A Natural Aphrodisiac, senryu Options

[Maggie]

A Natural Aphrodisiac

Gardenias' fragrance
wafting on summer breezes
heightens love's passion.

Peggy Carpenter Harwood

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Peggy,

Glad to see you posting again here! We have a new forum now specifically for short forms such as this one (forms with 7 lines or less) two forums down from Herme's Homilies. It's called Shogun's Psalms and I'm going to move this post there for you - but before I do, I wanted to let you know that's where this one is going.

Shogun's Psalms

Thanks and cheers! See you over there!
~Cleo

[JustDaniel]

Great to see you again, Peggy; it's been a while!

Lovely picture here! Not sure why you consider this a senryu rather than haiku, but I'll be interested in knowing. There are so many many perspectives, it seems, on these little beauties that I find myself convinced one way, and then another, and then back and then... !

Anyhow,I like to do a little gardening now and then, and in fact Eileen has just come in the house excitedly with an armful of her first crop of vegetables, including our first yellow tomato... but let me do a few snips here and there to see if it fits your perspective?

I do like the title, even though I understand they don't normally have them... but of course you're entitled in my book.

A Natural Aphrodisiac

Gardenias' fragrance
wafting on summer breezes
heightens love's passion.

Peggy Carpenter Harwood

gardenia fragrance
wafts higher on a hot breeze
love's passion

clipping Lightly, Daniel

[Maggie]

Hi Cleo,

Thanks for the "Welcome" and for moving my poem!!

Peggy

[Maggie]

Hi Just Daniel,

Thanks for the "Welcome" and thanks for the comments.

I considered this a senryu because the reading I've done indicates that haikus are not ever about people but about nature. Senryu, I've gathered from reading, is about human nature. What do you think?

Also, I like your poem at the end of your post, but I'm not sure why you rearranged my word order. Mine was 5-7-5 and in a sentence with the nugget about human nature at the end. What are the requirements for a poem such as I'm trying to write in your opinion?

Peggy

[JustDaniel]

Greetings, Peggy

I'm not the resident expert here on haiku/senryu, and I've changed my perspective even more since reading laryalee's Haiku: New Perspectives in Karnak here... and though I'm still quite confused over the huge number of perspectives on these little three- (or two- or one-) line poems, I'm very much interested in slowly learning more in the process of sharing here. Read through the discussion that takes place there, and that may help answer your query.

But generally speaking, and this is merely a rule of thumb that I personally utilize... that's been helpful to me: USUALLY a haiku/senryu has two snapshots. USUALLY it is not a complete sentence but two perspectives of the same aha moment.

You'll also see that the 5-7-5 (OR LESS) rule, though initially helpful in learning this form, is an occidental invention that may not quite fit the oriental parameters... but again, it's a good starting point.

hoping that I haven't done more than sLightly confusing you, Daniel

[Maggie]

Hi Daniel,

You're right. I'm only slightly confused now. Ha! I just looked at the article you recommended and will see what I can come up with!!

Thank you for your help!!

Peggy

[Terocon101]

Gardenias' fragrance
wafting on summer breezes
heightens love's passion.

Hi Peggy,

A pleasure to meet you..and to read your poem.

Lovely scene you've set here. I think maybe it could withstand a little nip/tuck in places and still be quite fragrant. If you dont mind losing the 5/7/5.

Gardenias
on a summer breeze
lovers breathe deep

LOL, I always liked that word, 'wafting' but I think a lot of the words are saying the same thing in your original. Merely saying Gardenias, suggests fragrance/image(maybe even season).

Hope you find some use for that, if not, well... I enjoyed responding

[Maggie]

Gardenias' fragrance
wafting on summer breezes
heightens love's passion.

Hi Peggy,

A pleasure to meet you..and to read your poem.

Lovely scene you've set here. I think maybe it could withstand a little nip/tuck in places and still be quite fragrant. If you dont mind losing the 5/7/5.

Gardenias
on a summer breeze
lovers breathe deep

LOL, I always liked that word, 'wafting' but I think a lot of the words are saying the same thing in your original. Merely saying Gardenias, suggests fragrance/image(maybe even season).

Hope you find some use for that, if not, well... I enjoyed responding

[Maggie]

Gardenias' fragrance
wafting on summer breezes
heightens love's passion.

Hi Peggy,

A pleasure to meet you..and to read your poem.

Lovely scene you've set here. I think maybe it could withstand a little nip/tuck in places and still be quite fragrant. If you dont mind losing the 5/7/5.

Gardenias
on a summer breeze
lovers breathe deep

LOL, I always liked that word, 'wafting' but I think a lot of the words are saying the same thing in your original. Merely saying Gardenias, suggests fragrance/image(maybe even season).

Hope you find some use for that, if not, well... I enjoyed responding

Hi Terocon,

Thanks for your imput!!! I enjoyed reading your variation!! I kinda want to keep the 5-7-5, I think!

