a waltz in Vienna, variations on Poema Pequeño Vals Vienés de Federico García Lorca Options

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

In Vienna are ten lovely dolls,
on whose shoulders the grim reaper comes to sob,
in a forest of dissected doves.
There are fragments of the cock-crow
in the museum of frost.
There is a foyer with a thousand windows.
Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this waltz of adjoining jaws.

This waltz, this waltz, this waltz
Of “yes“, of death, and of cognac
that thrusts its tail into the ocean.

I love you, I love you, I love you
with the armchair and the dead book
by the melancholy anteroom,
in the iris-fillled dark loft,
on our bed bestowed by the moon
and in the dance dreamed by a tortoise.
Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this waltz of broken torsos.

In Vienna are four mirrors
where your mouth plays with echoes.
There’s a corpse by the piano
that paints young boys in blue.
There are beggars on the roofs.
There are cool garlands of tears.
Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this waltz that dies in my embrace.

Because I love you, I love you, my darling
in the lofts where our broods come to play
sleepwalking below old Hungarians lampposts
through the murmurs of warm evenings,
where whores stroll among irises of snow
For the dark silence of your face
Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this waltz of “I love you always.”

In Vienna I’ll dance with you
and for disguise, I’ll wear a river’s face.
Look at its shores of hyacinths!
I’ll leave my mouth between your legs,
my soul in photographs, white lilies
and in the dark waves where you walked.
I love you, my darling, my darling, behind I leave
tombs, violins and the ribbons of this waltz.


Translation by Marc-Andre Germain (16 June 2009).

Spanish poem by Lorca

En Viena hay diez muchachas,
un hombro donde solloza la muertey
un bosque de palomas disecadas.
Hay un fragmento de la mañana
en el museo de la escarcha.
Hay un salón con mil ventanas.
¡Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Toma este vals con la boca cerrada.

Este vals, este vals, este vals,
de sí, de muerte y de coñac
que moja su cola en el mar.

Te quiero, te quiero, te quiero,
con la butaca y el libro muerto,
por el melancólico pasillo,
en el oscuro desván del lirio,
en nuestra cama de la luna
y en la danza que sueña la tortuga.
¡Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Toma este vals de quebrada cintura.

En Viena hay cuatro espejos
donde juegan tu boca y los ecos.
Hay una muerte para piano
que pinta de azul a los muchachos.
Hay mendigos por los tejados.
Hay frescas guirnaldas de llanto.
¡Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Toma este vals que se muere en mis brazos.

Porque te quiero, te quiero, amor mío,
en el desván donde juegan los niños,
soñando viejas luces de Hungría
por los rumores de la tarde tibia,
viendo ovejas y lirios de nieve
por el silencio oscuro de tu frente.
¡Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Toma este vals del "Te quiero siempre".

En Viena bailaré contigo
con un disfraz que tenga
cabeza de río.
¡Mira qué orilla tengo de jacintos!
Dejaré mi boca entre tus piernas,
mi alma en fotografías y azucenas,
y en las ondas oscuras de tu andar
quiero, amor mío, amor mío, dejar,
violín y sepulcro, las cintas del vals.

A translation along with Leonard Cohen's version can be found at
http://www.webheights.net/speakingcohen/waltz.htm

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

I had posted a rework of the first stanza, but I'm removing it as I'm not satisfied with it. I think, first draught still better, if such a thing is possible...lol

[Guest_ohsteve_*]

Mark, Is this your interpretation? Or is this your vision of Senor Lorcas' Poem? It seems very close to that one that is posted on the web page you gave in the other thread, the one that had Lorca and Cohen side by side. That is the one I used for my interpretation. I wwish I could read this in the original Spanish.

Steve

PS...I promise faithfully that I wrote mine before reading this.

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Hi Steve, I'm just commented on your remarkable poetic gem. The version in this thread is the first draught of my translation, and my own interpretation comes to play only in the scope of translation itself; in other words, this is not an imitation/interpretation in the way I did say revamp Ginsberg's poem. This is just me playing with the sounds and an online Spanish-English dictionary. But my own imitation will come, I am actually working on a response to Lorca; it will take some time though, I've got quite some material to study.

