pharoah:

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello all.

With regard to the Wizard award suggested changes above, does anyone have issue with this idea or another idea perhaps? I'd like to get these changes in place this month.

Thanks in advance...
~Cleo

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori, et al,

I still think it rather sad to lose the link between posts and reading / commenting. I know that all sorts of "snippets" contribute towards Wizards in that way but I would still argue that the original stimulus is the original work and that writers write to be read and talked about. So, for me, the Wizard remains - by far - the most important award on MM. Competitions are fine - but one can only vote for one winner. Moreover, they are very subjective and hard to judge.

Also, where competitions have nominations and we can nominate one writer more than once (e.g. Toumai in a recent competition) they may well receive many votes but not win because the votes are split between their items (which was not of their doing because others nominated).

So, for me, competitions are very strange things. In fact, save on MM, I've not entered one for years. I suppose I must do again but I have no enthusiasm for them (MM excepted because it is rather different - but they are still competitions).

The Wizards have always acknowledged interest and response, so, for me, their loss would be very  sad. My big problem is that I know I gained quite a few Wizards the other month (though I only show one - like anyone else who has won one - which is right) so my comments seem self-serving. They are not intended that way.

I would also make the point that, unlike competitions, one person winning a Wizard does not preclude others winning it too. (OK crits can't be everywhere, so critting one may mean not critting another but if A wins a competition, B certainly cannot).

I am not against an award for x postings (ten seems fine) - I would place the emphasis upon the member to notify the staff. I see no reason for us to be spending ages totting up. When we're notified by a member of their ten posts, we can quickly verify. But if a member can't be bothered to keep track then tell us (or doesn't wish to) then why should be tie ourselves up trying to conscientiously keep track? I see no reason and wouldn‘t be willing to do that. However, having said that, I think an award would be fine for X (10) postings - but I would be very sad indeed to see the Wizard changed to do that. Can we not use something else?

I think we have an award for flashes so I would not include them in totting up the posts.

Hope this helps???

All the best, J.

[JLY]

Lori,
I have been equally perplexed about this subject and James has presented some thoughtful points of view.
The attraction of MM to me is that it's a "family of poets/writers" who come together to share their work and to improve their craft.  The competitive angst that is prevalent on other sites is not heavily laden here.  
Everyone loves to have their work singled out and recognized as being "the best at the moment" cause that is a human nature kind of thing but that is not the prevailing reason for our continual participation.

I have come to admire a select group of writers and enjoy reading their work and eagerly look forward to their postings, but I know my poetic tastes may not be the same as someone else and therefore my judgment may be impaired when voting for competitions.

I think we all share the goal of expanding our membership.  A new poet contemplating becoming an active M. M. participant may have concerns if they feel that the competitions/award process involves a select group(despite the fact that this group may be indeed worthy of special acknowledgement for their postings).

I guess I am going in circles and have yet to come up with a concrete solution for the best way to facilitate awards:
for the truly best poems?
quanity of poems(even though quantity may not mean quality)?
lifetime achievement?

JLY

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks James and John.  :cali:

A few prelimiary thoughts on your posts:

I would like to emphasis that the Wizard award (I sound like  broken record methinks) was never intended to be awarded based on QUALITY of the work. It is based on number of replies/views.

I'd like to give some background on the reason I created the Wizard. It was based on my experiences from the Poem Kingdom forum board (now known as Poetropolis) as most of you recall. Very rarely would any poem (since that site had no prose forums) on any of the crit and non-crit forums there receive more than a handful of responses by other members. The most popular threads generally had an average of 12-16 replies (including the thanks for your crit comments by the original poet of the thread).

I was always attracted to read those threads first because I often wondered why there was so many more replies to them. The less popular threads (80-90% of the posts there) only had a handful or two of replies. SO, for myself, I began to comment on those 'less poular' threads wherever I could to raise the average there.

