Trois-par-Huit (Three-by-Eight) Octa-Tri, New form by Cleo Options

[JustDaniel]

Thank you, James.  

I assure you that nothing that you said upset me in any way.  Both your comments and silence elsewhere convinced me that my attempt at an extremely important subject that I teach almost daily to my clients did NOT communicate seriously at all in the vernacular in which I'd originally composed it.  Honestly, I was simply embarrassed by it ( not your comments or request! )... and that some seem to think that I was just trivializing Cleo's form right from the start!  Nothing could be further from reality, so I just wanted to remove something that I now see could be interpreted in that way. I'm truly sorry for that, because that could not be further from my intent.  I simply dismally failed in my first draft AND stirred things unintentionally. I do hope you see that if I thought "Three-by-Eight" were a trivial form, I certainly wouldn't have gone to the trouble of offering a more accurate title-suggestion for it... or given a partial description of the form with a piece written in its (original) form! I'm afraid that I again stumbled over my own stupid tongue, and believe me, it hurts!

Therefore I thought it best merely to eliminate the first try to at least assuage some inkling of the doubt.  I here offer another try.  I'm not sure that this accomplishes my goal either, but at least it's in plain standard American speech until the end.  I hope that "Suh" is understood as Americana "Sir" and that the variant of pro bono is also acceptible in the vernacular of the closing tercet.  "Gonna" among my clients is now a by-word, so it is essential if I'm going to accomplish this in Trois-par-Huit... which I may or may not be able to do.  And there aren't many rhyme choices for "Gonna"... so I'm just gonna try again.

So... please be assured that I always appreciate your input, especially when you're right to the point.  And know that your words on this were HELPful... not HURTful.  Thanks IMMENSELY.

You’re Gonna

Most folks think
choice one’s Do  ~ choice two’s Wink
Wink fogs eyes to plain facts; Do ’s a Must

Bubble-blowing dreams of denial bloom… then bust
unmasking horrific harm ‘neath avoidance-dust

You’ll find “…Or Not”  won’t work pro bona
“Just Do it!”  choice warns… “Suh…
You’re Gonna!”

© Daniel J Ricketts 08 Dec 2004

P.S. to Cleo:

Honestly, I do like the original tercet, tercet, couplet more.  I think it is consistent with introducing a new rhyme in the prior stanza throughout that way. It also give a smidgen of the flavor of the summary couplet of a sonnet.

Of course I bow to your choice, as you see in my offering here...  but I'd really be interested in knowing why you made the change in the division. It almost looks to me in the present format that line three's rhyme could be viewed as a mistake.  I'll be very interested in discovering what went into your decision... and may I say that I'd love to see you reverse it!

But I ain't arguin'!  I love the form, whatever you do with it, and I'd love to be able to play with it (in the serious sense of that word, of course) right along with you.

P.P.S.  OOPS!!!  I see that I misunderstood your "as well" to mean that that was the change you made as well... namely to 3 2 3, but I see (from seeing now the change in the text ABOVE it, that you've made it optional!  I fully agree with that. I'd totally missed the earlier posts by Liz and James, suggesting the option, since I'd returned to the tile after there was a second page, and I continued from there without looking back, except to your initial post.  

Reading is a gigantic hurdle for me, Lori.  Please forgive my slowness! I'm really trying... and I know that it sometimes makes me trying to folks!  I don't even have to try for that to happen, it seems.

Respectfully always.  You KNOW that I think you're a writing genius!

Hugs and a sigh, Daniel  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Daniel,

Thank you very much for returning with your work - though a translation would have been fine, rather than a complete re-write.

Thanks also for the explanations; much appreciated.

My silence, by the way, as far as it said anything, only said "I don't understand." Nothing more.

And, last but not least (as they say) - thank you very much for your kind comments; much appreciated.

I have to say that I'm a little sad that you should be embarrassed. I really think there is nothing wrong with experimentation - some of my work is a long way from any convention; you are far closer, with your exploration for forms and so on. I strongly feel (and I hope and believe that all on MM would agree on this, at least) that experimentation and pushing boundaries in art - including literature - is vital if we are to make new contributions. You and I push those boundaries very differently - but we are both pushing and that is nothing at all to be embarrassed about; quite the contrary. Indeed, by inventing new forms, Lori is pushing, too.

