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Mosaic Musings...interactive poetry reviews _ ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 _ I Can't (Revised 21 Aug)
Posted by: Cyn Aug 16 06, 14:40
I Can't
This island’s rock still holds the heat, just like the day we landed - loved,
some thirty years ago - a blink of time - yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing, ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I have a hard time understanding how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress, you and I and no one else.
But now I learn that she has never left you, though I came to stay
and I can’t help but question all you’ve made me think about the way
you see our love, and when it lacks, your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to, when you come to know I can’t.
I Can’t
This island’s rock still holds the heat
just like the day we landed, loved,
some thirty years ago, a blink
of time, yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing,
ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink,
loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I have a hard time understanding
how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress,
you and I and no one else.
But now I learn that some have never
left you, though I came to stay
and I can’t help but question all
you’ve made me think about the way
you see our love, and when it lacks,
your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to,
when you come to know I can’t.
Posted by: Peterpan Aug 16 06, 14:48
Gee, Cyn~ you are rolling them out?
Love the theme and the content of this poem, full of sensitivity and sharing and understanding.
Keep 'em coming...I love reading them.
PP
Posted by: ArtesiaMeeks Aug 16 06, 17:53
Wow CYN..............THIS GAVE ME CHILL BUMPS as I read it. My favorite line is
I have a hard time understanding
how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress,
just you and I and no one else.
and I agree with Daniel that JUST need not be there.
maybe make each stanza four lines......"yours to use or lose"
AM
Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 16 06, 17:56
Hi Cyn.
Before I offer a critique, is this a specific form, or should this be moved to Seren's (free verse forum) ?
Regards.
Lori
Posted by: Cyn Aug 16 06, 23:14
It is not free verse. It is syllabic so it cannot be categorized as free verse. It does not rhyme but all metered work does not rhyme. It is not a specific form other than it has a syllabic count.
Daniel send me a private message. You are right, just should not be there, it messes up the count
Posted by: Cyn Aug 16 06, 23:38
PS if you feel it must be moved since it does not conform to what this forum considers metered verse, then please just put it in the non-critique forum. It is not free verse and should not be critiqued as such. Thanks!
Posted by: JustDaniel Aug 17 06, 05:28
[Re-posted]
Another thought-provoking piece, Cyn... even a bit alarming
but then provoked thought can get one alarmend... and that's what writers want to elicit from their readers, right?
The narrator seems questioning a long-standing relationship... or rather notes the questioning of the other partner's questioning ? while affirming their own continuing relationship.
The largely iambic tetrameter with enjambed variants is effective with your unrhyming couplets.
This island’s rock still holds the heat
just like the day we landed, loved,
[ Powerful, eloquent opening statement! ]
some thirty years ago, a blink
[ maybe more of a break than a comma ? ]
of time, yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing,
ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink,
loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
[ interesting details ]
I have a hard time understanding
how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress,
[ unnecessary half-beat in light of your other instances of enjambement ]
But now I learn that some have never
left you, though I came to stay
and I can’t help but question all
you’ve made me think about[...] the way
you see our love, and when it lacks,
your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to,
when you come to know I can’t.
Just my fleeting notes for the moment...
but I'll be back.
deLighting in the interchange, Daniel
Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 17 06, 05:33
Daniel send me a private message. You are right, just should not be there, it messes up the count
Hi Cyn.
Thanks for your clarification to my question, I wanted to confirm (and others) the meterical pattern to understand the format you were following with this piece so we can keep meter in mind when offering our critiques in Herme's.
As Daniel had mentioned:
This is clearly not a free verse poem Cyn - would you mind adding 'metered couplets' to your title description or in your poem so we'll be sure to keep the metrical aspect in mind?
I look forward to commenting very soon!
Cheers
~Cleo
Posted by: Cyn Aug 17 06, 11:30
Absolutely Cleo. I can add that to the subject line to help readers (it just seemed very obvious to me - sorry)
I look forward to your comments.
Daniel you were/are right on, as always
Cyn
Posted by: AMETHYST Aug 19 06, 17:04
Hello Cyn,
The theme and metaphor that has been planted through out. Unfortunately, I would recommend quatrains, rather than couplets to heighten the subject, however this may be a personal perference.
I found to off set the lack of end rhymes, I would suggest an inner sonance, such as alliteration, assonance and other sound enhancers that will add more of a poetic touch to the poem.
