Windchimes (revised 29 May), Wizard Award ~ Haiku Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks Don!

I just added the two I took here yesterday and the tulips one from Maine as attachments in the original post. The the first and last are from Maine and the two in the middle are from Stow.

Cheers
~Cleo

[Guest_Kathy_*]

magnolia blossoms --
wind chimes
whisper

That's better, Cleo. I read your conversations, and you pretty much worked it out. Now you have a basic haiku. The small wind, (which makes the chimes whisper,) carries the scent of magnolia blossoms. So it is Spring. 'Whisper' suggests memories to me, too. That slightly haunting sound of windchimes adds to the feeling.

Each other person will get a different set of images and feelings.

But let me tell you that I am still learning haiku. It has been years, but still I'm not proficient. But with respect, I offer you what I know....

There is an immense amount of stuff to learn and assimilate in haiku. Look at fragment and phrase re your concerns about placement, but no, there is no 'place' for things like summary. You could summarise, (I think,) but it is not part of haiku.
You could develop the ku above, but if it does what you want, leave it. Or play with it, use lots of kigo, phrases etc and watch how it changes...

Cliches are everywhere in haiku. They are desirable, not the opposite. There are books of kigo...hang on, I'll see if I can find some on the web...

http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2006...e-in-haiku.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/kigo

As you can see by the first link, haijin (writers of haiku) around the world are trying to set up a world kigo base, because Japanese kigo are out of synch, or irrelevent in other countries.

In fact, I have to tell you, I do not understand most Japanese haiku. They are so imbedded in Japanese culture, with allusions of all kinds, that it goes right over my fluffy little head.

That's enough for now.

K

[Guest_Cathy_*]

Ohhhhh this is getting very confusing!!! For one thing, I don't see what magnolia blossoms have to do with wind chimes except that people usually hang them in the spring. I noticed that you mentioned 'euphoric' so maybe...

Wafting magnolias...
wind chimes
euphoric whispers

'Wafting' would suggest a scent being carried on the breeze without actually saying so and naturally the wind chimes would play on the breeze. Does that make any sense? I'm probably so far off it's pathetic!!! LOL

Lovely imagery none the less~

Cathy

[laryalee]

Hi Cleo,
Love your new pics! And the thumbnail idea is great!

I also love where you're going with this...
one small suggestion:

magnolia blossoms --
the whisper
of wind chimes

For me, this opens with a clear and beautiful image...
line 2 introduces a sound and a quick thought flashes
across my mind -- "the whisper of what?"
Then, in line 3, "aha!"

Now, along with the beauty of the blossoms and the sound of
the chimes, I feel a breeze ...and that breeze carries
the scent of the magnolias. I read the haiku again,
and it all comes together...a moment to savor!
And I have participated in the moment with you.


Lary

P.S. I notice that you said you don't have magnolias...
Haiku is generally about our own experiences, although
"desk ku" is becoming more common.
If you are recalling magnolias from another time and
place, this is fine...and still a "real" moment.

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Cathy, read from the start of the thread, and see if that helps. Read the others too, if you have time.

Hugs,

K

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Waa-oh, Lary's suggestion works! Cool!




Lori, here's a link to fragment and phrase:

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm#frag

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Kathy.

Thank you very much for all these words of wisdom - I will enjoy checking out the information. Yes, whispers is meant to mean the soft breezes so this is great! Now, I must readjust the mindet to learn that cliches are 'good' in haiku? It's great to have these workshopping threads to learn more. I thought haiku was 2 snapshots and a linking (what I refer to as the summary)? Yes, I think I could change this quite a bit with differnet kigos, that might be fun!

Thanks again!
~Cleo

magnolia blossoms --
wind chimes
whisper

That's better, Cleo. I read your conversations, and you pretty much worked it out. Now you have a basic haiku. The small wind, (which makes the chimes whisper,) carries the scent of magnolia blossoms. So it is Spring. 'Whisper' suggests memories to me, too. That slightly haunting sound of windchimes adds to the feeling.

