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Posted by: Larry Oct 7 07, 08:15

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Oct 7 07, 09:04

Hi Larry,

Yes, I would agree that this is more likely a Senyru since it is about people (emotion) and lacks a season. It is very lovely!

I suggest one change for you to ponder and that is 'touches' instead of 'touching'. You could also gain two sylls in L2 if you were to drop the 'ing's.

Just a thought.
Cheers
~Cleo

Posted by: 4rum Oct 7 07, 09:29

It IS consoling and comforting whatever the form. This is one of the most pleasing 'kus' I've seen in a while. Very nice.
sam

Posted by: Lady Poet Oct 7 07, 10:40

Hi Larry,

It's superb! Absolutely one of the best I've seen in a long time too. I've known haiku masters who title their works and those who don't. I suppose it's all relative to the artist. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if it has a title or not, it's what the poem conveys and how it makes me feel, and yours is a winner! I feel terrible today, and this little jewel made me feel a bit better. In short, I love it.

(((Hugs))) Pami

Posted by: Larry Oct 7 07, 13:53

QUOTE (4rum @ Oct 7 07, 09:29 )

Posted by: Larry Oct 7 07, 14:29

QUOTE (Cleo_Serapis @ Oct 7 07, 09:04 )

Hi Larry,

Yes, I would agree that this is more likely a Senyru since it is about people (emotion) and lacks a season. It is very lovely!

I suggest one change for you to ponder and that is 'touches' instead of 'touching'. You could also gain two sylls in L2 if you were to drop the 'ing's.

Just a thought.
Cheers
~Cleo

Posted by: Larry Oct 7 07, 14:32

QUOTE (Lady Poet @ Oct 7 07, 10:40 )

Hi Larry,

It's superb! Absolutely one of the best I've seen in a long time too. I've known haiku masters who title their works and those who don't. I suppose it's all relative to the artist. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if it has a title or not, it's what the poem conveys and how it makes me feel, and yours is a winner! I feel terrible today, and this little jewel made me feel a bit better. In short, I love it.

(((Hugs))) Pami

Posted by: Eisa Jan 26 08, 10:37

Hi Larry

Like everyone else, this has given me a warm glow today. I love your thinking behind this. An alternative way for you to ponder, of writing your words ~

Posted by: Larry Feb 13 08, 10:13

Hi Snow,

Glad my efforts brought you a warm glow. The "turn of phrase" is nice but being the stickler I am, it only has 5-6-5. I know our words are not as expressive as and can't be translated into Japanese and maintain the syllablic count but I would like to keep the last vestige of similarity to Haiku/Senyru as possible.

Maybe try this...

Love surrounds with warmth
to console and bring comfort
touching skin and soul.

Even without love, hugs seem to accomplish the same thing.

Larry

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Feb 13 08, 10:23

That would work there Larry, as you suggest above to maintain the 5/7/5 element of the Senryu form.

Good to this one up as it's a timely message!

~Cleo

Posted by: bombadil1247 May 10 08, 11:10

Hi, Larry,

I've always believed that less is more in this form so I'd take the pruning shears and offer

Posted by: Larry Jun 6 08, 09:20

Hi Jim,

If I were to shorten my poem that much, it would no longer be considered Haiku/Senyru, even in their most liberal westerner format. There would be a 3-6-3 syllabic count and even then, may or may not be translatable into the Japanese 5-7-5 requsite syllables. Besides, where is the "love" and "warmth"? Gotta have those for a good hug.
Thanks for taking the time to come by for a read and a crit but I will have to "lose" that suggestion.

Larry

Posted by: ohsteve Aug 28 08, 15:35

Larry, I agree with your 5-7-5 on hiaku as for titles thats a niether here or there for me, and I for one love hugs... pun intended.
Steve

Posted by: Sekhmet Feb 16 09, 11:03

Hello Larry - I enjoyed this Senyru enormously, and as you seem to know rather a lot about this sort of thing, I have unilaterally nominated you to be my mentor. Lucky old you!
You have written a Senyru which speaks to me - yet I remain ignorant of the correct forms. I have been whizzing up and down the short form critiques, trying to get a handle on the basics.
Before becoming interested I, like most people, had understood that A Haiku should have a syllable pattern of 5-7-5, and should be about nature and/or Season. Yet I have found haikus with different syllable patterns - and shorter syllable counts; and the subject matter is not always seasonal. Also, would I be right in thinking that this poem, A Senyru, deals with human emotions?
I would be most grateful if you could direct me to a useful reference source for these delightful little cameo verses.
Thank you for your help so far,
Leo

Posted by: Eisa Feb 16 09, 16:35

QUOTE (Sekhmet @ Feb 16 09, 16:03 )

Hi Leo

I just happened to call here & saw your reply, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.
I agree, Larry's senyru has brought a warm glow to everyone reading it.

