Short Story Exercise 5, Come visit here and comment! Options

[Guest_Toumai_*]

I'll let you know if it was scary once I dare come out from hiding, Charon. Thanks.
Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Wow! Butch... it's in the bag!

I enjoyed that, Butch - good writing. However, is it not again "telling" as opposed to "showing"? It is a genuine question - I'm still not sure I'm at all comfortable with that phrase. In fact, I'm not.

What you have written is fine. But if a whole novel were like that - all description - I think we'd yearn for spoken-interchange to move the plot and characterisation on. ?

Cheers, James.

[Cleo_Serapis]

In my own example:
As father and daughter walked past the old man, they put some change in his cup., I went back and made a modification this morning as follows:

Boisterously, father and daughter crossed the cobblestones hand in hand, Hildi skipping to a stop at the old man’s corner. “One clunk, two clunks, three clucks.” Hildi affirmed as the tin cup jingled to life.

A tear streamed down the old man’s face as he bent over the chalice of hope. Inching outward as he swallowed, he rubbed the sides of his frozen throat, asserting his vocal cords but not until the Burroughs had passed on. “Tha…, Than…, Thank you my children!” He finally dispensed.

Is this more SHOWING than telling?

Cheers!
~Cleo  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori et al,

I think there is such a thing as over-embellishment. If writing is too rich it drains one. I prefer character development and, wherever possible, action, to be advanced by dialogue rather than continued ultra-rich description.

I think my dislike of too much decorative poetry and description is why I'm no fan of Victorian novels (in general) nor of the famous romantic poets of two hundred years ago. But, of course, that is just a personal thing.

Regards, James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Hi, Lori

Your first example was already showing. You were showing that the father and his daughter were compassionate people. If you'd written that they were compassionate, you would have told us.

I'm 100% with James on the description aspect. You need just enough description to keep the reader informed on what he couldn't otherwise know. Description that doesn't aid the story is a waste of words and impedes the reader's enjoyment.

Readers invest a fair bit of imagination in a story and you can trust them to join the dots for themselves.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

I tend to get bogged down in details..

Perhaps the second para is not required then?

I think this exercise is something that I personally am going to need alot of help with, !

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

I suppose I should read the story first before I offer any suggestions, but out of context your original line was fine. Everything depends on what you want to convey with the scene.

I'll take a look at your story later on and if I can help I'll give you my two cents worth.

Perry  

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Lori,

My approach is to say the least I can to advance the character and the plot. To pare-down. That does not mean the writing is necessarily sparse... because it may take quite a lot to do those two things. However, too much description (or too many names) tend to confuse this poor reader.

Write what you will but on editing try to ask (of each sentence - each word, indeed) what does this contribute to our understanding? As Perry says, the readers can join the dots. However, I would add that too much writing means they can't see which dots to join.

All the best, James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

I've read through your story and concluded that the passage in question serves two purposes. One is to underscore a connection (established in the second and third paragraphs) between the old man and Hildi; the other is to show that she is a generous girl. The latter purpose is the main one. On that basis, I would scrub your revision and revert to the previous prose, but modified as follows:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused to drop some change into his cup. "Merry Christmas."

The old man looked up and returned her greeting. "Merry Christmas, my angel, and thank you once again."

That's sufficient for the purpose. We're showing that she's generous and he admires her, and that's all we need to know about their relationship at this point in the story. There's nothing to be gained in knowing what the cup is made of or the sound the coins make when they drop in -- the reader can make this connection without difficulty. That's not to say you shouldn't use sound (or smell or touch) if it serves a dramatic purpose -- it's just not necessary if it's simply an embellishment.

I hope that helps.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thanks so very much James and Perry!

I am new to writing short stories (and poetry only since late 2002) so I really do wish to learn the tips along the way to making stories memorable and just the right message/length/theme/plot etc....

I will make that revision next time in the thread....

Cheers!
Cleo  :pharoah:

[Guest_Toumai_*]

Hi everyone,

I think I agree with Perry that showing her dropping coins in the cup is indeed showing. How much to show is the tricky bit.

Most new writers 'overwrite'. I know I'm still learning to pare it down - as James puts it - and use the minimum information possible to allow the READER to make the picture. So the reader may end up with a different image that that in the writer's head, but so long as it fits the plot that is fine - maybe better, because it then becomes THEIR story to some extent.