Mark

[Psyche]

Hi Marc!

Here I am, at last. Had horribly busy days doing soul-destroying stuff of all sorts. Some translations are SO boring, but I need the $$$$... Plus other things.

Now Marc, I have a problem again with your term 'translation', as I did with 'imitation'. Is it your intention to create a version based on Lorca's poem, as Leonard Cohen did?

Because this is no translation, not even a highly free translation. Of course nobody wants literal translations, but you've strayed from Lorca's poem far too much for it to qualify as a translation.

Therefore it's a poem inspired or based on Lorca's poem, OK?

I want to add here, for my own convenience, a translation into English of Lorca's poem. To have it handy (I'm not sure whether it's the same one you provided in the link, probably is).

Little Viennese Waltz

Federico García Lorca


In Vienna there are ten little girls,
a shoulder for death to cry on,
and a forest of dried pigeons.
There is a fragment of tomorrow
in the museum of winter frost.
There is a thousand-windowed dance hall.

Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this close-mouthed waltz.

Little waltz, little waltz, little waltz,
of itself of death, and of brandy
that dips its tail in the sea.

I love you, I love you, I love you,
with the armchair and the book of death,
down the melancholy hallway,
in the iris's darkened garret,

Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this broken-waisted waltz.

In Vienna there are four mirrors
in which your mouth and the ehcoes play.
There is a death for piano
that paints little boys blue.
There are beggars on the roof.
There are fresh garlands of tears.

Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this waltz that dies in my arms.

Because I love you, I love you, my love,
in the attic where the children play,
dreaming ancient lights of Hungary
through the noise, the balmy afternoon,
seeing sheep and irises of snow
through the dark silence of your forehead

Ay, ay, ay, ay!
Take this " I will always love you" waltz

In Vienna I will dance with you
in a costume with
a river's head.
See how the hyacinths line my banks!
I will leave my mouth between your legs,
my soul in a photographs and lilies,
and in the dark wake of your footsteps,
my love, my love, I will have to leave
violin and grave, the waltzing ribbons

Federico García Lorca

Personally, I find this translation reasonable enough, tho' I'd change quite a few bits. I think one should get as close as possible to the author's original piece, without being ridiculously literal. That can be achieved fairly easily.

Going back to your own free version, I would first like to know your intentions. Have you got music in mind for it? Because if I don't know the music, then I can't very well help you.

At first reading, I find some terms a bit far-fetched, such as The Grim Reaper. Not used at all by Lorca, and I don't believe many 20th. Century poets used it, unless for a bit of black humor.

And why "ten lovely dolls"? In Spanish, "¡Qué muñeca!", the 'lovely' is implicit. Unless you actually mean dolls, toy dolls?

I haven't heard 'maws' used for people, just for animals. The dictionary says 'jaws of voracious animals'!
Man is a voracious animal, of course...

And there's "cock-crow" instead of 'mañana'....etc. etc., so I shan't continue until you let me, and Steve of course, know your intentions.

I'll need a second reading, but I believe your version is quite harsh compared to Lorca's. Corpses, whores and broods! Although death & love are both lurking in Lorca's work, he gives them a lighter touch, as does Cohen.

I must rush off now to R&F, where people have left many comments on my poem and I've not thanked anybody.

See ya, Marc!
Syl***

[Guest_ohsteve_*]

Mark and Sylvia...Does Fredrico's original in Spanish give more of what this poem is about? more so than the translation...as you say Sylvia, Larca does get in to death and love if lightly...I don't know it almost feels like there is something hidden in what he is saying or maybe that is just the touch of surrealism. Or maybe it is just the way I am reading it. Cohen's song interpretation has that feel to it also, as someone said it sort of transcends generations. Sorry to intrude more but I had to ask.

