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azurepoetry
Posted on: Apr 22 07, 08:00


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Hello All,

I am off on vacation (NY) for a week, but I just wanted to wish everyone well and ask one of the mods/admin: could you please change "thicken" in this line---His blood slowly thickens into a bed of red roses ---back to "coagulates".

Thank you all and I wish you luck on this month's competition. Cheers!
~Tim
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #94701 · Replies: 62 · Views: 16,360

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 26 07, 03:30


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Cleo,

My absolute apologies on my tardy reply. Since time has expired, I will send a permission e-mail for next month if that is an option. I have had my time absorbed outside of the virtual world.

Silhouetting is a great suggestion. Intone I will have to consider, since meadowlarks actually sing warning songs to other possible intruders (esp. other meadowlarks, when mating is intended).

Thanks you again for your kind comments and suggestions, I promise to try and come to a concluding version on this poem. I have just written one poem, between this and now...if that tells you my loss for creation. On the other hand, reading has been my best friend.

~Tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #93529 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 8 07, 11:15


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Hi Snow,

You may need to oil your clippers after that last cut---hahaha. This feels closer, yet Liz is also on target with her ideas and suggestions. i missed suggesting to omit the sofa altogether; that would read stronger. This version feels leaner and purrs better. Suggestions like explaining what everything is in S1/L3 that Liz notes is needed. i am going to ponder this later on tonight, after my second shift.

Here is a different idea for the opening; consider going one step farther by omitting emotions directly:


My grey emerges with the sky's cloudiness
as I turn her front door key,
into abandonment, emptiness...
except for Mam's parlour:

understated in grandeur,
gold velour drapes the window bay,


i apologize Snow; the above is a severe rewrite, but it illustrates my thoughts. Don't use it, use your words and your images, just try and take words like emotions out of this poem and offer something metaphorical instead, jmo.
It's hard to use rain and sadness together, because it's been done so many times. i feel like you need to be extra careful, since it is your opening stanza.

i'll be back late tonight.

Cheers!
~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92396 · Replies: 43 · Views: 7,740

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 8 07, 10:43


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Hello John,

That is some pretty high praise you've given about this piece and i appreciate it. i'm not sure what i want with this poem. i'm thinking of moving out of crit for now; i feel indifferent on this for some reason.

Nonetheless, thank you very much for stepping in. i believe now i owe you two....give me a couple of days to repay the favour mate.

~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92395 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 5 07, 04:11


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Sampo,

You're more than welcome for the crit....my crits are occasionally full of beans, but i don't charge beans for 'em.
i hope to read more of your thoughts in verse and crit.

Until then...cheers!
~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: Introduce Yourself · Post Preview: #92228 · Replies: 10 · Views: 3,594

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 12:30


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Siren/Dani,

thank you very much for the read. i am in no hurry about this poem, so don't you be either. It'll be here when ever you want to come back.


Liz,
Grandma's work always come first. Most of the changes are from either Snow or your suggestions, so i have both of you to thank, really. Okay....thank you.


~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92190 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 00:54


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Hey there Sylvia,

A belated congrats on your award!! You've worked (and reworked) this poem quite a bit.

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92146 · Replies: 43 · Views: 10,738

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 00:47


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Hey Cathy,

Congrats to you on this multi-award winning poem. Wowsers!

i don't have anything to offer after all that's been said and done already. Looks good.

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92145 · Replies: 49 · Views: 15,144

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 00:43


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i know this isn't a crit area, but oh man, i love "torches raze a tepid night" that's both musical, vivid and original a line.
Since Liz has second and thirds, i'll take sloppy fourths....... ohmy.gif

~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92144 · Replies: 51 · Views: 16,853

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 00:36


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Snow,

That's very gracious of you to say. Let's just wait and see what the rest of the month has to offer, shall we?

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92143 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 4 07, 00:29


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Hi PPan,

Okay, i'm back. i have more questions than answers...er, i mean suggestions. i offer another couple of stanzas rewritten in timspeak. i apologize about that up front, i feel there needs to be more done to personalize this poem. One thing would be to make this poem a little more conversational in tone.


QUOTE
TheAn abandoned tractor lends its the only greenery
into a vast sun-bleached field;
RootedScarlet tumble weeds bring a scarletpunctuate the roadside ---bring is a weaker verb
flush to drab roadside,
where telephone wires the only hint of human. ---actually, the wires are the only CONSTANT hint of man; the tractor and the windmill are hints of man, abandoned or otherwise. Also, the minimalistic style of this piece, doesn't serve emotions or the flow of the images. The choppy read interrupts me from getting into what's going on. Bring in the prepositions and equivalent verbs and the piece will drive itself. Oh yeah, please change man to human.

