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Mosaic Musings...interactive poetry reviews _ ARCHIVES -> Short Form Poetry -> Shogun's Psalms _ an American haiku (...the oak...)

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 20 09, 05:35

arid summer -
the oak by the septic tank
dips its roots

Posted by: Arnfinn Jul 21 09, 02:47

A good haiku; seasonal; present tense.

arid summer - >>>> WHERE?
the oak by the septic tank >>>>>WHAT?
dips its roots >>> WHEN?

I do not understand: why the low syllable count?

John

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 21 09, 03:26

John,

Thanks for responding. Where is good question indeed, I guess I could specify a location. Though it's got to be a place where there are oaks and most probably in a rural environment, where there are septic tanks rather than city sewage. I've thought that enough for the reader to pick his/her own such location, assuming the task shouldn't be a hard one for Europeans or North Americans. (Should I change "oak" to something more local, like "magnolia"?) Yep, L2 is disgusting, yep tree roots damaging septic tank is a reality for some, and an unpleasant one too...L3; I don't understand the question when...Go over any Japanese haiku (or even some American haiku, actually). What you will find is a kigo, which translates as season word (ki=season; go=word...yep, I actually speak & read Japanese.) In the summer should be answer enough within the confines of the haiku. Or am I to specify that the roots broke through the thanks at 17:02 GMT?

Why the low syllable-count? Because I am aiming at the concise, minimalist, sparse use of vocabulary, accordingly to the Japanese tradition. If you really want a proper Japanese count, then count your short vowels as one syllable and your long vowels and diphthongs as two syllables...

I'll consider. Thanks for replying (it's the first actual response to a poem posted I've received in a week), it's appreciated.

Mark

Here's a quick one in the 5-7-5, though I guess it will be called a senryu here (a distinction neither the Japanese masters nor the Haiku Society of America makes):

a Chinese couple
mollycoddles its poodle
with instant noodles

Posted by: Arnfinn Jul 21 09, 05:18

G'day, Mark.

I'm of the opinion that this is a good Haiku.

It fulfils the basics.seasonal; present tense.

And the three lines follow the requirments of:

Where. Line one. A tick. arid summer -
What. Line two. A tick. the oak by the septic tank
When. Line three. A tick. dips its roots

arid summer -
the oak by the septic tank
dips its roots

A good haiku, Mate.

Regards,

John

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 21 09, 06:37

John,

Thanks for coming back. I'm glad to hear you like this one.

Mark

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Jul 21 09, 08:59

Hi marc,

Interesting "poodle/noodle" senryu. If you're going to be true to Japanese tradition on one front, shouldn't you follow through on all fronts? Correct me if you know something I don't, but I believe a rhyme in a haiku/senryu is a "no-no." I did do rather much research on this question last year and came to the conclusion that it is taboo.

Whatcha think?

Peggy

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 21 09, 09:10

Thanks for the visit, Peggy. Nope, I am not advocating rhymes in a haiku. This poodle/noodle is only a joke, which is why I've posted it in a comment rather than giving it its own thread. A response to the actual post of this thread would have been appreciated. Never mind.

Mark

QUOTE (Peggy Carpenter Harwood @ Jul 21 09, 20:59 )

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Jul 21 09, 14:45

Hi Marc,

I'm sorry I offended you by critiquing a "joke" you were making. I assure you it didn't appear to be one.

I am also sorry I offended you by not critiquing the "American Haiku" as well.

Thank you for sincerely saying "Never mind." That's what we need in this world is more courtesy.

As for the "American Haiku," I've never heard of such a haiku. What is an American haiku? I call what you wrote a "senryu." As for myself, I prefer a 5-7-5 senryu.

Peggy

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 21 09, 20:52

Peggy,

The American haiku...I've posted these links on other threads, but you may have missed them:

http://www.hsa-haiku.org/

http://www.modernhaiku.org/essays/AmericanHaikuFuture.html

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiartjr.htm

Offended? Nope, that's not exactly it. Frustrated, perhaps. Disappointed with the responses received in the last two weeks, yes. I have removed a poem that did not receive any response in eight days, an experimental one which I feel (I might be mistaken here) was probably ignored because it didn't fit into any MM category...I removed a haibun which also didn't appear to have its proper place here. Other posts have become tautologies over terminology with little response (some with none) to the poem I had posted. How would you feel? Frankly, I feel no longer inclined to post my poetry here.

Mark

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Jul 21 09, 21:17

Hi Marc,

I wouldn't be discouraged in mid-summer. I'd wait for cooler weather when folks go indoors or like me getting ready for a vacation. I've been very, very busy and off the computer a lot, as I'm preparing a trip to Ireland. It's summer. People are working in yards and gardens or out of town to my way of thinking.

Hope you don't quit!

Peggy

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 21 09, 21:53

Peggy,

It's always summer here, but monsoon keeps me indoor.

Have a wonderful trip to Ireland (and Limerick Junction)!

Mark

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Jul 21 09, 21:58

Hi Marc,

Sounds like you live near Vancouver! They have lots of rain.

Peggy

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 22 09, 03:33

Hi Peggy,

I used to live in Vancouver, almost two decades ago. I live in Thailand now.

Mark

Posted by: prerna bala Jul 22 09, 05:18

you have a season which is summer, and the Oak which is a tree that needs a lot of water and the septic tank, which is as good as a description can get to the kind of water,
and the thought that where there is a need for water any water is good enough, philisophical i think , a reflection on something similar given below -

in my native language there is a saying which translates to :
"In grasslands - where there are hardly any trees, even the castor oil plant seems a juggernaut!

if you are aiming at minimalistic then you can pare off the "the"s in the second line i suppose and then the "its" as the meaning is implied, without the "its"

arid summer -
oak by septic tank
dips roots