And Sylvia 'dolls' can be a semi-slang for females... 'isn't she a little doll' 'look at that doll sitting at the bar'

Steve

[Alan]

Dear Mark and Sylvia,

Thanks for the transl;ation into English of the original.

I have to say this is no way the Vienna I know and love !

I get the same feeling as I had when, loving LC's "Hallelujah", I googled the lyric, and was instantly turned right off by devices that if they were put up here would get politely scathing crit.

Love
Alan

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Hi Sylvia, thanks for reading; sorry to hear you didn't like it. I do appreciate the feedback, and I thank you for your time.

Because this is no translation, not even a highly free translation. Of course nobody wants literal translations, but you've strayed from Lorca's poem far too much for it to qualify as a translation.

Therefore it's a poem inspired or based on Lorca's poem, OK?

>>I see nothing to be gained over this nomenclature argument. My intentions/limitations were spelled out at the top of the thread.

Going back to your own free version, I would first like to know your intentions. Have you got music in mind for it? Because if I don't know the music, then I can't very well help you.

[color="#000000"]>>I do know the music, we've already shared on that. I know the song, what I don't know is Spanish.

At first reading, I find some terms a bit far-fetched, such as The Grim Reaper. Not used at all by Lorca, and I don't believe many 20th. Century poets used it, unless for a bit of black humor.

>>I'll confess to the sin of black humour, that's pretty much me :) Actually, I've been resisting the strong temptation to use Bill Door, the name taken by the Grim Reaper in Pratchett's novel The Reaper Man. "Death" being clearly personified in Lorca's poem, I thought I would give it the name we know for it to complete the personification. I could have used Charon or Hades but I think they've deserved their retirement..."on whose shoulders": I've taken a big liberty here, I am aware that this is not what Lorca meant, but pehaps a surrealist dismemberment is interesting after all :)

And why "ten lovely dolls"? In Spanish, "¡Qué muñeca!", the 'lovely' is implicit. Unless you actually mean dolls, toy dolls?

>>My turn to quote the dictionary: 2 a (1): a pretty but often empty-headed young woman (2): woman b: darling, sweetheart c: an attractive person....I mean all of them...really, why "ten pretty women"??? Also, "lovely dolls" works better musically, I've attempted crafting strong assonance and consonance throughout the poem, instead of trying to imitate the rhyme scheme, which is much easier in Spanish than in English, so I went with slant rhymes.

I haven't heard 'maws' used for people, just for animals. The dictionary says 'jaws of voracious animals'!
Man is a voracious animal, of course...

>>Agreed, will change that to "jaws" for now.

And there's "cock-crow" instead of 'mañana'....etc. etc., so I shan't continue until you let me, and Steve of course, know your intentions.

>>"cock-crow": a synonym for "morning" in English, more than the assonance and alliteration provided here (both in itself and the context of the first stanza), it contrasts well with "doves" (the dictionary I used listed both "doves" and "pigeons" for "palomas" so I chose "dove" for symbolic value) and makes, I think, for a stronger visual.

I'll need a second reading, but I believe your version is quite harsh compared to Lorca's. Corpses, whores and broods! Although death & love are both lurking in Lorca's work, he gives them a lighter touch, as does Cohen.

>>The word used by Lorca for sheep is also a slang word for "prostitute", which would recall the "dolls" of the opening line. Yep, that's too harsh a word and I'm looking for a good English words that would have the ambiguity. Granted, I am aiming for a tighter unity than Lorca and Cohen have.

I think this should give you a good idea of what I am attempting here. It is most probable that I've missed in terms of tones in nuances here. I'm not sure if my memory serves me right here, but "muchacha" or a similar sounding word is used for "prostitutes" in Cuba (could be wrong on the exact word used here.)

I understand (from comments posted after I posted this thread )that you are busy, never mind, I'm sure I'll be able to find a Spanish reader who will go through it with me.

Thanks again for your time,

Mark

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Alan, thanks for reading.

Steve, this is the information I am looking for. We've got our examples in English, notably in Hamlet:

- Get thee to a nunnery!

