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> Copyright and Publishing Concerns, at Mosaic Musings
Cleo_Serapis
post Nov 1 03, 09:56
Post #1


Mosaic Master
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From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Hi all!

We've been discussing both Copyright and Publishing Rights of Internet boards recently and I wanted to let everyone know that Peter aka Imhotep will be meeting with an Intellectual Property/Copyright Attorney this coming Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, on our behalf. This is exciting!

While a member at other boards, these topics rarely ever surfaced in my case. All three boards were 'Public' and it was assumed that anything we post is copyright protected.

For a thorough definition on 'What is a Copyright?' and 'Copyright on the Internet' PLEASE visit this link: http://whatiscopyright.org/

The Mentors and I have been preparing a list of questions, some basic and some more advanced for discussion. Here are some of the items:

1. If a work is posted on the internet, in any forum at all, does it still retain the author's right to copyright. or is it regarded as free share.

2.  By posting at MM, do I, the poet, grant MM my First Publication rights?  Or, is First Publication Rights a negotiable concept, via each publisher's opinion?

3. When a poem is posted on a critique site, is it by copyright standings, workshopped and therefore not considered published? Or does there need to be a delete period of that said thread in order to hold full copyright and for it to be considered as "not published?"

4. Will posting in a critique forum (or otherwise) at MM, immediately render a work 'unpublishable' by certain publishers?

5. Does the distinction between 'public' forum and 'private' forum postings make a difference in the eyes of a publisher? Are they BOTH held to the same standard view of 'published' by virtue of the posting on the Web itself?

We will update everyone after the meeting next week. This may well determine the outcome of going 'Private' or adding 'private forums' to MM.

Regards!
Mosaic Musings Staff


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"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

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Cleo_Serapis
post Nov 8 03, 09:38
Post #2


Mosaic Master
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Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



Here are some preliminary responses to a few of our questions:

Just to clarify: We are consulting attorneys primarily to protect ourselves and the site for any liabilities that may come down the road. In doing so, we are happy to ask them generic questions on copyright, author rights and publication, but this should not be construed that we are representing individuals on site.

With regard to Publication and First Rights:

By closing your work with the following;
"All rights reserved by (insert your name) as an unpublished work"
this will help to prevent posted works from being interpreted as being published works.

Additionally, when critiquing works, when possible, only copy excerpts of the work, rather than the entire work. This is due to a potential "perception" complication of re-producing the work itself.

Pending further review, the attorneys do NOT believe a status of a forum (private or public) makes any difference as to whether or not a work is considered published. Basically, U.S. case law regarding the 1976 revision of the copyright act defines "publication" as distributing or copying (phono records) of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, with NO explicit or implicit restriction with respect to disclosure of the content. Therefore, as long as the purpose is NOT primarily intended to be further distribution of the work without restriction, it should NOT be considered published. Since we not selling it (MM) or intending to sell any works, and your posting intent is not reproduction, it should not be considered "a published work".

Copyright:

By posting a your work here at MM, the only protection under copyright the author gives up, is permission for MM to 'display' and 'archive' the work. All other rights are retained by the author. To help preserve your rights, insure new works contain the standard copyright line and/or the unpublished disclaimer as above when posted.

It does not matter if your work is posted under a psuedonym, it is still copyright protected by the author of such works.

Unfortunately, we will be unable to answer specific quirks related to non-U.S. copyright law.

We know this is not yet complete, but it's a start. We will be meeting with the attorneys again to get into more details and review the COC and other documents pertaining to the site.

Hope this helps!

Your comments are appreciated!
Lori (Cleo)  Pharoah.gif  & Peter (Imhotep)  tut.gif


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Guest_Dove_*
post Nov 8 03, 16:59
Post #3





Guest






would we be able to just add the line

"all rights reserved (insert your name here) as an unpublished work"

in our signature? or would it have to be a line directly under the piece?
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Nov 8 03, 17:08
Post #4


Mosaic Master
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Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



QUOTE (Dove @ Nov. 08 2003, 16:59)
would we be able to just add the line

"all rights reserved (insert your name here) as an unpublished work"

in our signature? or would it have to be a line directly under the piece?

Hi Jessica. Snowflake.gif

I'm not certain, but I would gather that you should put it within the body of your work, and not in the signature.

Thanks for asking! I'll clarify later.

