Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: hellfire Jul 9 09, 02:25

a heavenly feast
aromatic decadence
when daffodils smile

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Jul 9 09, 09:15

Hi HF,

Welcome to MM!!! It's great to have you with us!!! I like to write this kind of poetry too.

I usually write a haiku as 5-7-5. I notice your first line doesn't conform to that syllable count. Was it an oversight or intention? I also notice an oversight on the last line: Since "daffodils" is plural, you need to say "smile" instead of "smiles."

Again, welcome!!! It's great to have another haiku writer on board!!

Peggy

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 9 09, 10:44

Hellfire, I am all for letting go of the 5-7-5 count, as English is very different from the Japanese language; however, American ku should have a lower syllable count and should not exceed 17 syllables.

My main nit here is for the abstract vocabulary (heavenly; aromatic; decadence) which, coupled with personification (i.e. "daffodils smile), leaves little room to concrete visuals/observation. Also, I'm not sure that the tone/diction of your piece is the best for haiku, which are more informal. Here are a few examples from the Japanese masters:

Buson:

Flowers offered to the Buddha
come floating
down the river.

Morning breeze
riffling
the caterpillar's hair.

Notice the sensorial aspects at play, touch/movement/sight.

Basho:

A petal shower
of mountain roses
and the sound of the rapids.

Issa:

The snow is melting
and the village is flooded
with children.

(Here's a "response" to your snowman poem..hehe)

Posted by: hellfire Jul 9 09, 11:58

hi peggy

thanks for welcoming me.
i have made some changes as per suggestion.
much appreciated.hope it reads better now.

cheers

hellfire

Posted by: hellfire Jul 9 09, 12:02

hi mark

thanks for the info.
i am learning as i go along.
made some changes regarding the sylable count.
i promise you my next haiku will be nothing but visual observations.
thanks once again for all the help.much appreciated

cheers


hellfire

Posted by: Arnfinn Jul 13 09, 04:23

G'day HF,

a heavenly feast
aromatic decadence
when daffodils smile


I like the images created.

Now look at this haiku: by Perdita Finn.


a fingernail moon:
all that is left in the sky
after the blizzard


Now, what has the poet created.

1st Identify the subject. Line one.
2nd define in a poetic way a central statement. Line 2.
3rd A final thought. Line 3.

Keep the above in mind using a syllable count of 5/7/5 then write your Haiku.

Not finnished yet.

1 write your Haiku. 2 Check the S/count (dictionary, Websters is a good choice).
3 Re-write and produce a poem that is a spiritual journey.
Haiku is one of the traditional arts of Zen practice, one must not deviate from the
spiritual essence of the poetry form. The poet should write Haiku as a type of
thoughtful meditation.

Rgards,

John

Posted by: Marc-Andre Germain Jul 16 09, 07:19

I have to disagree with John on two points here:

1 - The English haiku should be under 17 syllables, but doesn't need to conform to the Japanese syllable count 5-7-5. Japanese and English are different languages, with different syntax. Pronouns and prepositional phrases in Japanese are optional in a way they couldn't be in English. Pronunciation also differs. For example, there are no diphthongs in Japanese, long vowels are formed by an additional vowel character (and therefore an additional syllable).

Follow the HSA link below, then go to the collections to see modern haiku in the English language.


2 - The haiku is written by the juxtaposition of two fragments. The Japanese haiku consists of a) the kigo, i.e. a reference to season and/or time a day in the first or third line, and a two-line observation. Both the traditional Japanese haiku and the HSA make no distinction between haiku and senryu, as humans are considered to be part of nature. What matters in a haiku is the presentation of a concrete, real visual. Personification and abstract language do not belong to the haiku. The second link below is a great source of information on the haiku writing techniques.


Here are some links that should be helpful:

http://www.hsa-haiku.org/

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiartjr.htm

Posted by: Arnfinn Jul 17 09, 05:45

G'day Marc,

Thank you for your remarks RE: Haiku.

I prefer to have members new to Haiku form, or new to writing poetry for that matter to

start with 5/7/5 syllable style.

Lonnie Hull DuPont, 'Footprints in the Snow', from 'The Haiku Box.' Sums things
up as follows.

Briefly, haiku has a specific form and rules, the most popular known one being that a haiku
has seventeen syllables, divided into three lines of five, seven, and five syllables. It also must have
some specific reference to nature, though it is not exactly about nature.

Let's begine to familarize our selves with haiku by looking at a translation of haiku by the the Japenese
poet Mizuta Masahide from the seventeenth century.

Now that my storehouse
has burned down, nothing >>> here, is your English translation, naturally out on S/C.
conceals the moon.

Lonnie Hull Dupont continues

Here's a haiku written in English and true to form, from poet Wally Swist:

stopping in my steps...
a bird who seems to know me
calling from the pines

A couple more, these from American haiku master, Clark Strand:

a white butterfly
disappears in a sun shaft
on the rocky trail

rain at the windows--
how many more ants before
the end of summer

Marc, each of the Haiku's written in English spotlights one moment in seventeen
syllables.

This, is the type of poetry I want to see created by MM members.


Dupont's 'The Haiku Box'

Is available from the website below.


http://www.insight-books.com/ARC1/9781582900308/1582900302.html?PHPSESSID=66b2c7d3d67c49cfa35519e94556634a

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Jul 19 09, 08:14

we have a discussion forum (Alexandria's Library) that I have moved some of the posts into from this thread.

Here is the URL to it.
http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/index.php?showtopic=13575

Thank you!
~Lori

Posted by: prerna bala Jul 22 09, 05:25

the second line confuses me , because i do not understand how the aroma of decadent smiling daffodils can be a heavenly feast, am i missing something here ?