- You are the fishmonger.

Quick Elizabethean slang lesson: nunnery = brother; fishmonger = pimp.

Yep, there was method in his madness...lol.

"Cama de la luna" = is this related in any way to the "moon" of Sir John Falstaff?

I can't say for sure for 20th century Spanish poetry, but modernism, like the renaissance, did go back a lot to the classical canons, and most new literary movements found impetus in translations. Actually, Ezra Pound "translated" Chinese poetry out of the notes of another translator, as he did not read Chinese.

There is also the question of critical approach. Lorca (and Cohen's, to a lesser extent) do raise questions. Why "ten" pretty women? Who are these women? A shoulder where death comes to cry? Whose shoulder? Lorca and Cohen both make a point of dissociating the shoulder from the ten young women...Then the third line, a wood/forest of dissecated/dried up pigeons/dove...I think Lorca is using quite a strong visual here. The "fragment of the morning" sounds like something out of T.S. Eliot, in that prose poem on laughter. "The museum of frost": what images do we get here? A "museum" conjures images of the past, "frost" is cold, cold is "dead", and "without love." The last line of the first stanza is where I would really like to have the opinion of a Spanish reader, I feel I'm missing the nuance of "la boca cerrada." But "boca" being singular (if I'm getting this right), the only "clamping/closing jaw" is that of Cronus, feeding on his own progeny, from whose name came chrono/time. Wasn't he recalled in Andrew Marvell's carpe diem poem To His Coy Mistress?

In the following triplet, the translation I've found for "moja" was "thrust, stab", much harsher than merely "dipping" its tail in the sea...A waltz of death and cognac??

The second stanza opens with "te quiero, te quiero, te quiero" but is followed with some rather depressing, dark imagery: dead book, melancholy anteroom, a dark attic...What are we supposed to make of the attic? Also, is there a hint of eroticism in the "irises", which reappear in the penultimate stanza with "snow": "lirios de nieve."

Also, I believe that the poem was written in 1934, but what is exact era of Vienna are we talking about? Vienna of the Victorian Era conjures in my mind images of Sigmund Freud and the (non-)approach to sexuality of his days : Lorca has "flowers", "attics" or "dark" rooms, one in which are "children", yet the imagery is of winter. Winter is also a symbol of death, and one is reminded of the "museum of frost." It begins to look like a "carpe diem" turned into a "lament"...

There is more eroticism, the slight play of mouths and echoes of the third stanza and in the last stanza, the mouth between the legs, the latter line followed again with irises/lilies. It ends with departure, violins and graves...

Frederico Garcia Lorca sure gave us quite a poem to explore :)

Mark

Mark and Sylvia...Does Fredrico's original in Spanish give more of what this poem is about? more so than the translation...as you say Sylvia, Larca does get in to death and love if lightly...I don't know it almost feels like there is something hidden in what he is saying or maybe that is just the touch of surrealism. Or maybe it is just the way I am reading it. Cohen's song interpretation has that feel to it also, as someone said it sort of transcends generations. Sorry to intrude more but I had to ask.

And Sylvia 'dolls' can be a semi-slang for females... 'isn't she a little doll' 'look at that doll sitting at the bar'

Steve

[Guest_ohsteve_*]

Mark, this is fascinating...you know wisdom must come with age cause I used to hate this sort of thing in school. I wonder if there is a literary course I can take on-line and have my rich uncle pay for it...lol. Did you see the video on YT with Cohen talked about reading his good friends poetry. Irving Layton, ai web searched him and Cohen had him as a teacher and his work shows up in Cohen's style. You can definitely tell who Cohen learned from. I find it so restricting that as an American, we are so self centered sometimes we overlook those of other countries. I learned so much in all the time I spent being stationed in England and then Germany. In Germany children are taught English German and sometimes a third language. When I was growing up you only took a second language if you were college bound. Oh how much I wish I could go back and change that. And yet here we sit in our lower 48 ignoring wonderful neighbors to the north. Ive not read but bits of Eliot, hardly any Shakespeare,,, do you know I disliked Shakespeare until I went with my daughter to see a Midsummers Night Dream in London for one of her school trips. I was spell bound more fascinated than she I think. It just goes to show that given the right motivation one can learn, I sure wish I had had that motivation at a much younger age. Ah I begin to rant again...I've more reading to do I see...

