What is Prose?, A definition Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

What is Prose anyway?

PROSE can be defined as: The ordinary way we speak and write in sentences and paragraphs. (Examples: newspapers, magazines, letters, novels, short stories, speeches, conversations, everything except POETRY.)

Prose is the unrhymed, nonmetrical, everyday language we speak and write at any or all levels. We usually mean written language when we use the word prose, however, and we contrast prose with poetry or verse. Sometimes (but rarely) we contrast it with fiction, as well.

Inadvertent rhyme in prose, as in "Please clean the screen", can often mar a passage’s effectiveness, just as deliberate use of it is a favorite attention-getting device in advertising.
Like excessive alliteration, deliberate rhyme in prose, especially rime riche (pronounced REEM REESH), which uses two or more words pronounced and sometimes spelled alike but with different meanings (as in He’s a fishy sort, with no more soul than a sole), is of dubious merit except for jocular use.

Good prose usually avoids repetitive regular metrical patterns, just as it avoids or minimizes inadvertent rhyme, but that doesn’t mean it lacks rhythm. Avoid insistently obvious patterns, particularly overlong stretches of text, because rocking-horse regularity can be either soporific or inadvertently funny. Seek instead the variety and effectiveness of a rhythm that reinforces meaning, provides variety, and is easy and pleasant to read, silently or aloud. Parallelism, as in I came, I saw, I conquered, judicious placement of adverbs, as in Attempt the work willingly, accept its discomforts patiently, and respond to the result cheerfully, variety in lengths and kinds of sentences, as in We planned the attack with care, we committed our resources with restraint, and we controlled our zeal with patience; nonetheless, we failed, and juxtapositions of grammatical and rhetorical stress, as in with liberty and justice for all, are all examples of ways you can vary and control the rhythm of your prose.

Source: http://www.bartleby.com

[Guest_Don_*]

An interesting tack to view of what prose consists. If we were not exposed to much poetry the question of prose definition does not occur. Public education in the United States today does an excellent avoidance of poetry; therefore, most of us by way of essays and standard English writing and literature classes only know prose.

How is poetry different from prose is usually the difficult question. I have several answers, but each one has failed in their time.  It is much like asking how does a rose smell?

The aroma of a rose is subjective and depends more upon the experience than any language could hope to convey.

A poem must have rhyme.  Not if it is blank verse.  Okay, then a poem must have meter.  Not if is free verse.  Then a poem must have rhythm.  Not if it is syllabic verse.

Actually there are many features that one may read in poetic verse such as comparison, metaphor and assonance.  But sooner or later the reader is going to encounter a passage of prose and a passage of poetry that defy into which category it belongs.  

A rose can eventually loses its appealing aroma.
Do not look too closely as the pedals shall be plucked to produce a flightless bird.

May your bouquets never fade.

Don

[Guest_Martinus Julius Caesura_*]

...Then a poem must have rhythm.  Not if it is syllabic verse.

I disagree. A “cinquain” is written in syllabic meter. Are you going to suggest that cinquains inherently lack rhythm?

-Martin

[Guest_Don_*]

...Then a poem must have rhythm.  Not if it is syllabic verse.

I disagree. A “cinquain” is written in syllabic meter. Are you going to suggest that cinquains inherently lack rhythm?

-Martin

Hi friend, Martinus Julius Caesura,

I do not disagree that your example of an English cinquain contains accentual-syllabic meter.

I recently read of a new trend called "syllabic verse", which only requires syllables and I have no idea what crystal ball to apply beyond surmising new age poets are shaking the bonds of all rules as much as possible.

Forgive any unintended aura of aloofness on my part.  I am simply chagrined at the fall of beautiful language at the hands of barbarians.

Your point is perfectly taken.  I am remiss to explain/define "syllabic verse" further.


Don

[Guest_Martinus Julius Caesura_*]

...Then a poem must have rhythm.  Not if it is syllabic verse.

