Haiku or not, Wizard Award ~ haiku without season Options

[Terocon101]

Hello again Danny boy,

glad you enjoyed, I can hardly take any credit for it but I definitely enjoyed all the interaction and the process. I like the end product, but I would never have been able to write a haiku like that by myself.

I like this forum too, it was only just opened when I arrived so I'm sure it will attract other haijin, I plan to keep trying anyway.

Terry

[Guest_Rosemerta_*]

Hey there, Terry,

It has been interesting reading through all the input this thread has generated. Isn't it fascinating how a few little words can take on several lives? You've received some wonderful suggestions and have not one but several pieces to show from it.

I hope you wont mind my tossing in my 2 cents as well since I noticed somewhere that you really wanted to make this a haiku and stick to your original words as best you could.

Softly so softly
you kiss me, I felt it not
not upon my skin

Haiku and Senryu both have syllable counts of 5-7-5 so you have that part right. The difference is that Haiku strictly involves that from nature while Senryu covers pretty much everything else topic wise. Most romantic poems of of this count would fall under Senryu. Thus you pretty much have to choose between the two.

These are the examples I see with your original words to fill each intent:

Senryu
Softly you kiss me
Leaving me wanting more than
Void upon my skin

Haiku
Soft snowflake kisses
Void of cold upon my skin
In my summer’s dream

I hope this helps, if nothing more than in explaination. I like your revisions just fine.

~~Jackie

[Terocon101]

Hey there, Terry,

It has been interesting reading through all the input this thread has generated. Isn't it fascinating how a few little words can take on several lives? You've received some wonderful suggestions and have not one but several pieces to show from it.

I hope you wont mind my tossing in my 2 cents as well since I noticed somewhere that you really wanted to make this a haiku and stick to your original words as best you could.

Softly so softly
you kiss me, I felt it not
not upon my skin

Haiku and Senryu both have syllable counts of 5-7-5 so you have that part right. The difference is that Haiku strictly involves that from nature while Senryu covers pretty much everything else topic wise. Most romantic poems of of this count would fall under Senryu. Thus you pretty much have to choose between the two.

These are the examples I see with your original words to fill each intent:

Senryu
Softly you kiss me
Leaving me wanting more than
Void upon my skin

Haiku
Soft snowflake kisses
Void of cold upon my skin
In my summer’s dream

I hope this helps, if nothing more than in explanation. I like your revisions just fine.

~~Jackie

Hi Jakie,

Thanks so much for your two edits, really cool the way you've written a haiku and a senyru from the original.
I suppose I'll have to call mine a senyru since it deals in human experience. I can live with that.

Thanks again, I look forward to interacting with you in the future.

Terry

[4rum]

Hey Terry...

I think when contemplating a new discipline, one should study the accepted variations on the forms then decide on one widely accepted form in that discipline. Haiku, senryu, sonnet or villanell, there are different variations of these and almost every form known. We will have to decide how truly traditional we want our poem to be and then it would save us much time and grief to give a brief description of the form we use.

Most scholars of strict Japanese haiku maintain the 17 sylables, 5-7-5, a reference to season, NO reference to human qualities etc... BUT then there are those who find exception and allow many variations. We will always encounter both persuasions, strict disciplined writers and more permissive folks. It might be advantagous to add a note or a link giving reference to the style we choose.

Personally I feel it is good to learn one, very strict discipline of any form we choose. Once we have learned to do it "proper" then we may wish to experiment.

Very nice work, I won't try to classify it, others have done that better than I could already.

[Terocon101]

Hi Sam,

firstly, it's a pleasure to meet you and welcome

I'm sure you will enjoy it here.

Thanks for your response and for sharing your opinion with me on the 'proper' and 'traditional' practice of writing.
I both agree and totally disagree with with you, "..one should study the accepted variations on the forms then decide on one widely accepted form in that discipline."
Why should one choose just 'one' form, or why should it be the 'widely accepted' one??
Each to their own, choose what you like... or don't, whatever.