Wind blows across the plain. ---while i like the idea of repetition, might i suggest that you consider taking the emphasis of these lines off the sites being seen by the reader and put it back on the dusty road we're travelling down. The road is the one constant in all of this and something that people's view return to time and again, even as passangers. Something like: Winds cropdust the sepia road. Repeat that and no matter what the stanzas (or verses if you will) show, this is the chorus. Sepia because it has a specific brown colour that is associated with photographs (i.e. additional image allusion).

Entranced by rows of mielies, ---you want to tell me your entranced/hypnotised. If you wist to avoid this consider slightly personifying the rows of corn in manner that would draw our attention; i mean something we would 'see' if we were mindlessly fixated on the corn. btw, corn husks and stalks are green, which contradict the opening line. There must be a stronger sense of setting change (ie. more direct comment) letting us know that we are in farming fields. Something to make the transition from S1 smoother, imo.
our wandering minds land
in fields of sunflower heads.
Now and then bush covered hillocks
vary the landscape. ---imho, just show the variance, don't tell us. We'll get it, promise.

Winds propel the windmill, ---nix the wind in this stanza, we already have it in the repeating line. Consider suggesting the windmills cause of movement, without actually saying it. This will help unify the theme of the wind being the one constant throughout with out hitting the reader over the head.
silver blades pump
up underground streams,
life is nurtured; colours erupt.

Wind blows across the plain.

Our city opulence forsaken - ---sorry, still don't like this line. i have to...go right ahead and ignore this. i feel better now.
Smog slowly vaporises ---smog should be capitalized. Consider vaporises the end of the line, because it's such a strong word.
revealing a bejewelled nightsky. ---bejeweled, i assume, is a starry sky. imo, i would like to see the night bejewelled, not the sky. The night settles down over the travellers and yields a closeness to them that sky implies a distance.


Too rapidly, our tumble weed is snared;
compelling us
back to urban days.
---snared doesn't work, i should have caught this sooner---the tumble weeds are already rooted according to S1/L3. This stanza feels a little tacked on. i can't get enough emotion or reference points to understand why were yanked back. Perhaps this is the right distance, but i don't get a sense of pleasure or release, or more importantly, what caused our return.

Wind blows across the plain.


Okay, here's an example of the first four stanzas in timspeak, just to illustrate my points:


An abandoned tractor lends its greenery
to a vast, sunbleached savannah; scarlet tumble weeds,
roam and punctuate the roadside,
where telephone lines
are the only constant hint of humanity.

Winds cropdust the faded sepia road.

Rows of mielies
welcome us alongside our car,
at attention, in single files,
as billowy dust runs playfully in-between them.

Winds cropdust the faded sepia road.

etc.....


i don't know geography well enought to know if the image you have posted is actually savannah, but i went with it for flavour.
Describing the corn and personifying them means the travellers are investing time to see them as something else, and the mentioning of rows indicates there are plenty of them to allow this to go on. The use of commas slows down the reader and attempts to get the reader to linger in these images in this stanza. The dust returns, but really its the wind moving through the corn, yet i don't want that to be told directly, just shown. Thus each stanza (including taking liberties with the roaming tumble weeds) indicates motion of the wind as the next stanza with sunflowers could, or the one after with the moving windmill. Grant it, i'm not crazy about my offering of the repeating line, but just an idea. My main point is to bring attention away from the road, so that the next stanza shifts us back to the fields.

Good luck, i'll be keeping an occasional eye on this,
~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92142 · Replies: 18 · Views: 4,074

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 3 07, 16:22


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Hi Snow,

i have many duties to attend to today, but i kept forgetting to respond to this poem. i have not read your thread, so any duplications may be viewed as another vote for the same suggestion. i like this poem a lot and like the last poem i've critted of yours ("Would You Like to Dance?) this basically needs a strong haircut after giving birth (to keep the baby from pulling hard tounge.gif ) This poem has a lot of nice sonic elements woven into it. The haircut is designed to bring that out and keep the poem moving a little. May be i cut too much and you would want to slow the pace down to linger on some of the parts, that of course, is your final descision. Here we go.....