Just for the record - I am in almost complete ignorance about the names for most poetry forms (perhaps excluding Swampy Q. - because he's a pal of mine). So I have not been following the debate on the naming of forms. I left that to those people - Lori, yourself and others - who know about these things and have an opinion to express.

Also, to me you have not failed - neither dismally, nor in any other way - at anything of which I'm aware. The only thing I might suggest is not to beat yourself up - you don't deserve it!

I can see that you would probably prefer not to display your original poem, along with the "translated" version - but, if you should change your mind, it would be interesting to see them together. Just because something is in a language one can't understand does not make it invalid. (I think somewhere on MM I posted some Welsh verse - I simply provided an English translation along-side). The thing is, even if one cannot understand the words, there usually is a discernable sound pattern and - as we know - poetry is about many things but its sound is one of the more important ones.

Anyway, to sum-up; I'm very pleased you re-posted; I'm very pleased I didn't upset you (and thank you for your comments) and I would also be pleased if you realised that, in posting that verse, you did nothing wrong. An explanation / translation was its only deficiency.

Best wishes, James.

[JustDaniel]

Thank you for your much needed, encouraging words, my friend. I'd meant in my explanation for the removal that the silence elsewhere - not from you - convince me that I was totally out in left field in thinking that what I was saying was clear.  It certainly was clear to me, but that is ONLY because the CONCEPT is in MY mind.  The ART comes in translating that into some kind of communicable something-or-other.  My first attempt did not do that, and we'll see if the second one comes any closer.  Please feel free to visit it again in the "Complex Critique" forum... where I seldom have ventured of late, but returned, at least to wrestle with this one... and I fully realize that I may have to wrest it into another form.

Whatever the case, rest assured that I will return with something here, probably an attempt at something more soothing, as this form certainly offers that kind of opportunity!

deLighting in your understanding words, Daniel  :sun:

[Cleo_Serapis]

Christmas Tree

Lights aglow;
silver tinsel to throw
serenading ornamental shades

of a satin emerald and ruby parade
mingling with silhouettes of aged crystal cascade
Snowmen, Pixies and Angels to see

Atop the wise men three…
Christmas Tree

© 2004 Lorraine M Kanter

[AMETHYST]

As Truth Dies

When justice
leads others to entice
the lesser creed to proclaim their goals

and praise the passing of such gentle and kind souls
acclaiming all the heartless are bearer's of woes
I fear that Lady Liberty cries

Her torch blown out by sighs
as Truth dies

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori - commented on your fine piece in the crit thread. Well done.

Hi Liz... This had me much interested, Must have read it twenty times...

I'm sure it is a very accurate 3x8 but it flows well and the words have absolutly fascinated me.

This isn't a crit forum so but I don't have a lit crit point to make - it's fine.

I was interested in the certainty with which you wrote this. I use poetry to praise, to criticise, to search for human values (heck that sounds terribly pompous, sorry!) in other words, I have few certainties - then mostly negative ones (I don't accept this and that etc).

You use poetry - here at least - to proclaim your certainty with a confidence in something I simply don't have. This poem has bold statements, the type of which I wouldn't dare make. It is a personal credo - or, at least, a window on one - of powerful magnitude. It uses rueful sadness to support one stance and knock another down. It really is very skilful, indeed.

I find it fascinating how you link creed and liberty; the religious and the political - we both do that, from opposite perspectives.

I take one strongly political point - that liberty allows attacks upon liberty. How do democracies democratically protect democracy? Can they?

I was unsure if "lesser creeds" - we could debate that one! referred to Islam or Atheism - or both (it was plural). (I am assuming this from a Christian perspective because, if my mind serves me right (!!!) I think I have see you write as a Christian previously - sorry if I'm wrong.

This is a really-well worked argument. If I have understood it (and I am uncertain about that) then I deeply disagree with it. That supports the excellence of the poetry - you have brilliantly encapsulated so much in such a short time - in form, too!

I really enjoyed reading this, Liz and (again, if I am right) it is absolutely brilliant to see someone address some of the issues which I try to - from a very different perspective. In that sense, at least, I hope you don't mind if I say I find us soul-mates. Such issues deserve debating and poetry is an excellent medium.

Thanks you for this - really very good indeed.

James.

[Aggiel]

Darkness Creeps

Darkness slinks
horizon’s forty winks
eager to devour the long day.