Anyone today (still) would be hard-pressed to find a post with more than 20 replies at PK and when you can - that signals a thread well-read. I never viewed it as 'a better piece' - simply as a well-read piece which deserved attention. That is and still remains just an opinion of mine.  :grinning:

So - the intent behind the Wizard is to 'call-out attention' to those tiles here at MM visually and be rewarded  :wizard: with a 'well done' pat on the back.  

Now that I've given some background on why the Wizard was created here on MM, let me speak to what I've observed since our start up.

One of the vast differences I see here on MM that I feel make us unique is the sheer willingness and desire by our active members to offer 'friendly feedback' to help the writer make his/her work as refined a piece as they seek it to be. This was my goal and it is so heart-warming to see this through to fruition every time I log in.  :hsdance:

In the process of posting comments (in our crit forums), we also gain a distinct advantage of 'learning' not only more in depth about the work(s) posted but about each other as people. To me, that is worth more than any competition winning or designation.

What I gather from these discussions around the  :wizard:  thus far is this:

Most have no issue.
Some think they represent 'quality' and question it's value - which they DO NOT, so this is a HUGE mis-understanding about the award.
Some have no opinion about them.
Some find them annoying.
Some love them.
Most agree they are attention-getters.
Because some tend to interact moreso about the TOPIC of the work in the threads, this is seen as somehow negative. I beg to differ IMO.

Again - the purpose of the Wizard is to recognize those works that DRIVE attention, in whatever manner it does and recognize it.  :wizard:

As for suggestions about changing it - I've stated them as they have been offered. I've left this up to the members to decide. What else can I do? I run a democratic site.  :cool:

I would like to again state two other awards that are available to nominate that I believe fit the desire of QUALITY (and I've even added a note in my signature about them too):

The Crown Jewels Award is awarded for Excellence in 'Writing Form' and the Faery Award that is awarded for tiles that best capture our muses (emotional response).

Both awards can be nominated by any member of MM at any time. There is no voting and one nomination is all that is required. So, when you read a work on MM that really speaks to you, either emotionally or by it's excellence in form - please DO nominate it immediately.
The thread is here: http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/cgi-bin....ry41428


As for awards being given for an X number of posts reached in crit forums - perhaps - but if you are a regular, would an award to designate that fact really matter to you? The analysis involved for me (unless others help) to 'keep track' would be extremely time consuming and I fear I would never get to interact in our member posts if I continue spending time administrating only.

In case some did not know, we have already made a change to the Pandora's Chaos challenges in that we no longer VOTE a winner. Simply post in THREE different monthly challenges and you'll receive the award.  

Thanks all - your feedback is appreciated.
~Cleo  :pharoah:

[Psyche]

Hi there everybody !  

Of course it goes without saying that we can't expect our busy Mods to count our postings. I believe I'd forget to count my own, especially if a long time goes by in between. Never find them, in spite of all the facilities for doing so...  

I thought one of the Mods had suggested the option of 10 or so posts, and it sounded fine to me, but now it doesn't any more, if it means more work for everyone concerned. No way !    Again, thank you all for your crits and for creating a friendly atmosphere.  

Since Cleo asks for our opinions, I try to participate and, hopefully, be of some use, that's all. Which means that anybody can change their opinions as the debate progresses, OK?

Concerning the voting for Pandora Awards, or any other votings, it wasn't ever my opinion that the voting and/or the awards be eliminated, not at all. It just seemed to me that wearing the awards in the forums was a bit much, taking into account the low number of participating voters. I like awards as much as the next person ! A pat on the back is ALWAYS welcome, too   
Just find the awards a bit cumbersome to carry around with me all the time , as well as other reasons already mentioned.  
Well, that's all,
hugs to all,
Sylvia  

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi all.

I've been thinking about all the ideas collectively shared (and let me say thank you to all) - this has been a wonderful exchange!