QUOTE (Eisa @ Feb 21 07, 17:38 ) [snapback]91744[/snapback]
My mood mirrorsis the grey sky
as I turn the front door key...
relieved to shelter from the deluge.

All rooms look abandoned, ---no need for hyphenation here, just a comma.
except Mam’s bestparlour room; ---(semi-colon) 'best' come across later. For now, Mam's room works as it was her place and contradicts her current reality. Parlour added, because that's what it reads to me and because it off-rhymes granduer in the now, next line.

It’s dated appearance
has an understated in grandeur, ---(comma instead)
gold velour drapes the window bay, ---(comma instead)
while the sill is swamped with keepsakes. ---'while' gives, to me, a stronger sense of scanning point-to-point, while also reinforces the 'L' sound of sill that ALMOST carries to 'pile' at the end of the stanza.
A sheepskin rug, centre floor, ---(comma)
hugs my feet into its deep pile.

Guests would be ushered in here
for cups of tea and cakes;
I can still hear their chatter ---for some reason, i want 'can' in here, may just be me.
warmed by laughter, until
the alien scrambled her mind; ---(semi-colon) for effect, jump from shocking statement about 'alien' back into reality: she's in the hospital.
and visitors dwindled.
I doubt she’ll have any callers
atin the nursing home. ---'in' is a matter of preference.

I sift though drawers and shelves
to supervise the gathering ---why the hyphenation? Why not just 'to' or 'and'?
of hospital equipment.
Two armchairs now stand alone, ---consider moving this line to the bottom of this stanza, since that is where we pick up in the next stanza. The sofa is just segue, and the bed fills superfluous. A little note about the coach that used to be, since we are still in the parlour and working our focus in tighter to the armchairs. Add a little detail about the sofa to help me 'see' it, so that i may appreciate it being gone from the room.
the sofa has long resided
into the garage;, giving way
for a downstairs bed.
---(semi-colon to link the thoughts).
now, an arm chair stands alone.---addendum: consider one chair, the other becomes superfluous toward the story, as if this chair was the last thing taken out and then the reminiscining starts.

Feeling jaded,
I sit on the faded chair
of dappled velvet, ---hmmm, dappled velvet, lush material. i definitely 'see' that.
my mind somersaulting
back through the years.

The room nudges me with reminiscences … ---pick one, somersaulting which is a very strong action, or nudges which more subtle. Both lines are saying the same thing with two different types of impact on the N (and the poem)...maybe 'nudge' as many things you talk about in this poem are pleasant reveries and 'tumble' appears in a later stanza.

courting days, --- i get it nicely with breathless in love.
smooching on thethat sofa ---consider mentioning some detail about the sofa being newer, firmer to corrolate with the feeling of love and home, etc.
breathless with love ...

waiting with Dad
for my wedding car --
nerves gnawing inside ... … ---why two sets of elipsis? Just one like the stanza above would work to show the jump in the timeline, imo.

cushioned onin this chair ---what do you think of 'in'?
I nursed my baby boys,
inhaled their honeyed fragrance ... …

over-feasted ---i don't think you need a comma here
on Boxing Days,
we piled in here, drinking upsipping ---sipping is a slow movement (after feasted) and harkens to the actions the guests Mam would have had performed. Sipping also continues the 'p' sound, while adding another 's'-sound smoothing out the line, again imo.
the cosy atmosphere.


Stroking the familiar arms
for a final time, the past ---brought this up here, fell stronger to break noun and verb here.
wraps around me, forming a plastic covering ---alluding to how some furniture is so wrapped to protect and preserve it.
soand tears, slick, tumble ---a matter of taste, i dislike 'so' starting most lines...i do have exceptions.
like the showers outside.

I sense a rush of warmth
-- a celestial embrace.

‘It’s only a chair, love’

‘I know, Dad --
a chair full of memories’
---Where does this ending come from? Is Dad departed as well? This feels to left-field. Maybe you could end it at 'like the showers outside'? Just another thought.




My mood is the grey sky,
as I turn the front door key;
all rooms look abandoned,
except Mam’s parlour:

understated in grandeur,
gold velour drapes the window bay,
while the sill is swamped with keepsakes.
A sheepskin rug, centre floor,
hugs my feet into its deep pile.

Guests would be ushered in
for cups of tea and cakes.
I scan still hear their chatter
warmed by laughter, until
the alien scrambled her mind;
I doubt she’ll have many callers
in the nursing home.

I sift though drawers and shelves
to supervise the gathering
of hospital equipment.
The old sofa has long resided
into the garage; now
an armchair stands alone.