I like action stories, but other people like sagas. I'm not a big fan of 'old' stories because they do tend to get bogged down in florid detailed descriptions (and I think I'll wait until I'm shipwrecked on a desert island to tackle Proust). I tried reading Annie Proulx recently and found  her style too contrived and detailed for my liking - but I was reading her as a writer; very critically. Five years ago I would have allowed her to immerse me in her clever phrasing.

Steven King says he always assumes he'll cut any story by 10 or 20% as he revises it ("On Writing" - a useful read even if you don't like his stories).

Sorry, am I wandering too far off-topic with this, Lori?
Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi all,

Actually, that reminds me that, since I have been learning poetry I have used far more sparse language (in general) than I would before. (Everyone would be grateful if I carried than on to my chats, too). So crits on MM poetry have actually helped me a great deal with trying not to overwrite prose. Prose, of course, cannot be as minimalist as poetry but trying to "have a go" at poetry and being critted is an invaluable lesson for this prose writer, anyway.

James.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Lori

Fran said "I think I agree with Perry that showing her dropping coins in the cup is indeed showing. How much to show is the tricky bit." Her point is a good one, because it's key to the 'show, don't tell' approach.

For example, if you wanted to convey the image of an unsuccessful beggar, you could write:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused to give him some change. The coins clattered before settling in the bottom of the cup. "Merry Christmas."

On the other hand, a successful beggar could be shown this way:

As the pair walked past the old man, Hildi paused long enough to stoop and carefully add some coins to the collection in the cup. "Merry Christmas."

On yet another hand (I have three hands), if the success or otherwise of the beggar's efforts are irrelevant to the story, then it's not necessary to draw attention to it.

Perry

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Overwriting is an obvious giveaway of an amateur writer and it invariably shows in the first few paragraphs. I think it's even more important not to overwrite short stories, as this form is meant to be concise. Not as concise as poetry, of course, but certainly more so than novels.

Perry

[Charon]

Ah, I like the conversation regarding King and his works.  I have every book, first edition that King ever produced.  However, one problem I have with this great writer, is that he writes wonderful novels, and then rushes to a finish.  His endings are horrid.

Does anyone else agree?  

Tommyknockers is a perfect example, what is that ending all about.  

I would guess the best example of telling would be a fairy tale, yes?

Very little development occurs, hardly any descriptions - can anyone tell me what the town looks like in Cinderella or even the castle?

Bang you are in the story and bang you are out.

Charon

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Hi, Charon

Cinderella is a good example of telling a tale simply and economically. As with most fairy tales, it's primarily a 'tell, not show' type of story and is often read aloud.

In the original written version by Perrault, the wicked sisters end up remorseful and being forgiven by Cinderella, so that constitutes some kind of development, albeit simple.

The Grimms' version is interesting in that the sisters cut off their heels and toes to fit their feet into the shoe, thus 'showing' their vanity.

Perry

[Cleo_Serapis]

Let's try another:

How would continue to write this:

Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke.....

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

It's a lovely phrase, Lori, but what is it you want to say? Or what's the problem you're trying to solve?

Perry

[Guest_Cailean_*]

Reading through here again ... Charon has it pegged that often the most concise story with impact is a fairy story. Writing for children is extraordinarily difficult - they ask questions and they don't "assume" as much as adults do. They are "tabula rasa" and can get their wonderful little minds in the metaphorical jam jar. Therefore, fairy tales have to be tight and have maximum impact.

With what Perrorist and Toumai said, I agree - overwriting is bad. I think, it's best to "pare down" as Perrorist suggested and just look at every sentence, ask yourself brutally "Do I really need this sentence? What does it do for the story? Does it add to the story, and what does it add?" If you can't find answers to these questions, axe the sentence.

Remember, less detail - more impact, at the possible cost of less comprehension :)

Cailean.

[Cleo_Serapis]

It's a lovely phrase, Lori, but what is it you want to say? Or what's the problem you're trying to solve?

Perry

Hi Perry!

It's just an exercise for us....

Inside the realm of fantasy, her mirrored image spoke.....

How would you continue this thought?

Lori