What I would like to recommend based on all the input is the following:

Wizard Award

*Graphic provided by
Celtic Castle Designs

Either keeping the Wizard Award as is or increasing the requirement to 30 replies/125 views (since we like to post in-depth discussions surrounding the topic of the tiles at hand). Keep in mind off-topic discussions should be deleted or moved to another thread. I still think these a valuable recognition. The Wizard Award is granted to those tiles who have achieved a minimum of 125 views AND 25 (or 30?) replies.


I do not mind keeping track of the next four award ideas if everyone replies here with their nod of approval.

These four new awards will be awarded based on "new topics posted" instead of total replies made. In this manner, each member will be given the award once the qualifications are met. The award mini plaques will only be displayed once in your signature but I will keep track of subsequent awards as they occur - but I may need help.

Goblet Award

*Graphic provided by
Celtic Castle Designs

Post 10 new topics for critique in Herme's Homilies - our fixed form, R & M poetry crit forum and receive the Goblet award. There is no time limit.



Knight Award

*Graphic provided by
Celtic Castle Designs

Post 10 new topics for critique in Seren's Synapse - our free verse poetry crit forum and receive the Knight award. There is no time limit.



Celtic Dragon Award

*Graphic provided by
Celtic Castle Designs

Post 5 new topics for critique in Stonehenge - our short prose crit forum and receive the Celtic Dragon award. There is no time limit.



Celtic Knot Award

*Graphic provided by
Celtic Castle Designs

Post 3 new topics for critique in Loch Ness - our chapters crit forum and receive the Celtic Knot award. There is no time limit.

I can easily keep track of "New Posts" by member name within each forum utilizing our existing sort by start date/member name functionality. I can also maintain an excel database for these. What will be simpler for me is not having to cross-count posts in all 4 crit forums and add teh math that way. So - once a member reaches the 10 posts in Hermes - they will receive the Goblet; 10 in Seren's for the Knight, etc....

I would like to begin this new crit form recognition for the month of June. Can you all reply here with your nod - yeah or nah please at least for the four new awards? If you care to chime in re: wizard - please do as well...

Please let me know if you like FOUR different award plaques OR if we should only use TWO (one plaque for poetry and one for prose). If you only want TWO - which ones please?  

I think these are a wonderful recognition of member interaction...

Do you?

Cheers!
~Cleo  

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Lori

If we are going to keep the Wizard Awards as before then I think it should be 25/125 not 30/125

Nina

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Nina.

Hopefully, others will reply to the Wizard dilemma.

What do you think of the other awards? Do you like them?

~Lori

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi all.  :sun:

I've just received the following email response from Marcia, our Nubian healer with regard to the suggestion above to add the four new awards for new posts in crit forums:

Hello ! Just a short reply since you seem to want feedback from your membership. I think the awards proposals are excelllent.
Let's Go !!!
marcia

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori, Nina et al,

A Wizard dilemma! Sounds like a problem for Harry Potter! Sorry. Anyway...

I also think 25/125 is the best ratio. There are not that many posts which seem to achieve that level of response. (Even though I seem to have hit it a few times, compared with the number of my posts it is not a very big percentage at all).

As regards t'other awards...

My next answer depends on how difficult it is for you to keep track...

However, in general terms I think an award for each forum's postings is a good idea. And ten for poetry and five for prose also sounds good to me. As regards keeping track - I see no reason why members should not be asked to inform you when they have met the posting requirements (if they wish). I would have thought it an admin nightmare to keep track. Your choice but I wouldn't try, if I were you.

The images are fine except, I must say that the knight looks rather camp.

J.

[Guest_Nina_*]

Hi Lori

The new awards sound like a good idea and keeping it to one forum will make it easier to keep track of.  I agree with James that there is no reason why members shouldn't keep a track of their own postings and inform you when they have hit the magic ten or five.

The images are fine except, I must say that the knight looks rather camp.
LOL, I'm sorry but I have to agree and I won't be able to look at him now and keep a straight face.

Nina

[Cleo_Serapis]

LOL! Alrighty then - for those who didn't see it - it's GONE now.

I've replaced it with a new Knight award.

What do you think?