Feeling jaded, I sit
on the faded chair of dappled velvet,
and I am nudged back to

smooching on the snow white sofa
breathless with love ...

waiting with Dad
for my wedding car --
nerves gnawing inside ...

cushioned in this chair
I nursed my baby boys,
inhaled their honeyed fragrance ...

over-feasted
on Boxing Days,
we piled in here, sipping
the cosy atmosphere.


Stroking the familiar arms
for a final time, the past
wraps around me, forming a plastic cover,
as tears, slick, trickle
like the showers starting outside.


Something like that. i tried not to take liberties with your work, but i couldn't help myself with the ending and pressed for time i just threw it in, sorry. Also: i threw in 'snow white', not knowing the specifics' i just wanted to offer a visual to corollate the condition of the couch with the idea of love that the scene was depicting.
Hope this helps. Please feel free to ask if you need any clarification.

I'm off...ttfn,
~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92115 · Replies: 43 · Views: 7,740

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 3 07, 10:45


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Thanks Cyn,

Good luck to you, too!

~tim
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92091 · Replies: 53 · Views: 24,364

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 2 07, 16:34


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Hello sampo,

Welcome to MM. i have enjoyed your first parlay into the FV forum and look forward to reading more of your thoughts within that piece and others.

Cheers!
~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: Introduce Yourself · Post Preview: #92072 · Replies: 10 · Views: 3,594

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 2 07, 16:27


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Hey PPan,

i am off to work so i have to skid-daddle, but i've been here a few times, since the revision and i'll try and return tonight, after work to offer my thoughts on the revision.

Cheers!
~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92071 · Replies: 18 · Views: 4,074

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 2 07, 16:26


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Hello sampo,

i am pressed for time as i must go back to work tonight.

John has given you some sound advice within his crit. Let me add a couple of things.
First off, i get the point of the metal shaft = elevator and the feel that the N (narrator) is in descent, but i don't think that comes across, esp. since there was no preparation beforehand to give the reader a chance to get it.
Your first real hit comes in the dialogue and the [insert forced laughter] line.

My advice: Change the first stanza. Sun-dead hallways and the set up of stagnation are fine, but there is not set up for the N's feelings. Even a line about the N's trepidation and the unease, counterpointed by the antiseptic, orderly environment of a hospital.

Another thought: consider holding the setting titles to include the change up with the doctor, maybe even move it to a nurses' station--still spliced into the room conversation--and then perhaps the N makes his way "down", perhaps just a little double meaning in the writing could let the elevator be there along with the "sinking feeling" you are going for and, finally, place the 'title' of O'Malley's Pub and leave it out of the thought-speak with just the words attributed to the N's inability to deal with his father's situation in the hospital.

My last nit for now: consider alluding to something about the severity of the ailment. i would surmise it is serious, if not life-threatening, but even admist the blah-blah-blah, you could include something like this...

blah-blah-spread to lungs--blah-blah--inoperable-blah-blah-diddy-blah.

You get my point. i am sorry to be so short with you.
This poem has a lot of bravery and honesty that is refreshing and should be in poetry in general, imo. You have a winning piece that needs some tuning.

Good luck, i'll be back later to address anything i've mentioned that you need clarification and i'll try and keep an eye on this one's developement.

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92070 · Replies: 5 · Views: 1,878

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 2 07, 15:56


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Gregory,

Yes, good luck to you sir. Hopefully one of us can bring back some sort of award ***fingers crossed***

~tim
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92069 · Replies: 53 · Views: 24,364

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 1 07, 10:36


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Hello All,

i am sending a message to Cleo as well, but just in case, here is my updated revision attempting to address some of the obscure portions that Cyn so aptly pointed out:


Tuned to the burning stars within our cosmos,
she touched the harp, releasing
souvenirs plucked like musical notes
from collections of journeys beyond her inner ear.

How can I chart the depth of dripping candles,
that measure the spiral shadows of a staircase
or calculate the dimensions of a black hole
that fills the space between ivory keys?

She drew a line from her legacy
to the cluster of Pleaides--seven sisters
intertwined in her delicate hands,
yet independent like the sturdy legs
under her grand piano, when she played

bop that transfigured the teardrops of Shiva
into falling grains of sand.
Encircled in fire, He also beat the celestial drum
for her lover, who rose through divinity
around the cleansing scirocco of tenor saxophone,

into the mythology of jazz.