I disagree. A “cinquain” is written in syllabic meter. Are you going to suggest that cinquains inherently lack rhythm?

-Martin

Hi friend, Martinus Julius Caesura,

I do not disagree that your example of an English cinquain contains accentual-syllabic meter.

I recently read of a new trend called "syllabic verse", which only requires syllables and I have no idea what crystal ball to apply beyond surmising new age poets are shaking the bonds of all rules as much as possible.

Forgive any unintended aura of aloofness on my part.  I am simply chagrined at the fall of beautiful language at the hands of barbarians.

Your point is perfectly taken.  I am remiss to explain/define "syllabic verse" further.


Don

The word “meter” derives from the Greek term metron, which means “measure,” and metrical systems are distinguished by what is being “measured” (i.e., counted) in each line. There are four major kinds of “meter” in English poetry:

(1) Stress-Syllabic meter (also called Syllable-Stress meter, or Accentual-Syllabic meter) is defined in terms of both the number and the arrangement of accented (stressed) and unaccented (unstressed) syllables (measured by “accentual feet”) in a line.

(2) Stress-meter (also called Strong-Stress meter, Accentual-Stress meter, or Alliterative-Stress meter) is defined in terms of only the number of stressed syllables in a line.

(3) Syllabic meter  is defined in terms of only the number of syllables per line, without regard to stresses.

(4) Quantitative meter is defined in terms of durational rather than accentual feet—i.e., each foot consists of “long” and “short,” rather than “stressed” and “unstressed,” syllables.

Most of the metered English poems written today are in stress-syllabic meter (#1, above).

My point was that the definition of cinquain clearly places it under the heading of syllabic verse (#3, above), whose only “measure” is the number of syllables per line. While it’s true that cinquains may incorporate accentual-syllabic (i.e., “stress-syllabic”) meter, that is not a requirement.

I think that the inclusion of accentual-syllabic meter in any piece of English poetry certainly enhances the poem’s rhythm. However, syllabic meter, by itself, does have its own rhythm (though building a discernible rhythm in English strictly based upon syllable count seems to me to be about as easy as seeing your own shadow while blindfolded and locked in a dark closet on a moonless night! ).

-Martin

[Guest_Don_*]

Greetings again Martinus Julius Caesura

Apparently I do not know my basic definitions of form poems such as cinquain syllable type.

Your definition of darkness matches that of Woody Allen's as black as a black cat on a coal pile on a moonless night.  Not put into quotations for lack of remembering the exact sentence.

The conclusion is that so called syllabic verse is not new, nor "so called" because it has been around.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Don

[Guest_Calloused_*]

i believe that you are overlooking some of the most fantastic prosaic writers of all time, most specifically, Joyce.  Joyce used heavy alliteration and rhyming in a way that strengthened his writing incredibly.  Then again, as professors will constantly tell aspiring writers, Joyce was a special case.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Prose is what you choose not to call poetry.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Perry...

I'm almost with you there but I think we should exclude baked beans and Hindenburg airships at least. Oh yes and those little creatures which live with the Soup Dragon.

J.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

Prose is what you choose not to call poetry or baked beans or Hindenburg airships or those little creatures which live with the Soup Dragon.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Prose is what you choose not to call poetry.

I'll second that Perry!  :gandalfg:

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Perry,

Behind my comment was a slightly more serious point.

With respect, I disagree with your definition of poetry.

Why not say prose is what we choose not to call poetry?

Neither definition actually says anything does it?

Now, my definition of poetry is no more helpful - poetry is what the writer says it is. However, if something that I don't think is remotely poetic is posted as poetry I then ask the writer, "I accept this is poetry, as you say it is - but why do you say it's poetry?"

In a way, of course, it doesn't matter at all. But humans like classifications and sometimes it can be inconvenient if people ignore them. Also, if people post things I don't think are poetry I want to know what I'm not understanding; what new opportunities there are. etc.

One objection I took to your definition was that it suggests poetry must be in a written language. Must it? Cannot many things be (if not poetry per se) at least poetic?