Steve

[Psyche]

Steve, of course I know that 'dolls' means pretty females!
It's just that Lorca doesn't say dolls, he says 'muchachas', which means young girls, or young women, and nowadays is also used for maidservants. In most Latin countries middle-class and rich people have female helpers in the home. They used to be called 'siervas' (servant girls, almost slaves, quite a denigrating term). Nowadays they have a room & toilet of their own, albeit tiny, and a few rights that are not respected (they're mostly illegal immigrants).
If I need to use a dictionary, I tend to pick out María Moliner's 'Diccionario de uso del español', rather than the 'Diccionario de la Real Academia', which is rather stuffy.

I absolutely agree with you that Lorca's works have hidden meanings, some slang, some sexual, some political. Being gay and communist in Franco's Spain, you naturally ended up being shot, as Lorca was. Being careful was not enough, and in actual fact Lorca was none too careful when he knew his end was drawing near. There are some good documentaries on his life, also fictionalized movies, not bad. Though I appreciate Lorca's poetry very much, I prefer his theatrical works (to see onstage, better than reading, of course!).

I'm fascinated by your desire to go beyond the borders of the U.S. and learn about foreign writers! Keep going, Steve. And yes, I saw your poem and hope to comment... :-)

See ya, Syl***

Mark and Sylvia...Does Fredrico's original in Spanish give more of what this poem is about? more so than the translation...as you say Sylvia, Larca does get in to death and love if lightly...I don't know it almost feels like there is something hidden in what he is saying or maybe that is just the touch of surrealism. Or maybe it is just the way I am reading it. Cohen's song interpretation has that feel to it also, as someone said it sort of transcends generations. Sorry to intrude more but I had to ask.

And Sylvia 'dolls' can be a semi-slang for females... 'isn't she a little doll' 'look at that doll sitting at the bar'

Steve

[Psyche]

Hi Marc!
I didn't say I didn't like it, Marc. There's some wording I don't 'get' or bothers me.
As regards the music, excuse my being dense, but I thought you implied you were going to compose your own music for it, not use Cohen's. Please put me straight on this one.

Hi Sylvia, thanks for reading; sorry to hear you didn't like it. I do appreciate the feedback, and I thank you for your time.

Because this is no translation, not even a highly free translation. Of course nobody wants literal translations, but you've strayed from Lorca's poem far too much for it to qualify as a translation.

Therefore it's a poem inspired or based on Lorca's poem, OK?

>>I see nothing to be gained over this nomenclature argument. My intentions/limitations were spelled out at the top of the thread.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Marc. I see a great deal to be gained in knowing whether you are translating, imitating, creating a free version totally or partly your own, paraphrasing or some other mix using all or some of these nomenclatures, as you call them. Your intentions must be clear if you want help, but maybe they're not clear and that doesn't matter either, so long as you tell us...LOL...

Going back to your own free version, I would first like to know your intentions. Have you got music in mind for it? Because if I don't know the music, then I can't very well help you.

>>I do know the music, we've already shared on that. I know the song, what I don't know is Spanish.

Cohen's music?

At first reading, I find some terms a bit far-fetched, such as The Grim Reaper. Not used at all by Lorca, and I don't believe many 20th. Century poets used it, unless for a bit of black humor.