Again, please keep the epigraph attached to this and all is ready for IBPC.
Many thank yous for this chance to represent this fine poetry website.
~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92038 · Replies: 53 · Views: 24,364

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 1 07, 10:07


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Cyn,

i have been thinking on your words for quite some time. Firstly, let me apologize for not replying to your very constructive comments sooner. i see where you are coming from and alas, will have to make some sort of correction to address the deficiency in the transition between instruments.

Re: the last line. Um, i'm torn about that too. You are the first to mention the detraction and that bothers me even more. i will address the first problem immediately in lieu of the IBPC, and meditate on the latter later on today.

Thanks for your help and again, good luck,
~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #92036 · Replies: 22 · Views: 5,663

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 1 07, 10:02


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Well Cyn,

Congratuations. Good luck to you with this fine piece in IBPC.

~tim
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92035 · Replies: 53 · Views: 24,364

azurepoetry
Posted on: Mar 1 07, 10:01


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Congratuations Liz,

Well done. Good luck in IBPC!!

~tim
  Forum: IPBC Archive · Post Preview: #92034 · Replies: 53 · Views: 24,364

azurepoetry
Posted on: Feb 28 07, 05:14


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Hello Snow,

Thank you so much for coming back to this poem. Let me address your thoughts first.

QUOTE
Somewhere--
where chimney smoke dots the distance
in synaptic gaps, like memory loss in warm rolling meadows, I tango

The beginning has a dreamy feel that draws me in.
I keep feeling I’d like to see ‘I tango’ on a new line here, but I like the feel of movement on the narrator’s part.
---i want the break on the verb 'tango'. The "location" and the verb and then we are given the sun and the heat, like the building of the fever. i sense you internal uneasiness about the split; believe me, i wanted that.


with the sun matching my every step.
Our growing heat--a fever un-indexed by any chart--
warms my neck as meadowlarks


Perhaps ‘unindexed on any chart' ---um, yeah 'on'...i like it.


sing warnings to intruders. I pause
in rehearsed mid-curve of a dip
to slip myself off; upside-down, the blue sky

Great sonics in this st. which fits in nicely with the birds singing. ---thank you very much.

becomes a cloudy skipping stone path
along a zen azure river bed. Something
crosses that rarefied stream; meadowlarks

scatter and fly into those rapid currents to drown,
as the timothy grass above
bows and parts like hair yielding to watery eyes. He arrives

beautiful imagery in these 2 stanzas. I felt that meadowlarks might work better beginning the following stanza and also miss the ‘and’ ---got it. thank you.meadowlarks scatter, flying into …

in fact I think swoop or dive would fit better – perhaps dive would fit well with the water below. ---yes, dive might be better; i was looking for something like that, but a word that might address both 'up' and 'down'.


hunkered and stalking; the sun
returns to its rightful place; released, I twist and fall onto my knees.
The wind offers burning incense:


perhaps original position for L2

pine needles and ripened blackberries
from the undergrowth of his kinky hair.

Now some added interest – you introduce ‘he’ and the sudden change to a 2 line stanza is interesting
---i do not like the 2 line stanza break. Unable to address that weakness, i decided to workshop this. *smile*


His indefatigable arms,
with sun-kissed skin, gather me up--
wildflowers bunched to his bare chest

Perhaps ~
Indefatigable, his sun-kissed arms
gather me up
wildflowers bunched against his bare chest ---yes, i am fixated on keeping skin with sun-kissed. i will think about this as you are the third person to have omitted the word 'skin'.


in one motion; I stare at the thin scars on his stomach
while his breath--
a Snowy Owl's wingtip brushing a white rabbit--surrounds me.

I feel like saying
while his breath like ….


My shaky fingers crawl inside his hands: hands
dewy and deathless as the Earth
that receives all of us in our due turn.


L1 I think shaking fingers sounds better here – or trembling
L3 receives us all ……. ---you're correcting, one of this -ing's should be used. Thank you.


We spin.

Where did you come from, O Beautiful One? The ancient capital
of Nineveh, by way of Lesbos and Sappho's revered verse,
only to descend into my arms...maybe...

pivoting, his dark myrrhic eyes betray his intentions,
and I feel my breasts heave and sigh, as our rush
blurs grass and sky,

until colours fracture, fall
and form iridescent steps to Aphrodite's throne. We ascend past the clouds;
I half expect feathers to tear from his back, during our dance.