If poetry is what prose isn‘t and vikky-verky then we still have no division betwixt the two. We might as well scrap the words “poetry“ and “prose“ and just use “writing“ - which might be a very good idea.

I don‘t think anything has absolutes (poetry is...) but I can‘t accept defining one in terms of the absence of t‘other - and vikky-verky again - sheds any light at all.

Thanks for the discussion.... very interesting.

J.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

James, I think I was agreeing with you when you say that poetry is poetry if you choose to call it that. In other words, prose is what you don't choose to call poetry. This assumes of course that writing is either poetry or prose.

Personally, I have problems with what sometimes purports to be poetry, because to my simple mind it looks like prose chopped up into fragments. So perhaps the question should change from 'what is prose?' to 'what is poetry?'. Unfortunately, I don't know how to answer that question, although I suspect it might have something to do with cadence and concentrated imagery.

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Perry,

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry, seems I misunderstood you, apologies.

I'm in agreement - I don't know what poetry is, either.

Mine contains no sensible R&M nor cadance - I never see these things - not in poetry nor music. (People tell me music has a rhythm but unless we're talking Status Quo, I don't get one). So I've given up on that. Pity but I haven't yet seen a poem (save two) which have rhythm and people tell me many I've seen have. It's a bit like colour blindness - it may be there - but where?

J.

[Guest_Perrorist_*]

I came across this quote just now, James, and I thought you might appreciate it:

"A dog, I have always said, is prose; a cat is a poem."  - Jean Burden

[Cleo_Serapis]

I came across this quote just now, James, and I thought you might appreciate it:

"A dog, I have always said, is prose; a cat is a poem."  - Jean Burden

Hi Perry!  :read:

This makes PUUUUURFECT sense to me!  :kitty:  :wolf:

~Cleo  :laugh:

[JLY]

What is Prose? depends on your perspective.

If you are a guy and you have a story to tell; when you are sharing this message with your guy friends it is prose.......

When you are alone with your special lady and your are telling the same story, the manner in which you tell it becomes poetic cause it has the nice sing song ring that ladies love.

JLY

[Guest_Toumai_*]

John,
You smoooth operator, you! (Are you giving away trade secrets?  ??? )

I think prose can be very rhythmically poetic ... many authors use rhythm - Jeanette Winterson, for example,  talks a great deal about rhythm when she discusses her novels. I am trying to listen to the rhythm as I write my own stories.

Fran

[Guest_Jox_*]

Hi Perry,

No wonder I don't understand rhythm if cats are involved! Or to put it another way... "Understand rhythm - me, how?"

Cheers, J.

[Ephiny]

Hello everyone!

What an interesting discussion and question!!  

For me personally, I always think of the difference between poetry and prose as..well..kind of like sharpening a pencil!!  For me, poetry is prose pared right down to the very substance of the piece (which is strange for me to say since I really need to learn how to edit properly!)  But I think sometimes, as someone made the point above with reference to Joyce, a piece of prose, can sound or feel like poetry to the reader and similarly, a poem can seem more like prose.  Sometimes I've written what I thought was a poem and realised afterwards that it works much better as a piece of prose.  But what that difference really is..it's so hard to define completely.  Does anyone else find that sometimes specific lines of a poem just stick in your head in certain times or situations?!

I remember the first poem I ever wrote..I was ten years old and it was after the very worst time of my life.  The poem itself was nothing special, not least because I thought that a poem HAD to rhyme, no matter what you needed to do to the lines or words to make it!  It was very simple but yet I still know it by heart today and when I think of it, the words still surprise me, not because they are anyway impressive but simply because what I thought/felt at the time surprises me.  Maybe what I'm trying to say about poetry is something like..a poem sort of sums up something in your mind, maybe there is more room for images to enter or for the imagination to take hold..for so many different and unique reasons.

And yet..prose can do the same thing, I think... so after waffling on and on, I haven't really made any clear point!!

PS John, I like your style!!