Short Rondeau about this and that., a a, b b, etc. Options

[Ali zonak]

Hi all!

Oh Gad, this site is nearly dead,
yet sweeter than the one I’d fled;
I must lament Australia Times
that often rang this poet’s chimes.
To Maureen fond wishes I extend—
though incognito, yet as friend.
I want to greet you, noble band,
as I return from foreign land,
i.g. a site that (to me) is dead.

[Larry]

Hi Ali,

Glad to see you over here in Karnak joining in on the fun Daniel and I have been having. We usually do not critique these posts unless necessary when parameters are overstepped. You might go back to the first of the string to review the rules of the Short Rondeau. You did get away from tetrameter in your post and you did not end it with a small portion of the beginning of the first line.

This is just a FYI. If you want to join in on the string, welcome.

Larry

[Ali zonak]

Hi Ali,

Glad to see you over here in Karnak joining in on the fun Daniel and I have been having. We usually do not critique these posts unless necessary when parameters are overstepped. You might go back to the first of the string to review the rules of the Short Rondeau. You did get away from tetrameter in your post and you did not end it with a small portion of the beginning of the first line.

This is just a FYI. If you want to join in on the string, welcome.

Larry

Hi Larry;
I'm confused. Why would my "short rondeau" be completely flawed, beginning with the absence of tetrameter? Unless I'm tone deaf, it's written in iambic tetrameter (four feet, or 8 syllables) with an unavoidable accent clinker that is the prerogative of the writer? (ta TUM ta TUM ta TUM ta TUM. Some variation is allowed. An extra or missing syllable may be tolerated, and an occasional reversal of the ta TUM pattern (to TA tum) is common, even desirable as a way to avoid monotony. An example of four lines of tetrameter is the first stanza of the introduction to Milton,by William Blake:)

Secondly, I'm well aware of the rondeau's form, short or long, that had undergone several changes in the course of time. However, I took some liberties that now come back to bite me in the caboose. I should have adhered to the true rondeau form, which might be these ones I pulled off the net. As said, I took some liberties, but my lines are tetrameter. Thanks. Ali.

(I forgot the author's name)

"(a) In Summertime we do not go
(a) To school for weeks and weeks, no no!
(b) We take a day trip to the beach
(b) And buy ourselves an ice cream each
(a) We run into the surf that's low
(a) Get seaweed wrapped around our toes
(a) While others sunbathe on a throw
(b) We build sandcastles tides can't reach
(A) In Summertime."

In Flanders Fields
John McCrae (1872-1918)

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark the place, and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below

We are the dead; short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take upon your quarrel with the foe!
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high!
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[JustDaniel]

Several comments here, Ali...

Larry DID mention that Karnak is not a place for critique before he offered his observations in passing, to be fair.

And both Larry and I are completely aware of the variations allowed when writing i.t. or i.p. or whatever, and that the variation betimes is even desirable.

And of course both of us are quite aware of the rondeau form. I think however that you had INTENDED to respond to the "short rondeau" form, but instead created a NEW TOPIC, instead of posting your attempt at the form in that particular thread.

You'd see that each thread is the NAME OF A PARTICULAR form, and an encouragement to PRACTICE that form within that thread. When someone makes a MISTAKE regarding the FORM itself, we often point that out, so that we don't practice something wrong. But again, we don't do critique. Sometimes, when one of us in our playing comes up with a nice piece, we encourage each other to post it for critique in HERMES HOMILEES....

which, by the way, I'd suggest that you do with this piece. I'd encourage you to do so. I'll have a number of comments and questions about yours when you post it there.

Your piece, however, is not THE FORM 'short rondeau', which you'll discover when you go to the very beginning of that thread, where I posted Merlin's introduction of it to us. Before that time I had only been familiar with the standard rondeau (link to that form in Karnak, which you can click to visit), of which we've written several, some posted in that thread.

I hope that clears things up.

Of course you're welcome to post a NEW TOPIC in Karnak, but not unless it is to introduce a form that is not already listed in Karnak. Okay?

deLighting in your sharing, Daniel

[Larry]

Hi Ali,

To clarify my tiny nits: I never said your "Short Rondeau" was completely flawed or that the whole piece was not in tetrameter. Lines 5 and 9 are the only ones which diverge from true i.t. and are 4 1/2 feet in length. You are correct when stating a feminine ending is permissible and is often employed by many writers. I didn't want to get into a full critique of your piece but will mention that your "Short Rondeau" has the rhyme scheme of the classic "Rondeau" i.e. aa, bb, etc. where the noted rhyme scheme of the "Short Rondeau" is ab, ab, cd, ca (or R) and line 6 should rhyme with the portion of line 1 which is the refrain. The "Short Rondeau" is also only 8 lines long but then, again, different strokes for different folks.

I didn't mean for my comments to bite you on the caboose. Changes in form are inevitable and, in fact, are done quite often here at MM. Feel free to come up with new forms or an admixture of known forms any time you wish.

Thanks for coming to join our happy band and I hope you didn't take umbrage with what I have said.

Larry

[Larry]

A Short Rondeau in answer to yours!


To me a site that’s nearly dead
is webbed by cobs or maybe ghosts
of all the writers who have fled
to other realms and pen their posts
so all the hinter-net will view
with tears or maybe laughs of glee
from what they wrote but that’s not due
to me.