Each other person will get a different set of images and feelings.

But let me tell you that I am still learning haiku. It has been years, but still I'm not proficient. But with respect, I offer you what I know....

There is an immense amount of stuff to learn and assimilate in haiku. Look at fragment and phrase re your concerns about placement, but no, there is no 'place' for things like summary. You could summarise, (I think,) but it is not part of haiku.
You could develop the ku above, but if it does what you want, leave it. Or play with it, use lots of kigo, phrases etc and watch how it changes...

Cliches are everywhere in haiku. They are desirable, not the opposite. There are books of kigo...hang on, I'll see if I can find some on the web...

http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2006...e-in-haiku.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/kigo

As you can see by the first link, haijin (writers of haiku) around the world are trying to set up a world kigo base, because Japanese kigo are out of synch, or irrelevent in other countries.

In fact, I have to tell you, I do not understand most Japanese haiku. They are so imbedded in Japanese culture, with allusions of all kinds, that it goes right over my fluffy little head.

That's enough for now.

K

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Cathy.

Yes, it is confusing ironing out all the various parameters. Yes, actually, that is the image I wanted - to associate the wind chimes with spring, so in that regard, I succeeded in my message to you. I had played a bit with 'wafts' but kept coming back to 'whispers', hoping to ping the same idea.

No, you are making perfect sense and I think one more tweak that Lary mentions will bring this together with your own thoughts too.

Thanks for stopping in and enjoying the imagery.
~Cleo

Ohhhhh this is getting very confusing!!! For one thing, I don't see what magnolia blossoms have to do with wind chimes except that people usually hang them in the spring. I noticed that you mentioned 'euphoric' so maybe...

Wafting magnolias...
wind chimes
euphoric whispers

'Wafting' would suggest a scent being carried on the breeze without actually saying so and naturally the wind chimes would play on the breeze. Does that make any sense? I'm probably so far off it's pathetic!!! LOL

Lovely imagery none the less~

Cathy

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Lary.

Thanks, yes, thumbnails are easier to load and manage for both reader and myself, LOL! Glad you enjoyed them!
That's IT - I had a feeling I had 'whisper' in the wrong place, so thank you for the suggestion and also the reaffirmation of the image you take from the poem. Sounds of chimes and that 'aha' - the breeze is two-fold: carrying the scent of the magnolia and carrying the tune of the chimes. So, it seems then if I get this right, that L2 is the 'tease, question' - the carrot that dangles to lead you to the 'aha' in L3? Is it always that way?

My friends Lindi (Aphrodite here) and Phyllis have magnolia trees and at a lunch at Phyllis' a few weeks back we got to enjoy them along with a lovely afternoon.

I've never heard of desk-ku. now you've got me asking what is that form too, Lary? So much to discover with these shorter forms - I admit, short doesn't mean quick to pen at all, LOL. But the journey is very rich!

Thanks and I'll revise now.

~Cleo

Hi Cleo,
Love your new pics! And the thumbnail idea is great!

I also love where you're going with this...
one small suggestion:

magnolia blossoms --
the whisper
of wind chimes

For me, this opens with a clear and beautiful image...
line 2 introduces a sound and a quick thought flashes
across my mind -- "the whisper of what?"
Then, in line 3, "aha!"

Now, along with the beauty of the blossoms and the sound of
the chimes, I feel a breeze ...and that breeze carries
the scent of the magnolias. I read the haiku again,
and it all comes together...a moment to savor!
And I have participated in the moment with you.


Lary

P.S. I notice that you said you don't have magnolias...
Haiku is generally about our own experiences, although
"desk ku" is becoming more common.
If you are recalling magnolias from another time and
place, this is fine...and still a "real" moment.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Waa-oh, Lary's suggestion works! Cool!

Lori, here's a link to fragment and phrase:

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm#frag

Thanks again Kathy - I will bookmark this URL and have a good read!