I too, would not have seen this as 'obviously metered' as it faulters in several lines and when writing in blank verse, wheather it is couplets, sonnet's or narrative (which this also does not fall under) it needs to adhere to a strict iambic meter. And even iambic substitutes, should be effective yet, used sparingly.
Some further thoughts and comments to follow... Wishing you luck with this... the subject and theme go well together and I look forward to the growth of the poem.
Best Wishes, Liz
I really llike the title. It leaves the reader to imagine the extent of the narrators refusal. There is pain within the convicition of the words and comes off strong to this reader as defiant.
This island’s rock still holds the heat
just like the day we landed, loved,
some thirty years ago, a blink
of time, yet something so much more.
Again, I would suggest combining the two stanzas into one. The opening stanza, brings in the idea of associating the lovers with the theme of sea and islands... is a nice image to compare relationships and the movements of emotion. L2, I felt a full stop after landed or perhaps ..
just like the day we landed; loved,
some thirty years ago, a blink
of time, yet something so much more.
I found these line to be too evasive and non-specific to allow me, as the reader, into the aspect of what the narrator is expressing.
Perhaps...
This island's rock still holds the heat
just like the day we landed; loved,
some thirty years ago. A blink
of time, and yet our love was more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing,
ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink,
loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
S3: This is where the meter becomes irratic. I liked L5 metaphor ahd how paddle-stroked, very fresh and original angle to enhance the theme, a good execution of a unique image. As for meter... I read this as an attempt for a headless iamb, but felt too noticable to be effective.
S4: A very crisp image, lovely images that are full and 'ripe' loved ... loon-listening; quiet in the dark. '
I have a hard time understanding
how we got from there to here.
This headless Iamb is a little more smooth and less forced-and the meaning of the lines are stronger...showing the narrator's sense of regret or confusion, as if she/he is coming awake and realizing a new reality as she/he hadn't before.
Our island once had been our fortress,
you and I and no one else.
But now I learn that some have never
left you, though I came to stay
I scan these lines as:
our ISland once HAD been OUR FORtress,
YOU and I and NO one ELSE
(this is not a headless iamb, and the meter really needs some tweaking to get it back on track. )
Again, these lines are much to vague and unspecific, uncleared and leaves me lost in what is actually happening-
The narrator learns that some (who are these some) have never left you (the narrator is telling the subject that he/she has many involved people that rerhaps live with him/her.
and I can’t help but question all
you’ve made me think about the way
Suggest a full stop after about. then caping 'The way
you see our love, and when it lacks,
your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to,
when you come to know I can’t.
Considering this is supposed to be Tetrameter, without end rhymes, which allows you the freedom to end on unrhymed words, I would suggest not ending on weak words such as 'to'
Why not bring down 'to' to the next line and smooth out the full stanzas meter.
These final stanzas hold a lot of filler words. Perhaps finding alternate words to enhance the sounds and images will also improve the poem.
As I mentioned, blank verse should make more use of inner rhymes and sounds, also making use of your feet, each line has many weak points where you can make better use of your feet. Using such techniques as headless iambs, double iambs and emjambments, in couplets should be used sparingly and be a postitive addition to the poem. Having some reaons. As this reads to me like a prose paragraph, chopped into couplets. Making considered revisions to enhance the sounds within each line, reconsidering many of your filler words and illiminating the weaker headless iambs would greatly improve the poetic value of this poem.
I look forward to any revisions to come... Best to you, Liz
Posted by: Cyn Aug 20 06, 23:58
edited
See if this makes it clearer. It should be read kind of matter of fact.
Posted by: AMETHYST Aug 21 06, 10:34
Hi Cyn,
I think the revision, although 16 syllable lines is perhaps not what you were really wanting, and my suggestions certainly were not to imply that you change the poem's intent. You could have kept to the Tetrameter and just did some minor revisions to fix the stanzas that were rough. Yet, the revision is done in meter and many of the area's that felt vague, are more fuller now.
Either way, it is your poem and I found pleasure in the read. To me, it was thought provoking and relative to many readers.
This island’s rock still holds the heat, just like the day we landed - loved,
some thirty years ago - a blink of time - yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing, ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I have a hard time understanding how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress, you and I and no one else.
But now I learn that she has never left you, though I came to stay
and I can’t help but question all you’ve made me think about; the way
you see our love, and when it lacks,
can make you feel the way you ought to, when you come to know I can’t.
[b] The final line I feel you want to either say...
that maybe someone else can make you feel the way you ought to with me...
or
that maybe someone else can make you feel the way you do, when you come to know I can't.
