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Posted by: Eisa Sep 16 09, 16:32

large eyes flutter
among echinachea blooms -
peacock butterfly

Posted by: ace Sep 16 09, 17:56

Eisa:

Beautiful picture..beautiful lines.
One reall chincy comment: the first line has, I believe, only four syllables where in the haiku structure five are needed. "Large dark eyes flutter"?

ace

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Sep 17 09, 08:58

Hi Snow,

Lovely picture is right! WOW!!!!!

I'm not concerned about the number of beats per line however, I wonder if you can insert a season in the last line instead of telling us what the picture (already does) to an extent: peacock butterfly Can you relate the summer season instead somehow, with something we might envision while walking through the garden (as an idea) or a juxtaposition to those 'eyes'?

Cheers
~Cleo

Posted by: Larry Sep 17 09, 14:16

Hello Snow,

Loved the picture and the haiku. I, too, have felt that the structure of 5-7-5 to be the criteria for a haiku but now, I have to admit I was dead wrong. At least as far as the syllable count is concerned. In tradational Haiku, the poem should have seventeen "morae" and that has absolutely nothing to do with "syllables". I have, over the years, written about 300 haiku and senyru and maintained that 5-7-5 structure in all of them. I WAS WRONG!!!!!!! (Sorry Steve.)

Just a suggestion but as Lori mentioned, some juxtaposition is needed. Perhaps:

Peacock butterfly
echinachea in bloom
large eyes flutter

Take or toss!

Oh, on the seasonal aspect of the haiku; the coneflower (echinacea) begins to bloom in late spring and that is also about the time the Peacock Butterflies emerge to feed.

Again, loved it.

Larry

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Sep 17 09, 15:10

I've also heard the syllables be referred to as Onji : In traditional Japanese, the haiku was often written in one long string, from top to bottom, using 17 onji (sound-symbols), the shortest unit of meaning. These onji were usually divided into 3 sections, with the middle one being slightly longer than the others; a pause at the end of the first or second section often divided the haiku into two thoughts or images which contrasted or combined to make a striking perception, usually involving nature. Some call this the Haiku Moment.

More tidbits from the web:
Early translators, assuming that onji equaled syllables in our language (they do not), decided the English equivalent should be 3 lines containing 5-7-5 syllables respectively. Many poets still look for haiku in that pattern, though occasionally today’s verses may have from 1 to 5 lines and a varying number of syllables. Not all classical Japanese haiku had 17 onji, let alone 17 “syllables,” so if we insist on that pattern, it is out of habit, not out of respect for the original.

~L

Posted by: Peggy Carpenter Harwood Sep 18 09, 07:51

Hi Snow,

I like the haiku, but don't particularly like the word "large." It isn't pretty or expressive or original enough to my taste, but that may just be my failing. I'd like a word like "unique" or "piquant" or "soulful" or something a little less cliched and lack lustered in my opinion.

Great picture!!!

Peggy

Posted by: Thoth Sep 18 09, 08:39

Hi snow,

very inspiring, especially the photo!

To address some of the nits mentioned perhaps something like;

Blue eyes aflutter
among echinachea blooms -
where peacocks alight.

Hugs,

Wally

Posted by: ohsteve Sep 19 09, 20:12

Snow very lovely picture and poem. I no longer believe that hiaku needs 5-7-5 have given way to other things as Lori stated.

Steve

Posted by: 4rum Dec 7 09, 07:36

Ya know, this little visit and this little poem and the gi-normous (it's now a word ... look it up), portent of the discussion has me in a mell of a hess. I'm terribly ignorant about form poetry, can't write free verse, but not willing to give up ... sigh ... what's a body to do?

I think that form poetry should have discipline but everytime I study or research a form I find that someone has deviated and named it something else or has found basis to rely on interpretation.

When I attempt haiku, I write in the 5-7-5 count. That has caused me to toss some of my best attempts into the trash ... shame on me, no, really, shame on me. I allow myself alllllllll kinds of latitude when doing humorous poems, but I sincerely felt inside that I should honor the old masters. I should first learn in a discipline then explore other facets. I admit, for some time I would not accept anything but 5-7-5 as haiku and felt the author should just call it something else. I too, was wrong and apologize to anyone who understood so much more than I, so much earlier than I.

I will probably stick to the 5-7-5 until I write at least one poem I consider haiku (for myself). More likely, I'll resort to limerick, a form that not only allows disobedience but encourages it!

If I may, I'd also like to wish each of you a Merry Christmas.

'rum