A single star adorns western sky, seeming gay
to greet the nocturnal moon. She is on her way
to illuminate the dimming deep.

Clouds cloak her glowing peeps,
Darkness creeps

[AMETHYST]

Hi Lori - commented on your fine piece in the crit thread. Well done.

Hi Liz... This had me much interested, Must have read it twenty times...

I'm sure it is a very accurate 3x8 but it flows well and the words have absolutly fascinated me.

This isn't a crit forum so but I don't have a lit crit point to make - it's fine.

I was interested in the certainty with which you wrote this. I use poetry to praise, to criticise, to search for human values (heck that sounds terribly pompous, sorry!) in other words, I have few certainties - then mostly negative ones (I don't accept this and that etc).

You use poetry - here at least - to proclaim your certainty with a confidence in something I simply don't have. This poem has bold statements, the type of which I wouldn't dare make. It is a personal credo - or, at least, a window on one - of powerful magnitude. It uses rueful sadness to support one stance and knock another down. It really is very skilful, indeed.

I find it fascinating how you link creed and liberty; the religious and the political - we both do that, from opposite perspectives.

I take one strongly political point - that liberty allows attacks upon liberty. How do democracies democratically protect democracy? Can they?

I was unsure if "lesser creeds" - we could debate that one! referred to Islam or Atheism - or both (it was plural). (I am assuming this from a Christian perspective because, if my mind serves me right (!!!) I think I have see you write as a Christian previously - sorry if I'm wrong.

This is a really-well worked argument. If I have understood it (and I am uncertain about that) then I deeply disagree with it. That supports the excellence of the poetry - you have brilliantly encapsulated so much in such a short time - in form, too!

I really enjoyed reading this, Liz and (again, if I am right) it is absolutely brilliant to see someone address some of the issues which I try to - from a very different perspective. In that sense, at least, I hope you don't mind if I say I find us soul-mates. Such issues deserve debating and poetry is an excellent medium.

Thanks you for this - really very good indeed.

James.

Hi James,

I apologize for the delay in reading your response and getting my reply posted. I've been so busy with Christmas running around! Thank you for the amazing compliment on my convictions and the way I write. The poem at hand, didn't really have a religious tilt, or even a political tilt... actually it wasnt about Iran, war, or even the 911 incident at all. Lately, I've been noticing society in general--good people get over looked, and underminded, while those that do wrong or live in such a way that the create heartache for others (leaving their pieces for others to pick up) seem to get rewarded these days. However, the unfortunate thing is I had not seen the strong underlying meanings of religious/political and social intent... I agree that poetry is a magnificent release for our views and expressions of todays issues that aren't often discussed in full.

I'm at work right now and will be back again...would appreciate if you point me in the direction of some of your work that expresses these issues too!

Hugs, Liz...

Happy Holidays!

As Truth Dies

When justice
leads others to entice
the lesser creed to proclaim their goals

and praise the passing of such gentle and kind souls
acclaiming all the heartless are bearer's of woes
I fear that Lady Liberty cries

Her torch blown out by sighs
as Truth dies

[AMETHYST]

God is Free


Each Christmas,
we buy, spend, owe...alas
the meaning of this magical day

vanishes beneath a years worth of bills to pay.
Some families are too distant they never stay
together. Let's discover the glee

of giving gracefully,
God is free.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Tee hee! How tue Liz!

I'd like to think of times (as Butch has written in his poems) when the "commercialism" didn't exst. Families and friends coming together to share in the joy of their faith. It's always been special for me to receive handmade/homemade gifts, delight in a potluck buffet, where each visitor brings a food item to the table and we all mingle and jingle :) together and celebrate!

Happy Holidays!
Lori :pharoah2

[AMETHYST]

Tee hee! How tue Liz!

I'd like to think of times (as Butch has written in his poems) when the "commercialism" didn't exst. Families and friends coming together to share in the joy of their faith. It's always been special for me to receive handmade/homemade gifts, delight in a potluck buffet, where each visitor brings a food item to the table and we all mingle and jingle :) together and celebrate!

Happy Holidays!
Lori :pharoah2

Lauren’s Eyes

I was blind,
So lost among unkind
and hopeless happenings till you came

I spent the years searching for someone I could blame,
“it wasn’t I, not me-I know” is what I’d claim…

Too often, I turned from truth, seeking lies
Till I saw, by surprise;
Lauren’s eyes.