Either are strong endings for the poem and I wasn't sure if the two sort have got blended into one. The subject is done IMO excellent, the reason being is it is often done (unfortunately so many people, in some way go through this heartache) but you offer in the poem, a tone of full truth... speaking straight and not buttering up the harsh points. I think that is a key to the poems strength.
I found this a little more complete in meter aspect. Although, at first glance the longer length lines appear prose, the meter is well done and the fuller lines, offers clarified meanings to bring a fuller picture in this readers mind.
Best Wishes, Liz
Posted by: Cyn Aug 21 06, 17:25
Your critiques (both) were very much appreciated. I will work on making the last line clearer as well.
Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 21 06, 18:50
Hi Cyn.
I hope you don't mind, I'd like to offer a small bit of crit on your first 4 lines to see what you think of my suggestions before I continue on through the rest of your piece.
I am not an expert on meter, as I only go by how the lines sound (the da dums) when I read them aloud. 
I must say I definitely prefer your revised version over the couplets as it is visually more appealing. I think it also pulls the story together more cohesively.
Just tackling the first four lines here, I get a sense that a young couple took a chance (the metaphor of island) a pilgrimage on Plymouth Rock so to speak, with hopes of a bright future together in the 'new world'.
This island’s rock still holds the heat, just like the day we {landed} [settled] - loved,
some thirty years ago[;] {-} a blink of time - yet something so much more.
I offer settled as an alternative to landed for its subtler meter. I was thinking of the grains of sands in an hourglass and thought of the following as an alternate:
some thirty years ago; a grain in time – polished to something more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing, ate and fed our bodies, minds. (NICE)!
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I feel some bumps here so I suggest replacing listening and quiet to smooth the meter. Perhaps:
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-eavesdropping in tranquil night.
I'll be back again Cyn.
~Cleo
Post Script add:
Thoughts on the next two lines Cyn for meter purposes again of course:
I have a hard time understanding [comprehending] how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress, you and I and no one else.
Suggest:
Our island, once a fortress shared, by you and I and no someone else.
OR
Our island, once a private fortress, soon was shared with someone else.
The problem with the endstop above is that I do not feel this is a complete answer to the line above it. I want to say the island was once a fortress shared only by the two BUT something happened, or someone happened - and I want to read the next line for confirmation.
Does this make sense Cyn?
Posted by: Eisa Aug 21 06, 20:00
Hi Cyn
It is good to read your work again. I've just written -- and lost a critique on this ...grrrrr.... so I'll start again. 
I seem to have arrived after everyone else, so I won't read through comments , so excuse me if I repeat what might have been said.
I see you have revised this and my personal preference would have been to see it in quatrains as it initially looks like prose...but that's just me! 
Your revision has evened out a lot of bumps which is good. 
A few in-line thoughts
This island’s rock still holds the heat, just like the day we landed - loved,
some thirty years ago - a blink of time - yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing, ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I have a hard time understanding how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress, you and I and no one else.
But now I learn that she has never left you, though I came to stay
and I can’t help but question all you’ve made me think about the way
you see our love, and when it lacks, your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to, when you come to know I can’t.
L1 -- I like the start with the island metaphor
L2 -- yet something so much more -- perhaps you could find a more descriptive way of saying this line.
We paddle-stroked -- I love this description and the others that follow in the next lines.
you and I and no one else -- this sounds repetitive.
The last half of the poem seems to lose its descriptive images and has many filler words. The last line has 3 you's. It would be lovely to see you take the metaphor at the beginning through to the end in some way.
I hope something I have said may help in some way.
Snow 
Posted by: AMETHYST Aug 21 06, 22:36
Hi Cyn,
I've read the recent comments and was wondering about the interpretation. I read it as the narrator gets involved with someone who makes the narrator think that their 'ex' is gone, but after finding comfort in the person, sharing and believing this was the two of them, she/he finds out that the person is still in the old relationship. Of course, I am not sure if this is your intent, because, the poem can be read on a multi-layered surface and, I for one, think that is a positive attribute to a poem well done. When it reflects also the experience for different readers.
I wanted to say that this poem reaches that goal and can 'touch' the heart and mind of many slightly bringing their own experiences and/or fears into the forefront of their relationship with the poem.
Good work.
Also, as Snow mentioned, I also think Quatrains would work best with this poem. Of course, whichever fits your liken is what you need to go with. When I suggested that the couplets didn't compliment the poem, and that quatrains might work better, I didn't mean you shouldn't have couplets. I love your poetry and think that this, though it needed some work, is a vital poem that really gets to the heart of 'relationships', deceit and disappointment between those that we trust.