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Cleo, a famous haijin (one of Old Masters) said something like " If you want to write about willows, go to the willow." Lary will probably remember the exact person and quote.

So the idea is to record haiku on location. 'Desk haiku' are those written at a desk, ie NOT on location.

Try to forget everything you thought you knew about haiku. The stuff that's passed as haiku these days, ie the popular versions of haiku are actually very insulting to an ancient tradition of poetry. We Westerners really screwed it up.

Your haiku turned out really well! I am proud of you.

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Here ya are:

Matsuo Bashō the grand master of this form, emphasized that the poet should write directly from experience and strive to perceive the inner life of the subject or moment.

"Learn of the pine from the pine;
learn of the bamboo from the bamboo."

Because haiku often are written fresh from experience -- or soon thereafter -- and jotted down on the odd piece of paper or, better yet, in a pocket notebook kept on hand just for this purpose, they are easy to get into the habit of writing.

As a result of writing haiku, you will:

~be more alive to the present moment

~recapture the freshness and vividness of perceptions you had as a youth,

~deepen your appreciation of nature and your place within it, and

~realize the potential of each moment for profound realization.

Taken from here:

http://www.haikuhabit.com/haiku_habit%20tutorial.htm

[AMETHYST]

First, Lori - I wanted to say how amazing this thread has been. The present revision of this Haiku really gave me the "experience' as Lary describes, before I read her reply. I began reading and the whisper offered me the dual meaning...I felt the pause come L2, it comes natural and then when I got to the 3rd line, I smiled, as the it all unfolded like a memory for me; sort of became a memory to me through the imagery. I could see myself sitting outside on a Spring day, the soft breeze caressing my skin, the scents of magnolia blooms on the wings of the winds and a distant tinkling of wind chimes to soulfully lull my woes away. It actually creates a mindset, like meditation in some way.

Secondly, after reading the poem, I read through the thread, including many of the links and I think I am getting a better understanding of Haiku. However, I am still not confident with my own attempts. I think because, like Kathy mentions desku, that is what I could offer as I don't have many experiences that are built on such lovelness... So I would have to fake one: LOL ...

I wanted to say this is amazing, how the process works, and how it went from being a very beautiful picture to becoming an actual experience to read. I now see the difference. Truely unique to see it happen right infront of my eyes...


Hugs, Liz ...

THUMBS UP ON THIS ONE!

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Brilliant, Liz. You are a quick learner.

[AMETHYST]

Ah no ... you and Lary are brilliant teachers! :)

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Let's congratulate each other then. We are a TEAM! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

[Guest_Kathy_*]

Lori, take a look at this, taken from here:

http://www.worldhaikureview.org/1-3/guestspeaker_lyles.shtml

Please have a close look at another exceptional haiku:

a curtain billows
before the rain
scent of roses

Ferris Gilli
The Heron's Nest Award
Volume II, Number Eight
August 2000

Beautiful, isn't it? I feel the motion, sense the coming rain, smell the roses. If there were nothing more to the haiku than that, it would be a gift and a pleasure. The specific details create a strong sense of anticipation, too. Pleasant anticipation. "a curtain blows" means what it says . . . and much more. Christopher Herold's appreciative Heron's Nest Award essay presents a fine reading of it. You will find it here:

http://www.theheronsnest.com/haiku/0208w65...n_issue.c1.html

It is like yours, isn't it!

[AMETHYST]

Let's congratulate each other then. We are a TEAM! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Yes, we do make a great team ... don't we ... :) ...

Hugs, Liz

[laryalee]

This has been a wonderful thread!
And Liz, your description of how/what you
felt when reading Lori's haiku shows that
you understand perfectly -- it made my day!

I asked Lori about starting an exercise thread
at Karnak...I'll plan to do that tomorrow...
it'll be fun!

(Kathy, I'm so glad you're here!)

hugs,
Lary

[Guest_Kathy_*]

I'm glad you are, Lary. I couldn't handle this alone.