I love the introductory short line ‘we spin’. Hereon this becomes mystical. You have added so much interest with reference to poetry and ancient goddess. Excellent! ---thank you again, Snow.


We drift.

I kiss him before he condenses and falls like rain,
returning back to the soft ground.
His blood slowly coagulates into a bed of red roses

that are plucked
by young, barefoot maidens in flowing, virginal dresses
who have come far to worship our passing beauty.

Perhaps ‘his blood flows into a bed of red roses? ---This creates a possibility that one item is moving into another, not becoming. The latter is my intention for reasons i mentioned above, i want the birth-life-death-rebirth aspect of the lesser god Adonis to be repeated in the blood-red rose-maiden image of menstration.
This has a wonderful mystical feel of dream-like fantasy
.

I wake.

The sun offers me red rows through my window in consolation;
I grin at those fresh flowers filling the kitchen vase,
while my husband, awake early, smiles coyly
and burns myrrh incense.

I was wondering how this would end and have to applause!
You have the incense and roses from earlier to tie it all together.

I really love this Tim. it is one of the most unique poems I have read in a long time

I have a feeling I shall be back again to digest this even further.



Thank you very much Snow. This has been helpful. i don't think this poem is that extensive. The message is no matter what our dream lover may be, something of that love/lust/interaction can be manifest in the real world. Elements of mythology: Adonis and Aphrodite, etc., losing oneself (zen reference and slip off myself) and a sense of nature's participation can all make up a real love, imho.

Your words are very helpful. i will work this one over in a little bit. i have crits to catch up on. **smile**

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #91997 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Feb 28 07, 04:54


Laureate Legionnaire
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Group: Gold Member
Posts: 322
Joined: 20-August 06
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Member No.: 217


Hi Liz,

Hugs to you as well. Thank you, in advance, for the thorough reply to my offering; i greatly appreciate.

i don't want to over-explain this poem, in its history or mythology, but keep in mind that the thrust of this poem is derived from a poem by Nina. Simplified, her poem is about an N who sheds her old, slightly damaged flesh, for a new body. Afterwards, she dances naked in a field of bluebells, until her tall, dark Adonis comes to her. She climbs an iridiscent stairwell and entwines with her lover as they jump off the top of the steps onto the clouds.

i could go into a great detail of my research regarding the figure of Adonis, but let me offer a couple of points, only. If you want i'll message you further details.

Adonis is figure that the Greeks received from the Assyrians (modern day Syria, Lebannon, etc). The myth of Adonis is that his mother (Myrrha) is cursed by Aphrodite, for some offense, to incestuously lay with her own father (a king whose know escapes me) through duplicity, until the king discovers her identity and then attempts to kill her. Pregnant, she flees wishing not death, nor life and Aphrodite takes pity and turns her into a Myrrh tree. A blow delivered either by her father's arrow or from a boar tears open the bark and Adonis is born from it. Aphrodite sees his beauty and whiskes him away to Persephone. Later, the two fall in love, until Adonis is slain by a boar during a hunt. Aphrodite sprinkles a nectar on his blood and Persephone takes his shadow into the underworld. This changes him to becoming a "lesser' god of perennial vegetation. Birth-life-death-rebirth are his attributes.

Additionally, Sappho created a cult of the Undying Adonis where maidens worshipped him regularly. Thus going from Ninevah-to-Sappho-to-the N (in the Midwest) is part of the theme.

Okay enough of this...on to your responses.

QUOTE
Somewhere--
where chimney smoke dots the distance
in synaptic gaps, like memory loss in warm rolling meadows, I tango


Perhaps 'over warm rolling meadows,' to paint that misty dreamlike state of dotting clouds (allowing 'over' to also intensify the idea of memory loss (of the mind) ... I like the 'I tango' which takes the reader from a introduction of a mysterious tone, eluding to a dreamlike state, but not committing to it so early on... to actual movement of the narrator. Good build up.

with the sun matching my every step.
Our growing heat--a fever un-indexed by any chart--
warms my neck as meadowlarks

In L1, perhaps 'as the sun matches my every step. l2, I kept wanting to say "on any chart' as when I think of a chart I think of a visual measurement shown on the chart, while indexed by any thermometer (which does the measuring) However, it doesn't disrupt the flow so it is merely a point of consideration.
L3, excellent emjambment -

