acorns(revised 24th August), haiku Options

[Terocon101]

Revision

a falling acorn
into the shaded flow
muddy roots

Amended

by the river
acorns
roots in the muddy flow

void
by the river
acorns
roots in the flow
.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Terry,

A pleasant image here that offers a soothing calmness to my psyche for some reason. I'm headed to the pond across the road in a bit and will think of this poem while I'm there enjoying the scenes and sounds.

SInce haiku is so restrictive on word choice and syll counts, I suggest trying to find substitutes that further describe the river and the roots (to replace 'the' and 'in' as they tend to appear more as filler words.

A few ideas to mull over are:

By the river (where, at the edge which tells the reader where on the river we are to imagine : By the river's edge)
acorns (what about these acorns? Are they bobbing in the water, are they strewn across the soil, are chipmunks in sight collecting them?: squirrels pluck bobbing acorns )
roots in the flow (acorns are rooted in the current of the pull?: rooted in the flow)

Hope this helps!
~Cleo

[Terocon101]

Hi Cleo, I'm glad you enjoyed, and the thought of you by the pond, pondering my ku brought a smile to my face.

BTW. Sorry I actually forgot to include a word that was in my original notes for this : 'muddy'

by the river
acorns
roots in the muddy flow

I came across this scene in a beautiful wooded area which is near enough to my home that I can walk there in about an hour. A little bit of poetic license is used, as it was a chestnut tree's roots(and chestnuts) in the flow, but I thought the oak more complimentary for the image, its longevity and strength are useful here as it battles to hold onto the bank while the river erodes away the earth from its roots.

I'm afraid, as always, I've taken a nice simple natural image and instilled some pathetic fallacy and metaphor into it. But it's one of the things I love about haiku, the parallels between nature and (un)civilization can be played out so beautifully subtle, yet straight to the point.

The main factors in this one are the eroding earth , the immovable oak the unstoppable river and the perilously poised potential of the acorns.

I know this one might take some effort to make it work and I'm very grateful to you for highlighting the places where it is failing/ or rather where I am failing. Although wouldn't 'roots in the flow' suggest a river bank setting?
I also tried to keep the number of images(river/acorns/roots) to a minimum as well as the adjectives(muddy) and verbs(flow).

As always, I'd be delighted if you've any more suggestions along the way, as this may take some time to get right.

Possible revision.

acorns
by the river
roots in a muddy flow

Best Wishes

.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello T.

Well, for starters, can you think of words that you just replied to me with that you can incorporate into the haiku? The erosion of the earth - maybe the acorns are falling into a gap in the river bank and the roots have 'caught them' bouncing them back into the river to float/bob in the movement (think of adjectives here) or perhaps bouncing them onto land to root into the soil and become the mighty oak? So I assume you aren't going with the traditional 5/7/5?

Be back again!
~Cleo

[Terocon101]

Cleo, yeah I'm gonna try find a way to make this work, in my short experience writing them I've been in this kinda stalemate a few times, sometimes it flows but every now and again it's a bit of a battle, you know yourself. The words always come eventually, he lied to himself unconvincingly.

Maybe focusing on just one acorn would work better. And if it's falling into the river it will suggest the oak and its proximity to the river. I think 'muddy' kind of suggests erosion, but for L3 I'm at a loss as to how to bring the roots in, it's important because I want the oak in a precarious position. Maybe 'roots' is the wrong angle altogether, branches, leaves.........

falling acorn
to the muddy flow
oak leaves

Thats a bit of a different meaning than I wanted but 'leaves' works as noun/verb. Ummm..

5/7/5...no, from what I've been seeing from contemporary English writers, I think that rule is more for the Japanese language. If a seventeen syllable English haiku was translated into Japanese it would probably use twenty or more syllables. I think I learned that here.
But I'll probably write a few 5/7/5 eventually or maybe by accident, hehe.

But I'm sticking to all the rest of the rules though. Phrase and fragment, show not tell, kigo/season and nature themes and subjects, no more than 3 images, not too many adjectives, verbs are a bit of a gray area. But as soon as you think you have it figured out, some other rule pops up, like double kigos, direct metaphors and god-knows what else...

I've been surfing the ol' web and a few different haiku sites, so maybe in another ten-fifteen years I'll start to get the hang of it. LOL

But then of course there's my favorite rule....'Rules are there to be broken' LOL

I'm gonna try a bit of SQ revision, chat you later.

Best wishes

.

[JustDaniel]

Hey, Terry...

How about something like this... if you don't mind my characteristic twists:


acorns
root along the bank;
muddy river waves

Lightly, Daniel

[Terocon101]

Hi Daniel,

I'll be back, not much time to reply at the moment but I really like your ideas here and will be revising asap.

Cheers

.

[JustDaniel]

I think your last revison, Terry, presents some entirely different impressions ?

It's my impression that when one works on a haiku, revising it, one works to clarify the original impression that was felt when the haiku was fostered. However, from that vantage point, of course other impressions may well flow... but as they flow they drift further from the original impression... unless they're caught in the eddy of the original acorn, methinks.