[Cleo_Serapis]

How beautiful Liz!

Me eyes is a-waterin here!

Bravo!
Lori :pharoah2

[AMETHYST]

A Kind Hand

Scotch tape holds
the make-shift window folds
on the cardboard box that he calls home.

With summer slumbering, he spends the winter alone,
he's never lonely; within a world of his own.

Inside resides a fairy tale land
where kings help the poor man,
a kind hand.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Working on the Hepta Crown Challenge, I've chosen the topic below.

Part I of Public Transportation in America (1830's)

Omnibus

Unpadded,
these vehicles added
a means to travel cobblestone streets.

A coach for twelve, though not comfy, did have bench seats;
one in twenty five sought out these daily repeats

making this mode, not worth all the fuss.
instead, a public cuss...
Omnibus

© Lorraine M Kanter 27 Aug 2005

[Cleo_Serapis]

Working on the Hepta Crown Challenge, I've chosen the topic below.

Part II of Public Transportation in America (1850's)

The Horsecar

Thoroughfares
welcomed these cheaper fares
with capacity more than double

twice the speed on friction-less railed pavement stubble
forcing Omnibus to secondary trouble

with its inside room, better by far
and ridership on par…
The Horsecar


© Lorraine M Kanter 27 Aug 2005

[Cleo_Serapis]

A Kind Hand

Scotch tape holds
the make-shift window folds
on the cardboard box that he calls home.

With summer slumbering, he spends the winter alone,
he's never lonely; within a world of his own.

Inside resides a fairy tale land
where kings help the poor man,
a kind hand.

Hi Liz!

I didn't realize you were providing links to your work in your showcase until I moused over your titles and it brought me here.

I simply love this poem!  :lovie:

This form is so restrictive yet you've still managed to put the right elements of a homeless person's home nad make it a poignant piece.  :claps:

Well done!
~Cleo  :cloud9:

[AMETHYST]

Thanks Lori,

Sorry I hadn't noticed this reply. I want to make some adjustments to the last one, instead of 'A kind hand' I think, with kind hand. would be more powerful.

I love this form...it is one of my most favorites!



Homeward Bound

What keeps me
here is security
I'm so unsure where I want to be

The sacrifice of bills now paid has been too high,
my fam'ly, friends and familiar ways-long gone by

so if one day I am not around
just know that I'll be found
homeward bound.



This one will need a little work in time to come, just wanted to get something going and bump up this thread!

[AMETHYST]

A Blank Slate

Starting out
a new; no ounce of doubt
to shadow these silent silhouettes

of yesterday. They dance about in pirouettes
across my mind, reminding me of those regrets

I've left behind; I'll not contemplate
slow steps to recreate
a blank slate.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks Lori,

Sorry I hadn't noticed this reply. I want to make some adjustments to the last one, instead of 'A kind hand' I think, with kind hand. would be more powerful.

I love this form...it is one of my most favorites!



Homeward Bound

What keeps me
here is security
I'm so unsure where I want to be

The sacrifice of bills now paid has been too high,
my fam'ly, friends and familiar ways-long gone by

so if one day I am not around
just know that I'll be found
homeward bound.



This one will need a little work in time to come, just wanted to get something going and bump up this thread!

Hi Liz.

What a good feeling piece! Tis but one teensy issue and that is in the rhyme scheme: this form requires the rhyming pattern of AAB BBC CC.

In your piece, you've followed an AAA BB CCC scheme.

So, we'll a slight tweak to the last word in L3.

I'm so unsure where I want to be

We need a rhyme for 'high' there.

I'm unsure of things, I wonder why....

Well - just a start for you...

Enjoyed this poem and the sentiments behind it.  :cloud9:

~Cleo  :sun:

[Cleo_Serapis]

A Blank Slate

Starting out
a new; no ounce of doubt
to shadow these silent silhouettes

of yesterday. They dance about in pirouettes
across my mind, reminding me of those regrets

I've left behind; I'll not contemplate
slow steps to recreate
a blank slate.

A PUUUURRFFFECT Piece Liz!  :pharoah2

Well done - and I like a blank slate - always makes me feel I can conquer anything....

HUGS
~Cleo  :odie: