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Posted by: Nina Aug 15 05, 17:03

Turbulence (revised thanks James)

Wind changes direction:
temperate southern breezes
become icy northern gusts.

Dark storm clouds
cloak Sun’s rays;
sharp hailstones
pelt fertile ground.

Budding plants
bruise and tear
as tempest seeks destruction.

Turbulence recedes:
blown by strong currents,
unleashing violence elsewhere.

Sunlight triumphs,
warming chilled growth:
harmony restored.

On horizon clouds gather…


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Turbulence (original)

Wind changes direction:
temperate southern breezes
become icy northern gusts.

Dark storm clouds
cloak Sun’s rays;
sharp hailstones
pelt fertile ground.

Budding plants
bruise and tear
as tempest seeks destruction.

Turbulence recedes:
blown by strong currents
to unleash violence elsewhere.

Sunlight triumphs,
warming chilled growth:
harmony restored.

On horizon clouds gather…

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 16 05, 02:53

Hi Nina,

Budding plants
bruise and tear[;]
{as} tempest seeks destruction.

I would like to tighten this but can't think of a better way than you have:

Turbulence recedes:
blown by strong currents
{{to}} unleash violence elsewhere.

Just removing "to" does not work.

This is brill. And I think almost no suggestions reflects the precision which you’ve employed.

The late actor, David Niven, on a Parkinson BBC tv chat show in the 1970s talked about “Chinese Winds.” There is (yet another) ancient saying by the Chinese concerning gardens. I can’t quote it but it means that just when all is perfect, in harmony and wonderful in the garden, along come the winds to wreck it all. Of course, as with your poem, it is a metaphor for much in life.

The final line is especially brilliant.

Great simple title, great simple poem and, of course, with its prima facie simplicity comes great depth. Well done. One of your best I think - and that’s saying a lot.

J.

Posted by: Nina Aug 16 05, 03:11

Hi J

Budding plants
bruise and tear[;]
{as} tempest seeks destruction.

thanks, will revise that.

This is brill. And I think almost no suggestions reflects the precision which you’ve employed.

Gosh thanks so much  :grinning:

The late actor, David Niven, on a Parkinson BBC tv chat show in the 1970s talked about “Chinese Winds.” There is (yet another) ancient saying by the Chinese concerning gardens. I can’t quote it but it means that just when all is perfect, in harmony and wonderful in the garden, along come the winds to wreck it all. Of course, as with your poem, it is a metaphor for much in life.

Fascinating, thanks.  I have never heard of that saying before but I know importance of harmony and balance in nature and life comes across very strongly in all aspects of Chinese and Japanese philosophy and medicine.  

The final line is especially brilliant.

again, thanks

Great simple title, great simple poem and, of course, with its prima facie simplicity comes great depth. Well done. One of your best I think - and that’s saying a lot.
Oooer, I don't quite know what to say to that wonderful compliment other than thank you and really your words mean a great deal to me.

Thanks for this

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 16 05, 04:45

Nina,

Thank you. :)

J.

Posted by: Jox Aug 16 05, 04:49

Hi Nina,

I've just had another thought! (two in a day is my limit, so I can zomb again now). Anyway... I don't know if this is to your liking:

Turbulence recedes:
blown by strong currents,
unleashing violence elsewhere.

Just a thought. Now 24-hour zomb until I need to have another thought. Tata!

J.

Posted by: Cathy Aug 16 05, 15:25

Hey Nina,

Simple?  Yes, but your word choices give it its impact and
strength.  It emits a power that matches that of the storm
you are describing without flowery phrases and unnecessary
"fillers", just pure, raw power.  And therein lies its effectiveness
IMO.  

You know, this could also relate to a mentally disturbed person.
Describing the turmoil and struggle within himself as frustration
grips him.  The destruction he might cause around him until he
finally calms and the storm within recedes ... until another day.

Well done!
Cathy

Posted by: Nina Aug 16 05, 15:37

Hi J

Sorry, hadn't noticed you'd posted again.

I've just had another thought! (two in a day is my limit, so I can zomb again now). Anyway... I don't know if this is to your liking:

Turbulence recedes:
blown by strong currents,
unleashing violence elsewhere.
yes, that is to my liking, thanks.

now wakey! wakey!  stretch yourself and go for thought number three today.

Posted by: Nina Aug 16 05, 15:44

Hi Cathy

Simple?  Yes, but your word choices give it its impact and
strength.  It emits a power that matches that of the storm
you are describing without flowery phrases and unnecessary
"fillers", just pure, raw power.  And therein lies its effectiveness
IMO.
thank you, much appreciated.  Flowery phrases would have diluted it somewhat.

You know, this could also relate to a mentally disturbed person.
Describing the turmoil and struggle within himself as frustration
grips him.  The destruction he might cause around him until he
finally calms and the storm within recedes ... until another day.
The scenario you describe is actually pretty close to what I had in mind when I was writing this poem.  Well done Sherlock, very perceptive.  

Nina

Posted by: Cathy Aug 17 05, 08:32

Hi Nina,

Posted by: Nina Aug 17 05, 13:27

Hi Cathy

Wow!  How about that!






Nina

Posted by: Cybele Aug 18 05, 02:26

Hi Nina,

I like the way the storm strikes with such sudden fury, leaves all in disarray, clears and then gathers once more on the horizon. Sort of a vicious circle.  

Like Cathy I think this could also apply so aptly to the human condition.

I had only one thought Nina,

Budding plants
bruise and tear
as tempest seeks destruction.

The personification in the last line seems a little odd. I don't think the tempest deliberatly seeks destruction. It is the nature of the beast.

Perhaps

as tempest buffets or
with tempest onslaught ?

Good read. thank you Nina.  

Posted by: Nina Aug 18 05, 12:49

Hi Grace

I like the way the storm strikes with such sudden fury, leaves all in disarray, clears and then gathers once more on the horizon. Sort of a vicious circle.  


Thank you.  Yes it is definitely a cyclical occurrence, though the clouds gathering on the horizon aren't necessarily the same storm

Like Cathy I think this could also apply so aptly to the human condition
That was my intention and message of the poem.

Budding plants
bruise and tear
as tempest seeks destruction.

The personification in the last line seems a little odd. I don't think the tempest deliberatly seeks destruction. It is the nature of the beast.

I understand what you are saying but I do want to keep the word destruction.

Thanks so much for your comments and suggestion

Nina

Posted by: Psyche Aug 18 05, 14:45

Hi Nina !  :sun:

I admire the way you can express the power of Nature in a minimalist style. If I were to follow my own spontaneous way of writing, any crits of mine would add instead of substract words, but that's not coherent !

Yet I do get the feeling that some modern poets are scaling down the use of articles, conjunctions & preps rather too drastically    :upside:  Soon the English language will consist only of nouns & verbs, with the odd adjective thrown in !!    

James (and no offense meant, please !!), has attempted to tweak the few preps you've used !!  Please take my comments as just another opinion written on air, to be carried away in the turbulence...  :speechless:  I'm probably influenced by "ancients" of the middle 20th. Century or else it's this Latin verbosity....  :grinning:

Anyway, your descriptive poem of Nature's cycles has a powerful voice, very impressive indeed.

Hugs,
Sylvia  :butterfly:

Posted by: Nina Aug 18 05, 15:11

Hi Sylvia

I admire the way you can express the power of Nature in a minimalist style.
Thank you  :grinning:

Yet I do get the feeling that some modern poets are scaling down the use of articles, conjunctions & preps rather too drastically       Soon the English language will consist only of nouns & verbs, with the odd adjective thrown in !
In poetry I quite like the minimalist approach.  I'm quite concise in my writing generally and for me the beauty of poetry is being able to say what I want, trying to achieve maximum impact with minimum words.

James (and no offense meant, please !!, has attempted to tweak the few preps you've used !!  Please take my comments as just another opinion written on air, to be carried away in the turbulence...    I'm probably influenced by "ancients" of the middle 20th. Century or else it's this Latin verbosity....  

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's and I am open to all crits.  It is the best way to learn and improve as a poet.  

I should explain that I'm very ignorant of the "ancients" of the middle 20th century.  I hated poetry at school and paid no attention whatsoever in class, so there is a huge gap in my knowledge. However from the little I have read, I think I tend towards the modern rather than the romantics of the last century.