Best WIshes, Liz
Posted by: Cyn Aug 22 06, 01:38
Liz
Please never fear that your intent was misinterpreted. I am not sure it will work as quatrains but I agree it did not necessarily work as couplets. Therefore the change to see if that worked better.
It does not hold the sonics or even the imagery of most of my work and really should read as train of thought in a way. Is that poetry. I dunno, maybe not. Does it evoke a response in the reader? maybe, or so it seems.
Cleo and Snow I will look at your suggestions, but I think they may inadvertently skew the meaning I am trying for (which maybe means my meaning is unclear LOL) but I agree that sometimes ambiguity makes the poem more approachable by more people.
hard to know which way to go. Still pondering this one
Posted by: AMETHYST Aug 22 06, 06:41
Hi Cyn,
Yes, I will say the ambiguity within the poem does work. 
Hugs, Liz
Posted by: JustDaniel Aug 22 06, 10:52
Greetings, Cyn...
I was a bit surprised to see your poem recast in this format. Personally, I liked it as simple non-rhyming iambic tetrameter couplets... with its flavor of blank verse... though it could have been possibly rearranged in tercets, quatrains, or even uneven (no pun intended) stanzas.
Your revision does have a few minor punctuation changes, but that's the only difference -- and they are improvements, but if you're going to leave it this way, I'd like to see you break it something like this (with one punctuation change for emphasis, the next for grammar, and the third for clarity):
This island’s rock still holds the heat, just like the day we landed - loved,
some thirty years ago - a blink of time - yet something so much more.
We paddle-stroked our way to knowing, ate and fed our bodies, minds.
Wild fish and berries shared with mink, loon-listening, quiet, in the dark.
I have a hard time understanding how we got from there to here.
Our island once had been our fortress, you and I[...] and no one else.
But now I learn that she has never left you, though I came to stay[,] [ You could also possibly choose a semi-colon because of the complexity of this sentence. ]
and I can’t help but question all you’ve made me think[,] about the way
you see our love, and when it lacks, your thoughts that maybe someone else
can make you feel the way you ought to, when you come to know I can’t.
In doing a wee bit of research about iambic hexameter (which seems much more fitting for an epic poem than for a brief reflection such as this, though your piece does feel more comfortable to me as is... with the line breaks), I stumbled across a site about the Canadian performance epic poem (intended for an audience to experience rather than to read, evidently) that I gather is done totally in iambic hexameter.
This site about http://www.stanford.edu/~jackm/poem.htm has a very interesting discourse on meter in general and the choice of this particular meter for the production. I have not yet had time to digest it, but in scanning (or the facsimile thereof that my sad eyes attempt) it, I surmise that you and others will find this MOST HELPFUL.
It's my deLight to share it with you.
P.S. By the way, your last sentence (the final quatrain) is a doozie!!
- Daniel
Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Aug 22 06, 11:48
Hi Cyn.
Would you mind adding the meter again to your title description please?
iambic hexameter
We can put the revised date in the topic title I think.
Thanks
Lori 
Posted by: Arnfinn Aug 27 06, 07:35
Whoa...Halt!
Poetry can decipher FORM!
Poetry to all... is reading and appreciation.
This is a very good poem.
And should be judged as such.
Forget about the percieved Form.
One well written poem...Can be FORM.
NJOYED,
Thank you my dear for posting. 
We must break the mold of nodding heads. 
Judge your fellow poets by what you read. 
Every person at MM is an artist, and places before us individual thoughts on a miriad of subjects.
Of course, Arnie's view. 
John 
Posted by: Cyn Aug 27 06, 23:36
LOL
Thanks John
Posted by: JustDaniel Aug 28 06, 03:05
I agree with John, of course, Cyn...
but, uh...
well, you'll get around to it, I'm guessin'...
Posted by: Cyn Aug 28 06, 18:11
Sorry Daniel
I missed your post? Ah, yes I see I did. Shoot. I am very unorganized in this these days and not fully present, please forgive me. Yes I WILL get to it. I promise.
My life might get back to normal one of these days but once my son is back in school and I am finished with the clinic I am doing (horse stuff) i will be less scattered and keep better track
Cyn
Posted by: JustDaniel Sep 11 06, 05:05
I can't cant over such an oversight, my friend. I was just horsin' around too! 
distributin' Light, Dan'l 
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