Yes, a thermometer is more organic a means to interpret a dance or fever or whatever, yet a visual measurement is something a person uses in a dream. Besides, charts are what thermometer readings are stored on. To make the statement this is the hottest day ever, a person not only needs to know how hot it is, the person also needs to have some sense of comparison of the temp of today to the temp of all things. Perhaps the stagnant, intellectual choice detracts from the poem. It does stick out a little in a poem where action is everywhere and drives the poem from a group of modifiers to the next group of modifiers and aciton.


sing warnings to intruders. I pause
in rehearsed mid-curve of a dip
to slip myself off; upside-down, the blue sky

Perhaps of intruders. My reasoning for this suggestion, is normally they aren't warning their preditors, but sending out warnings to the flock/family protecting nestlings- however, again a very minor point and I like the fullness of "I pause" ... The remainder of this stanza if musical--enhancing the singing of the birds, excellent use of sonics. --thank you. *smile*

With regards to the meadowlark, specifically the male meadowlark, this bird is migratory and returns to the midwest plains where they pick out their territory and sing a (complex and beautiful to humans) song TO warn away competition. This is not explained in the poem; perhaps, i should add something about this to aid the reader?
Mix the bird choice with timothy grass and meadows in general, then the location elements focus on the midwest--the location of this poem's writer. This is true even of the snowy owl that does migrate south into Minnesota.



becomes a cloudy skipping stone path
along a zen azure river bed. Something
crosses that rarefied stream; meadowlarks

Excellent imagery in this follow up stanza. As I read, I feel the gravity-less dreamscapes, I envision a child also perched on a branch, hands clenched as he/she somersaults around, flips and dangles head toward the ground, viewing this stone path nearing this peaceful, tranquil river bed. I would suggestion bringing down meadowlarks to the next stanza, but I like the way it seems to reinforce their presence, their importance, somehow to the narrator till this point, illusively setting up the scene, intensifying their worth in the poems over all correlation to the narrator, the scenery and the meadowlarks. (See above regarding the meadowlark)

scatter and fly into those rapid currents to drown,
as the timothy grass above
bows and parts like hair yielding to watery eyes. He arrives

L1, '... and fly ' felt weak. Perhaps swoop, which gives a more defined direction (as you paint an image of downward toward the currents, I would sense that swooping would be a stronger definition of the action and also bolder-as well as the enjoyable alliterative benefit between scatter and swoop. Again, you have coupled some very smooth flowing inner rhymes and sounds that compliment each other bows and parts/hair yielding ... above/bows eyes/arrives - every word seems to slide off the tongue like butter-without effort. The image it maintains is both active and still-which I felt taken to.

Absolutely, fly felt weak to me, but i couldn't come up with a word with fly and dive at the same time. Remember: the N is upside down in metaphorical dip and thus the world looks in that position upside down, so if birds take flight into the sky and upside-down the sky looks like a river, then the birds take off/dive to drown/fly. i wanted something to speak of this dislocation of the N's senses. This is part of her seeing the world differently after the fever/heat of the dance and thus losing herself. i know, too much information.


hunkered and stalking; the sun
returns to its rightful place; released, I twist and fall onto my knees.
The wind offers burning incense:


Although you probably have a very good reasoning. I felt that L2 might be improved omitting 'to it's rightful place- also in L2, knees perhaps the use of haunch/haunches/haunched such as
perhaps ...

Metaphorically, the sun drops as well, which is above, but it is below to the perception of the pose still held. i wanted her released from her 'fever' with her dance under the sun to be specific. Thus, she falls to her knees indicates that the upside-down sight is over. This falling to the knees is a moment of vulnerability in transition from the dance with the sun to the dance with her lover. Yet, i am open to some other idea that lends the reader to understanding the N's next 'shift'.

hunkered and stalking; the sun returns
released, I twist and fall haunched (a visual being falling down onto knees and palms as apposed falling on the knees and also the very nice rhyme between hunkered haunched) I love the inner weaving of rhymes and rhythm through out, as well as strong descriptors making your images work for you.


pine needles and ripened blackberries
from the undergrowth of his kinky hair.

Ok, now you bring a 'him' into it-with a very interesting introdcution...

Keep in mind that Adonis becomes/is the sub-god of vegetation and that fresh berries and pine needles come directly from Nina's poem, then you should begin to understand this choice. Now, i am rethinking pine needles since that type of tree is not deciduous.


His indefatigable arms,
with sun-kissed skin, gather me up--
wildflowers bunched to his bare chest

L2, perhaps gathers me up-- L3, perhaps against his bare chest -

in one motion; I stare at the thin scars on his stomach
while his breath--
a Snowy Owl's wingtip brushing a white rabbit--surrounds me.