Anyway, your descriptive poem of Nature's cycles has a powerful voice, very impressive indeed.
Thank you, much appreciated and thanks also for your comments

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 15:40

Hi Nina, Sylvia

No offence taken whatsoever, Sylvia - we should all offer the best advice we feel we can and that inevitably means professional disagreements. I think that plurality of crits / views is very healthy and to the benefit of the poster of the poem.

Cheers, J.

Posted by: Psyche Aug 20 05, 10:37

Posted by: Psyche Aug 20 05, 11:04

Hi Nina !  :sun:

Yes, I also love to try out styles like the one you've posted. Once or twice I've been moderately successful....  :(     That's why I envy the poets who have such an ability.

Still, I do love British poetry in general and I'm often quite amazed that so many British people "hate" the great poets of the 20th. Century, mostly because these poets were imposed upon them at school. A crying shame, says I...  :ghostface:

I should explain that I'm very ignorant of the "ancients" of the middle 20th century.  I hated poetry at school and paid no attention whatsoever in class, so there is a huge gap in my knowledge. However from the little I have read, I think I tend towards the modern rather than the romantics of the last century.

In my country, for example, T.S. Eliot is enormously admired, either in translation or the original (English is spoken/studied a great deal here, so poetry is part of the courses).

I'm sure, but don't take it as an imposition, far from it, Nina, that you would enjoy reading Eliot's "The Love Song of J. Alfred Pruffock". Better still, to listen to it, recited by Sir Alec Guiness (at least, I have that version). The beauty of it, in my humble opinion, is that Eliot breaks a great deal of "rules" which I shan't go into now...  :speechless: ... he loves to repeat the word "and", as well as the use of repetition of words and phrases, perhaps constructed in a slightly different fashion along the way.

And to have a laugh, "The Hippopotamus"....  :grinning:

Well, I'm getting over-enthused with Eliot, that's being unfair to the dozens of 20th. Century British and American poets, whatever their styles !

Congrats again, Nina, I intend to try my hand again at polished works like yours.
Hugs,
Sylvia  :turtle:

Posted by: Nina Aug 20 05, 12:26

Hi Sylvia

thanks for popping back here to continue this interesting discussion.

Yes, I also love to try out styles like the one you've posted. Once or twice I've been moderately successful....       That's why I envy the poets who have such an ability.

I think minimalism is my natural style and I have learnt a lot more about how to craft a minimalist poem since joining MM.  It has been a steep but fascinating learning curve and everyone's advice and discussion has been most enlightening.

On the other hand, I don't think I could write the sort of style that you use and I think it great that you break all the rules to create a unique style of your own.  It is much better to lead the way than follow.

I'm sure, but don't take it as an imposition, far from it, Nina, that you would enjoy reading Eliot's "The Love Song of J. Alfred Pruffock". Better still, to listen to it, recited by Sir Alec Guiness (at least, I have that version). The beauty of it, in my humble opinion, is that Eliot breaks a great deal of "rules" which I shan't go into now...   ... he loves to repeat the word "and", as well as the use of repetition of words and phrases, perhaps constructed in a slightly different fashion along the way.

And to have a laugh, "The Hippopotamus"....  

I don't take in the least bit as an imposition.  We have a copy of Eliot's poems at work and I promise I will take a look at the works you suggest on Monday.  

Thanks again

Nina

Posted by: Psyche Aug 20 05, 13:09

Wow, Nina ! That'll be quick work ! Love to hear about your feelings concerning Eliot !

Good luck,
hugs,
Sylvia  :oops:  :upside:

Posted by: Nina Aug 20 05, 13:11

Hi Sylvia

Wow, Nina ! That'll be quick work ! Love to hear about your feelings concerning Eliot !

LOL, there are no flies on me.  Seriously though, if I don't do things straight away I forget completely.

Nina

Posted by: Psyche Aug 20 05, 13:43

Same here, Nina ! Shameful...  :ghostface:  

Have a good weekend,
Sylvia  :sun:

Posted by: Nina Aug 20 05, 15:01

Hi Sylvia

the sad facts of getting older and ye olde brain cells wearing out.

hope you have a good weekend as well.

Nina