>>I'll confess to the sin of black humour, that's pretty much me :) Actually, I've been resisting the strong temptation to use Bill Door, the name taken by the Grim Reaper in Pratchett's novel The Reaper Man. "Death" being clearly personified in Lorca's poem, I thought I would give it the name we know for it to complete the personification. I could have used Charon or Hades but I think they've deserved their retirement..."on whose shoulders": I've taken a big liberty here, I am aware that this is not what Lorca meant, but pehaps a surrealist dismemberment is interesting after all :)

Charon or Hades don't fit Lorca, and The Grim Reaper sounds more like an Ingmar Bergman movie!

And why "ten lovely dolls"? In Spanish, "¡Qué muñeca!", the 'lovely' is implicit. Unless you actually mean dolls, toy dolls?

>>My turn to quote the dictionary: 2 a (1): a pretty but often empty-headed young woman (2): woman b: darling, sweetheart c: an attractive person....I mean all of them...really, why "ten pretty women"??? Also, "lovely dolls" works better musically, I've attempted crafting strong assonance and consonance throughout the poem, instead of trying to imitate the rhyme scheme, which is much easier in Spanish than in English, so I went with slant rhymes.

A misunderstanding, Marc, coz you said translation... I know about dolls!

I haven't heard 'maws' used for people, just for animals. The dictionary says 'jaws of voracious animals'!
Man is a voracious animal, of course...

>>Agreed, will change that to "jaws" for now.

And there's "cock-crow" instead of 'mañana'....etc. etc., so I shan't continue until you let me, and Steve of course, know your intentions.

>>"cock-crow": a synonym for "morning" in English, more than the assonance and alliteration provided here (both in itself and the context of the first stanza), it contrasts well with "doves" (the dictionary I used listed both "doves" and "pigeons" for "palomas" so I chose "dove" for symbolic value) and makes, I think, for a stronger visual.

Here we go again, Marc. I know about 'cock-crow'! Now that I presume you're creating your own version (not translating), it's fine with me.

I'll need a second reading, but I believe your version is quite harsh compared to Lorca's. Corpses, whores and broods! Although death & love are both lurking in Lorca's work, he gives them a lighter touch, as does Cohen.

>>The word used by Lorca for sheep is also a slang word for "prostitute", which would recall the "dolls" of the opening line. Yep, that's too harsh a word and I'm looking for a good English words that would have the ambiguity. Granted, I am aiming for a tighter unity than Lorca and Cohen have.

Didn't know about 'oveja' being slang for prostitute, but I wouldn't say that 'dolls' are necessarily prostitutes, except perhaps in men's minds... or certain contexts. 'Oveja' sounds horribly denigrating for working girls, but I wouldn't put it past Lorca's intentions.

I think this should give you a good idea of what I am attempting here. It is most probable that I've missed in terms of tones in nuances here. I'm not sure if my memory serves me right here, but "muchacha" or a similar sounding word is used for "prostitutes" in Cuba (could be wrong on the exact word used here.)

Maybe it's used in Cuba, I don't know. But it's not understood that way in most Spanish speaking countries, nor in Spain.

I understand (from comments posted after I posted this thread )that you are busy, never mind, I'm sure I'll be able to find a Spanish reader who will go through it with me.

Thanks again for your time,
Mark

Yes, I'm busy, but it's fun to delve into these topics. I shall certainly follow this thread and see what and whether you make some changes. Your Spanish is not as limited as you've led us to believe.
Sylvia

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Steve, thanks for coming back. I could help you locate a literature class, it's the rich uncle that is harder to find...lol. But with your input, and that of Sylvia, I feel that this thread has become quite an interesting discussion, and I know that I for one will become more enlightened, in a way I might not have had not Sylvia challenged me into exploring the poem more deeply.

Sylvia, first for the confusion, yep I am planning to set this to a different music (probably fado or samba - considering setting it to a song by Brazilian singer Bebel Gilberto, whom I saw in concert in Tokyo a few years back; also, I used to play the Portuguese guitar, so I actually am familiar with fado), which will require a more radical change of tone. But for the moment, it's pretty much an on-the-page version. Let's say it's a translation/imitation/modernization/interpretation of Lorca's poem

As for my Spanish, I studied it with Routeledge's Colloquial Spanish pack, a verb book and a dictionary, eventually reading Spanish newspapers, boxing magazines and even a few novellas...but that was 16 years ago, and I haven't used any Spanish since. I don't think I could hold even the most basic conversation in correct Spanish nowadays, though I think that would come back quickly enough. As for reading it, my native language is French and I am quite fluent in Italian (and I have studied elementary Latin, over a decade ago), so it's not like I'm entirely clueless.