~Cleo  :pharoah:


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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Imhotep
post Nov 11 03, 09:56
Post #5


Invisible Hand
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Posts: 304
Joined: 4-August 03
From: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
Member No.: 14
Real Name: Palpatine
Writer of: Newbie to Writing
Referred By:Lori



Greetings,

I asked the question as to whether the notice should be placed on each message and it was explained to me that copyright and associated restriction notices shouldn't be part of your signature, but rather should be posted at the bottom of the initial post of the work, and any re-posting of the work in total after revisions and changes.  If you make it part of your signature then it'll be in every post you make, regardless of what that specific post is discussing, and it is possible to be overly broad in claimed protections.

For example, a company used to automatically add a "This communication is protected and confidential (blah blah blah)" for every email that went through their servers figuring this would protect their work and secrets, regardless of the actual content of that email.  Jokes, emails home with shopping lists, didn't matter what they were talking about, the notice was automatically added to any email.  When they later attempted to sue another company for infringement of trade secrets claiming that all their communications were protected, the court ruled that by claiming everything was protected,  regardless of the actual content, they were overly broad in their assertions  and lost all of their protections, even the ones associated with the real product, and by proxy the case.

Take care,
I


·······IPB·······

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more details, click here!
 
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Cleo_Serapis
post Mar 1 04, 18:07
Post #6


Mosaic Master
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Group: Administrator
Posts: 18,891
Joined: 1-August 03
From: Massachusetts
Member No.: 2
Real Name: Lori Kanter
Writer of: Poetry & Prose
Referred By:Imhotep



  1. By posting at MM, do I, the writer (of poetry, Prose or Short stories, and Chapters), grant MM my First Publication rights?  

    The question of whether a posting on a private online forum constitutes first publication is an open one.   According to the U.S. Copyright Act, “[p]ublication is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display constitutes publication. A public performance or display of a work does not of itself constitute publication.”

    Generally, publication occurs on the date on which copies of the work are first made available to the public.  The phrase “to the public” has been interpreted as distribution to persons under no explicit or implicit restrictions.   Publication has been determined to take place when the purpose of showing the work is for further distribution.  

    In light of the uncertainties in the law regarding publication in the context of posting works online, no guarantees to our members can be made.  We can only try to take the necessary precautions to protect our members' works from being considered published.  

    The following precautions have been taken:
    (1) Subscription - There is no automatic subscription to Mosaic Musings.  We require that prospective members apply for a membership.  At the very least, when a user applies for a membership, we obtain their email and send them a password to login;

    (2) Terms of Use - Prospective members are required to accept terms of use before they are able to sign up for a membership to Mosaic Musings.  In addition, each forum has a Terms of Use (forum participation rules).  The terms include restrictions on copying any of the poetry posted, and showing the poetry to non-members.  In addition, the restrictions require limitations on commenting on a member’s poetry, when the comment includes copied text from the poetry.  For instance, the commenter should not copy the poetry in its entirety in the comment;

    (3) Enforcement - The terms of use will be enforced.  For example, the Mosaic Musings mentors will prevent other users from copying another’s poetry in a comment.   If the mentor is aware of a violation, she or he should redact the copied poetry;

    (4) Members are encouraged to post poetry in an incomplete form, as opposed to the final work;

    (5) Disclaimer - A short non-distribution disclaimer after each post or at least in the heading and footer of each forum or the forums, in which we want to be subject to these restrictions applies.  For example, the disclaimer states, “This is a private forum.  Any copying of a posting in this forum is strictly prohibited”.

    (6) Enable Members to Have control over their Posts – It is important that the member maintain control over the distribution of their work.  The Terms of Use and policies are drafted to reflect this.  In addition, the forum allows the member to modify or remove their post(s).
  2. Or, is First Publication Rights a negotiable concept, via each publisher's opinion?

    As discussed, there is no consensus as to the legalities of this.  Often, a publisher requires an author to sign a statement certifying that the work has not been published.  If the publisher takes the view that a posting on the Mosaic Musings site constitutes publication, it doesn't matter what the legalities are.
  3. If a work is posted on the internet, in any forum at all, does it still retain the author's right to copyright, or is it regarded as free share?