L1, I would suggest omitting 'the' before thin ... L2, feels incomplete as it neithers completes a full statement from L1 or into L3, perhaps ...

in one motion; I stare at thin scars on his stomach,
animated with each breath--
a Snowy Owl's wingtip brushing a white rabbit--surrounds me.

Interesting use of 'animated'; i love it.


My shaky fingers crawl inside his hands: hands
dewy and deathless as the Earth
that receives all of us in our due turn.

Perhaps a substitute for shaky, trembling fingers crawl inside his hands: hands
dewy and deathless, as the earth
that receives us, all in our due turn. ---trembling...hmmmmmmm



We spin.

Where did you come from, O Beautiful One? The ancient capital
of Nineveh, by way of Lesbos and Sappho's revered verse,
only to descend into my arms...maybe...


I felt the various single lined actions worked well with this-'We spin." it on its own line, separated by all else gives the reader a moment to feel the motion, the sense of twirling, and gonig round in heavy, thick arms ... Yes, that is what i wanted.

The follow up stanza is truly beautiful with the mentions of Saphho's the poet of Lesbos, and how you keenly link revered verse, making this ancient glorification, of the Island of poetry. ---thank you very much.


pivoting, his dark myrrhic eyes betray his intentions,
and I feel my breasts heave and sigh, as our rush
blurs grass and sky,

This is full. Enlivening. There is a sense of unknown drama in the movement of the poem, I would suggest line break L2 after heave, bringing and sigh, as our rush blurs grass and sky.
---good idea, thanks.


until colours fracture, fall
and form iridescent steps to Aphrodite's throne. We ascend past the clouds;
I half expect feathers to tear from his back, during our dance.


L2, suggest 'to form iridescent steps to Aphrodite's throne. also perhaps ... 'We ascend the clouds; (as past isn't really necessary and doesn't add any further intention (such as for rhyme or pairing off in another point relating a specific unspoken meaning.
---i see what you're saying. Wouldn't it be we ascend TO the clouds? If so, i wouldn't want the word 'to' thrice in as many lines.


We drift.

I kiss him before he condenses and falls like rain,
returning back to the soft ground.
His blood slowly coagulates into a bed of red roses

Something other than blood. Or perhaps it is coagulates that has me feeling untouched by the line, inwhich the flow into it should stir some reaction. Perhaps ...

returning back to soft ground.
His blood slowly thickens to form a bed of red roses (or shaping into a bed of red roses or what you have is fine too. LOL)

i know, i have an issue with the use of blood in a poem, yet (per above) his blood is added with nectar and forms a new type of flower. More importantly, i wanted blood-to-red rose-to-maiden connection to add to the idea of menstruation and that reinforces the "birth-life-death-rebirth" element of this poem. i will think on thicken, though.


that are plucked
by young, barefoot maidens in flowing, virginal dresses
who have come far to worship our passing beauty.

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. ---thank you, thank you, thank you.

I wake.

The sun offers me red rows through my window in consolation;
I grin at those fresh flowers filling the kitchen vase,
while my husband, awake early, smiles coyly
and burns myrrh incense.

Perhaps (although not a big nit at all, but suggested just for rhyme use) ...
The sun bestows to me, red rows through my window, a consolation;
I grin at those fresh flowers filling the kitchen vase,
while my husband, up earlier than I, smiles coyly
and burns myrrh incense. ----i love bestow and will definitely use it. Thank you again.



Those are my thoughts on your thoughts. Lots for me to think on. Lots for me to be appreciative of. i hope this wasn't too much.

~tim/azurepoetry
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #91996 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Feb 27 07, 17:07


Laureate Legionnaire
**

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 322
Joined: 20-August 06
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Member No.: 217


Snow,
i look forward to your helpful thoughts.


Liz,
i am putting my boots on right now to go back to work (and am running late at that); i will respond late tonight, when i return. Thank you for your helpful insight,

Cheers!
~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #91989 · Replies: 21 · Views: 5,630

azurepoetry
Posted on: Feb 26 07, 18:12


Laureate Legionnaire
**

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 322
Joined: 20-August 06
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Member No.: 217


Cyn,

Yes, deserving praise, to a deserving poetess and poem. Well done!!

~tim
  Forum: ARCHIVES -> Poetry for Crit Prior to 2011 · Post Preview: #91915 · Replies: 20 · Views: 5,982

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