Lightly prodding, Daniel


_{a corn ball
gets edgy a long river;
cast tomatoes root}

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hey Terry,

FANTASTIC!

This really seems to 'flow' much more in my own mindset - nice job!

~Cleo

[Terocon101]

I think your last revison, Terry, presents some entirely different impressions ?

It's my impression that when one works on a haiku, revising it, one works to clarify the original impression that was felt when the haiku was fostered. However, from that vantage point, of course other impressions may well flow... but as they flow they drift further from the original impression... unless they're caught in the eddy of the original acorn, methinks.

Lightly prodding, Daniel


_{a corn ball
gets edgy a long river;
cast tomatoes root}

Hey Daniel,

Umm...Yeah, I agree, definitely. Although I admit my aha moment is a little vague in this one, I hope it still conveys my original thoughts upon coming across this scene:
A mature oak on the bank of a river(on the edge), exposed roots(unstable), acorns scattered,some surely fell into the river although I did not witness this.Nature's struggle for life.

But I don't like to close off windows of interpretation, especially if there was a particular one which was working that I was unaware of... I know 'roots' was working as a noun/verb(roots of the oak and acorn roots), I think that's still viable... ... I'm not sure of what it could be that I've overlooked.

Looking at your edit, which I do like, I wanted to focus on the oak tree a bit more, reasons as stated above. Even though I coulndt mention the oak because that would be too much for a ku, so I suggested it with shaded and the falling acorn.

Sorry if something was lost in this ones evolution...

Best Wishes

.

[Terocon101]

Hey Terry,

FANTASTIC!

This really seems to 'flow' much more in my own mindset - nice job!

~Cleo

Hello again Cleo,

It's hectic around here lately eh? Loads of good poetry and good people, I wonder do those two correlate?? LOL, Don't answer that...

Thanks for your response and all your help with this one. I really got flustered with it there at times, it's definitely a bit more polished now. Still, I haven't felt that 'click' that tells me it's all fallen into place, but sometimes that never comes I suppose.

I think the image is there, I just think I've left TOO much work up to the reader this time, for them to get it. Maybe thats a bit condescending, LOL.

Cheers again!!

.

[Eisa]

Nice revision Terry

Snow

[JustDaniel]

I fully agree with the others that this is a fine revision. Please note that I was not EDITing your piece, but merely, as I very often do... utilize some of your words differently to emphasize one or more of the perspectives that you seem to have indicated. The purpose of that ALWAYS is to give the original author the opportunity to see his/her own work through the eyes of another for a possible change or for cementing the author more firmly in the original use or another perspective that occurs in the process. It's always up to the author.

This post has been edited by JustDaniel: Aug 31 07, 19:03

[Cleo_Serapis]

Daniel - please post your poem in the faux-ku thread in Karnak so as NOT to distract from Terry's poem in his thread.

[JaxMyth]

For a proper haiku Terry, there should be a kigo or season word that establishes when the poem was set. The kigo is followed by the fragment. As in all things the 'rules' are made to be broken *smile*. Jane Reichhold has some marvelous links here.

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm

Regards,

Jax

[Terocon101]

For a proper haiku Terry, there should be a kigo or season word that establishes when the poem was set. The kigo is followed by the fragment. As in all things the 'rules' are made to be broken *smile*. Jane Reichhold has some marvelous links here.

http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm

Regards,

Jax

Hi Jax,

Yes I'm a big fan of breaking the rules every so often but not in this attempt. I think Autumn is suggested by the falling acorns, although that may depend your longitude/latitude, I do try to keep it simple as possible.
I dislike mentioning the seasons directly, as it gets boring in such a short form and it's nice to leave a bit of work for my enduring reader

PS. Thank you for the link. I am always interested in reading up on the subject. If you've any other good ones don't hesitate in sending them my direction.

Best wishes

.

[Lady Poet]

a falling acorn
into the shaded flow
muddy roots 

Hi Terry!

I concur with everyone else your revision is most excellent. I caught the seasonal influence...but then...I live in the south with millions of oak trees...lol. Great job!

(((Hugs))) Pami xoxox

[Terocon101]

LOL, Hi again Pami,

Sorry it has taken so long to reply.

I look forward to your critique as they are so good for my ego, LOL. Kidding...

Delighted you enjoyed this one, it was not the easiest one I've written so it's nice to know the effort was worth it. Although "it is it's own reward", as Seamus Heaney says.

Also, while I remember, and because we're not supposed to post expressions of mere gratitude, I'll piggy-back this post and say a big thank-you to Cleo and Daniel for their help and thank Snow and Jax for their comments, you too Pami. (Look 4 hands!!! )


Best Wishes


.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Terry,

I'm fuzzy on your above comment, "we're not supposed to post expressions of mere gratitude". Of course you can, and we encourage that feedback wherever possible.

I very much enjoy this poem, whether it officially meets the params or not (and I cannot say as I'm a noob to this form too), who cares! It is a wonderful image you've created that lingers. And that is the intent of our forum - to wake your muse and create wonderful expressions with words.

You've done so here with seeming ease!
~Cleo