    Copyright vests in the author of the work unless the author transfers the rights in writing.   The Internet does not change the scope of an author’s copyrights.  As discussed in more detail below, by posting to an Internet forum, at best, a forum owner obtains an implied license to the work.  The copyright owner, however, still has all of its exclusive rights to the work.  The exclusive rights to a literary work are as follows: (1) right of reproduction, (2) right to prepare derivative works, (3) right to distribute, (4) right to perform, and (5) right to display.  The copyright owner not only has the above rights, but also has the sole authority to authorize the use of any of these rights. The copyright owner has the option to keep all of these rights, assign some or all of these rights to another party (transfer ownership in writing), or license some or all of these rights to another party.  Posting the work does not destroy these rights.

    Fair Use.
    Fair use allows limited uses of another's work without approval.  Uses that advance public interests such as criticism, education or scholarship may be within the scope of fair use -- particularly if little of another's work is copied.   Thus, if you post to a public forum, there may be limited use of your work under the fair use doctrine.

    Private forums should have fewer "fair use" problems. Permission to use others' posts should be limited mostly by what they agreed to when joining, not by copyright law.

    Licenses Implied in Fact.
    While fair use does not require approval, other uses of the work may be approved by implication.  For example, when a work is posted to a public forum, both forwarding and archiving seem to be impliedly allowed.  It is reasonable to assume that such liberties are okay if not explicitly forbidden.

    In a public forum where there is no agreement to the contrary, an author cannot revoke implied permission once granted.  Courts are, at best, reluctant to allow someone to impose a difficult burden on others.  For example, if the author requests that the forum remove all of the author’s posts from the archive, email distributions, etc., a court may find this burdensome on the forum.  

    Assignment Clause in the Terms of Use for the Forum.
    If the forum user is required to accept a terms of use, and the terms of use requires the user to assign all works posted on the forum to the forum owner, the forum owner may have the rights to any works posted on the forum.  
  4. If a work is posted under a Screen or Pen Name, does the author still maintain a copyright.

    An author has the right to remain anonymous or use a pen name.  This does not affect the author’s copyright, although in some limited circumstances, it may effect the duration of the copyright.
  5. If a work is posted in MM's forums, and is subsequently plagiarized, will MM be responsible for any damages, moral, legal or otherwise arising from such infringement?

    If the infringing work was copied and posted on Mosaic Musing’s forum, Mosaic Musings would need to take the necessary steps to protect itself from liability.   Previously, we sent you a Digital Millennium Act Copyright (DMCA) Agent registration form.  This form enables Mosaic Musing to designate an agent, who is designated to receive notices of alleged copyright infringement. An internet service provider that complies with the provisions of the DMCA is supposed to have a safe harbor from liability for copyright infringement by its users.  In order to be eligible for this safe harbor, Mosaic Musings would need to comply with the notice and take down provisions of the DMCA.  This involves designating an agent at Mosaic Musings who will receive notices of copyright infringement, and taking down the infringing works from the website.  Thus, if Mosaic Musings complies with the provisions of the DMCA, it should be able to limit its liability for copyright infringement occurring on its site.

    If, however, the infringing work is copied from the Mosaic Musings website by someone else and posted on another website that is not associated with Mosaic Musings, it is likely that Mosaic Musings would not be liable for such infringement.  
  6. If a work is posted in MM's forums, and is subsequently plagiarized, does MM or any officers connected thereto have any obligation to pursue the matter in order to redress any wrong or harm done to the wronged member?

    As discussed above, if the infringing work is posted on Mosaic Musings website, and Mosaic Musings has notice of such infringement, then Mosaic Musings should take the necessary steps to remove this infringing work in order to limit its liability.


·······IPB·······

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~ J.R.R Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

Collaboration feeds innovation. In the spirit of workshopping, please revisit those threads you've critiqued to see if the author has incorporated your ideas, or requests further feedback from you. In addition, reciprocate with those who've responded to you in kind.

"I believe it is the act of remembrance, long after our bones have turned to dust, to be the true essence of an afterlife." ~ Lorraine M. Kanter

Nominate a poem for the InterBoard Poetry Competition by taking into careful consideration those poems you feel would best represent Mosaic Musings. For details, click into the IBPC nomination forum. Did that poem just captivate you? Nominate it for the Faery award today! If perfection of form allured your muse, propose the Crown Jewels award. For more information, click here!

"Worry looks around, Sorry looks back, Faith looks up." ~ Early detection can save your life.

MM Award Winner
 
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