As to directing you to some information - we had 2 haiku/experts join us for a short while. Unfortunately they have left now, but they have left a treasuer chest of information

http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/index.php?showtopic=10208

this thread explains why some people prefer the short/long/short pattern haiku to the traditional 5/7/5 lines.
There is a wealth of information if you have time to read it all (& get your head round it)

and http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/index.php?showtopic=10395

and http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/index.php?showtopic=10521

I think you'll find these links interesting, even if you prefer to stick to the traditional 5/7/5 pattern. I personally find it easier not to have the resctrictions most of the time.

Happy reading!
Snow

Posted by: Larry Feb 17 09, 01:16

Hi Leo,

Thank you for the resurrection of "Hugs". I am pleased that my small offering spoke to you and that you enjoyed it so much. You honor me so with your "unilateral nomination" of mentorship. I'm sure there are many members of MM with more expertise than I when it comes to writing Haiku/Senryu. I accept your offer and will assist you with anything in which I am able or have some knowledge that might be of help. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an expert at either form but I adore the challenge of expressing oneself in such a precise/concise format. There is no room for extraneous filler words; just the thought.

You are correct with your (I guess) rhetorical question about Senryu dealing with human emotions/interaction, etc. I believe this particular Japanese form also deals mainly with the satirical/humorous side as far as the content goes (possibly a Japanese form of a joke from someone with a very wry sense of humor). I've read a lot about these forms and written a good number of each but am, at best, a novice.

I see and appreciate Snow's links she provided and for stepping in and letting you in on the treasure trove of information available to the curious reader or the serious writer.

Thank you very much Snow. Both for your kind words and for your help and guidance to a fellow (Leo, I'm not being a chauvinist and can see by your avatar that you ain't no fellow!) writer and new member of MM's fine contingent of future Nobel Prize winners.

Seriously though. Thank you both for all you have said about my meager offering.

Larry

Posted by: Sekhmet Feb 17 09, 03:41

Good morning Snow - it was so good of you to, 'jump in', to hand me a torch to light the path of a would-be Haiku writer. I'll go and explore.
I admit to feeling at a loss about how to comment on a Haiku, (or anything similar) written by someone who is almost certain to be more aware of the conventions than myself.

I am reminded of the story of an extremely ancient expert on the subject of old Japanese Ivory - renowned for his ability to tell genuine old ivory carvings from the ubiquitous modern fake artifacts.
A much younger ivory dealer came to him, and asked;
" Tell me master, how can I, too, become infallible in my judgement of old ivory?'
The master replied
'Give me a month of your time, and I will teach you how it is done.'
The would-be master agreed at once, and was led into a room which was totally bare, apart from a simple rush mat,and a low rosewood table.
The old master silently gestured to the mat. 'Sit! Sit!' He then took from the voluminous sleeve of his robe - two intricately carved ivory figurines. He placed one figurine into his student's right hand,saying
'This is genuine ancient ivory.'
He placed the other figure into his student's left hand, and said
'This is an excellent modern copy.'
He turned and left.
For one whole month, the student sat on the mat, holding the two ivory figures, and drinking the cool water and plain rice which was brought to him each day.
After one month, the old master returned to the room.
The student sprang to his feet,
'I have done as you said, master - what will you show me next?'
The Old master smilingly waved the young man away, saying
You have already learned all there is to know on the subject.'

Thanks again,
Leo

Posted by: Sekhmet Feb 17 09, 04:02

Good morning, Larry. Thank you so much for letting me turn to you for advice - I apparently have to comment, whether or not I feel competent - So, I looked for someone who,'chimed true', to be of assistance.
You were he!

"I adore the challenge of expressing oneself in such a precise/concise format. There is no room for extraneous filler words; just the thought"

These words of yours exactly express what appeals to me about the form - such precision of thought requires tremendous concentration.
I am a pretty fair cook; and it reminds me of the preparation of a good stock. Concentration, re-concentration, adjustment of flavour; and finally clarification, and the removal of all extraneous fat.
Sounds like a Haiku to me!
I'll go and read - and come back if I have any questions.
Many thanks for your kind help,
Leo

Posted by: Eisa Feb 17 09, 11:28

Hi Leo

I hope you have had chance to read some of the links (I have to admit there is so much to read that I haven't had time to read all)

I think it's not a matter of tradition versus modern in the haiku form (well, I think all traditional crafts are better made than most modern) but more a translation of syllables, when English syllables don't match up to Japanese -- but then I'm sure you'll have read that in the links by now.

Happy learning & I look froward to your writing

Snow

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Feb 17 09, 21:42

Hi Larry,

What a heartwarming and beautiful senryu!!! Wow!!!

Peggy