Of course I have begun study of the Japanese short forms..it is a lifetimes task and I relish it. Although I personally do not like to place constraints on myself when it comes to writing or any art-form I experiment with. I still enjoy 'ku's with their abundance of rules and constraints, many of which are very hard to explain and really have to be felt and grasped by the writer.

Its a pleasure to discuss this with you and I look forward to reading your offerings and forther interaction.

Terry

[4rum]

Morning Terry;

Part of the point there was in the opening of the sentence:

I think when contemplating a new discipline, one should study the accepted variations on the forms then decide on one widely accepted form in that discipline.

My intent being that one must start somewhere. I usually begin with research and try to learn the history of the form, it's culture, something of the mechanics, something about it's reason, rhythm, or purpose.

Once I have developed an appreciation for the form (or decided I don't like it) then I may "choose" to practice, vary, or abandon as I wish.

Thanks for you reply... I really feel we DO agree.

[JustDaniel]

... but I think that others have well noted that 5-7-5 though 'strictly followed' by many American fans of haiku are, strictly speaking, not following the 'strict Japanese' looseness of the form...

'nuff said...

and I agree with the need for study into the background and history of a particular form, working with it, and then diciding how YOU want to utilize it to say what you want to say and how you want to say it.

In my view, though I appreciate the care and attention that many of our colleagues give to a strict traditional linking, each of us has to give our own voice to these 'instant insights' and 'aha moments' Let's all take a picture of that dewdrop on a morning rose... and VOILA.... we have 50 beautiful snapshots of the same dewdrop... each from a different vantage point, each capturing the light slightly differently... a few of them PORTRAITS of a dewdrop.

Write on!

deLighting in the process, Daniel

[Terocon101]

Hey Daniel,

Yeah, I think we're all in mutual agreement with only slight deviations on this topic. Aren't those 'slight deviations' controversial though?? Just like the slight differences between various religions and the resulting holy wars

Daniel said::
"Let's all take a picture of that dewdrop on a morning rose... and VOILA.... we have 50 beautiful snapshots of the same dewdrop... each from a different vantage point, each capturing the light slightly differently... a few of them PORTRAITS of a dewdrop. "

Thats a great idea Daniel, I wonder if we could put it to one of the moderators? It could be a weekly Acropolis challenge or something.
There's a name for it too where you write a haiku/senryu to couple a short paragraph of prose. Whats it called?? Haibin, I think, not sure. (just done a bit of research, its called haibun)

eg, (quoting from your post)

"that dewdrop on a morning rose... "

I might reply:

a summer sunrise-
in dewdrops
a red rose

Just playing a bit with 'rose' and 'rise' there. LOL

Anyway, having fun with your stimulus

[Lady Poet]

Yes! Yes! YES!!!

Terry your 4th revision is superlative! Exquisitly succinct. Vibrant and alive with wonderful evocative imagery! In this case you have proven beyond any shadows that less is more.
Superior haiku that I found delightful and enchanting! Perfection!

Blessings, Pami

[Terocon101]

Hi Pami,

I have to say I'm happy with that response, well my vainity certainly is, LOL.

This was such a great experience to write, my first workshopped haiku, the results can be great, as long as one remembers who the author is, and isnt afraid to stay the course.

Thank-you so much for your words and more-so for the energy that they have given me.

Best wishes

.

[Lady Poet]

You're so very welcome Terry...this modern formatted haiku gave me great pleasure! What do you mean by workshopped? Are there classes here? I've not quite got the hang of navigating, but I'm working on it...lol.

::Smiles:: Pami

[Terocon101]

Classes...here...?...Well, yes & no, by workshopping I mean the combined efforts of the resident poets and myself in this thread and others. All the advice is great and this ku definately reaped the rewards, if I do say so myself.

It works as long as you are comfortable to take some advice but not all. I sometimes feel like someone may be insulted by my not implimenting their suggestions, but the piece will be a mish-mash and my meaning will get lost if I were to do that, so its a good process as long as you know what you want and are stedfast in that. That said, sometimes a natural evolution takes place, and thats ok too. I think that happened with this one.



.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Congrats Terry on your wizard award winning tile!

Well done!

~Cleo