I am still working on this, and believe me, I've got no idea exactly where this is going to lead me. But I sure enjoy the journey

At work, will be back for more.

Mark

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

I've just watched a documentary (in English) on Frederico Garcia Lorca on You Tube, and found it quite interesting. The seven parts are not clearly indicated, so here they are:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCwqZjku16A
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUKY1B71BCA
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2_Cxw4ds8
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me4tFv-7Bt4
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esVMX_vB2ko
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q4-pIgG28U
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1kRat_f4gE

On this recording, it's Lorca who plays the piano part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dL5Zkmt53o

Another poem by Lorca set to music, by Paco Ibanez (in Spanish):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY7t6pxpdaE
and the lyrics (also in Spanish) are here:
http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.php?hid=VesBtjiTeXo%3D
And Lorca's poem read by Spanish poet Rafael Alberti (in Spanish):
http://palabravirtual.com/index.php?ir=ver...%F3n+del+jinete



Another translation/interpretation/modernisation/imitation/free version/inspiration etc. on the way, perhaps

[Psyche]

Hi Marc,

I'll not have time to listen to UTube today, hopefully tomorrow.

BTW, as your project is unusual at MM, I/we would much appreciate it if you were to put 3 or 4 lines at the top, before your poem, to give all members an idea of what's going on, whether they speak Spanish or not. That's what we do here, not to exclude anybody. As far as I remember, translations have not been dealt with previously.

Your assistance (and that of other fluent Spanish readers here, if any) would be greatly appreciated.

I have no doubts that you can receive highly useful suggestions concerning English terms or other issues from all members who're interested.

One more thing: a lot of the confusion arose because you posted details of your project in another thread, including the issue of the music and other aspects. I'm afraid I can't remember stuff from other threads, it needs to be included in the short paragraph we need at the top, to have some info handy.

Thanks a lot, Marc! No offence meant! You'll be getting more feedback, which is what you're seeking, OK?

Cheers, Sylvia

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Hi Sylvia,

I've just changed the title and the description; I think "variations" should be clear enough.

Mark

[Psyche]

Hi Marc!
Back after a long absence...it's inevitable. The title adjustment is fine, but perhaps you could take a look in F&R, Herme's, and look for Thoth's (Wally) poems on African topics. You'll find that he often writes a paragraph before his poem to allow the reader to visualize the scenario, since Africa is so vast & complex that it's only polite to include a preface (as in many poetry books).

A totally different situation from yours. You mix Lorca, Leonard Cohen's lyrics & music & voice, plus your own translation-lyrics + music (this last nobody knows at all).

We only suggest this sort of introduction when the topic is not habitual. If you don't wish to do this, you won't be sent to jail.

Syl***

[Marc-Andre Germa...]

Hi Sylvia, thanks for coming back. I'm glad to know I "won't be sent to jail" The reasons why I do not usually include introductions and/or footnotes in my poem entries are that I believe a poem should stand on its own, and also that I am for workshopping purposes, and therefore need to know the reader's response to the poem itself.

Mark

[Psyche]

Well, never mind, Marc. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree...

An explanation at the top concerning one's workshopping objectives, especially when the author is proposing something unusual, won't detract from the poem. Actually, IMO, your's hardly stands by itself, because you've involved both Lorca & Cohen in your proposition.
Plus the Spanish language!

I'm off now, just popped in to see how things are doing, since Lori is unavailable and sometimes we have spammers doing some mischief. Sorry things are moving slowly, but until Lori returns I'm afraid it'll be like this..

Cheers, Syl