Peggy

[4rum]

Dear Peggy;

For the most part I tend to agree with the stance you have chosen, except for the title. I too read that Haiku/Senryu are more generally accepted as not having titles. The title is accused of adding another line to the poem as it conveys more image than is contained in the three alone.

These VERY popular short forms always bring a lively discussion. I reallly enjoy reading everyone's enterpretation of someone's intent. But like you I'm always a little confused.

Can I enjoy a poem if it does not strictly adhere to the perscribed form... yes. Do I feel that the strictest of discipline should always be followed... NO.

In my opinion ... enforcement of form, style, grammar or spelling is important BUT... the suppression of creativity and originality is the greater ignorance.

Thanks for a lovely poem and a lively discussion.

[Maggie]

Dear Peggy;

For the most part I tend to agree with the stance you have chosen, except for the title. I too read that Haiku/Senryu are more generally accepted as not having titles. The title is accused of adding another line to the poem as it conveys more image than is contained in the three alone.

These VERY popular short forms always bring a lively discussion. I reallly enjoy reading everyone's enterpretation of someone's intent. But like you I'm always a little confused.

Can I enjoy a poem if it does not strictly adhere to the perscribed form... yes. Do I feel that the strictest of discipline should always be followed... NO.

In my opinion ... enforcement of form, style, grammar or spelling is important BUT... the suppression of creativity and originality is the greater ignorance.

Thanks for a lovely poem and a lively discussion.

Hi 4rum,

Thanks so much for your imput. I'm glad you like my attempt!! Actually, I do too. I've read so many articles on senryu I've become more accepting of variations. The articles don't all agree. Ha!

Thanks again so much for reading and for your thoughts!!

Peggy

[JustDaniel]

Please note that I like your 'attempt' too... and it is FAR MORE than an ATTEMPT. It is a genuine haiku/senryu, no matter how you look at it.

4rum is right about the title, of course. I think your piece is MUCH stronger without it. It leaves the reader with a greater possibility of diving into the feeling, the impression you're writing about.

I agree about the confusion too. Most of the articles don't agree, mostly because they're all coming from a slightly different persuasion regarding sticking with the 'original intent' and history of the form. ALL forms migrate with their usage, and I see no reason for American haiku not to migrate even further... and they have. But there is no real agreement about WHERE they've migrated, 'cause there are pockets of this and that all over creation.

I no longer see any need to stick to the 5-7-5 myself. Some don't even stick to the three lines. [ Evidently the Japanese form was in one line somewher along the line ? ]
I haven't gone there yet myself, but I still have a LOT to learn... and for me, the breadth and depth of that comes very slowly.

in Light of the journey, Daniel

[Guest_Rosemerta_*]

Greetings Peggy,

I don't want to offend anyone's senses here but I thought you had it right on the nose with this senyru. I had a dear friend who was an expert in writing beutiful haiku and senyru and you explained it just as he or I would. Times tend to change the rules to suit the purpose of the day but there's nothing wrong with sticking to what works.

I thought this was beautifully done and wouldn't change a thing.

~~ Jackie

[JustDaniel]

... I don't want to offend anyone's senses....

Hey, Jackie...

in a forum like this, I don't think that any of our offerings are meant to offend anyone's senses, 'cause we're merely offering our own perspectives on our compatriots' work (because we've each requested that)... allowing the writer to move over a degree or two and adopt ours, to go several degrees further because of our nudge but opt for yet another, turn around 180^o and switch things about still further, or just stay put and/or change a word or two, or adjust a punctuation mark...

It's all about offering each others' works through our own eyes to give the author a chance to see something they might want to do to improve it through theirs. I don't think any of us want to say that our perspective is better... but only different... and that's an advantage each of us can take as others share theirs with us.

I always remind folks: I cannot see me! I need your eyes to tell me what they see!

Honestly, sometimes I don't like what they see... but it almost always helps me decide whether I need adjustments...

both to ME and to my poetry!

deLighting always in the pleasantness that both of you share, Daniel

This post has been edited by JustDaniel: Jul 23 07, 18:18

[Maggie]

Greetings Peggy,

I don't want to offend anyone's senses here but I thought you had it right on the nose with this senyru. I had a dear friend who was an expert in writing beutiful haiku and senyru and you explained it just as he or I would. Times tend to change the rules to suit the purpose of the day but there's nothing wrong with sticking to what works.

I thought this was beautifully done and wouldn't change a thing.

~~ Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Thank you for the vote of confidence!

Peggy

[Maggie]

Hi Just Daniel,

I appreciate your honest and helpful feedback, but I am not to the level of skill on this type of poetry to make many variations. I do like having no title though. I have never been pleased with any title I've given to a senryu/haiku.

Thank you especially for the update on the form in historical terms. It sounds kind of like a language. A language develops, and so do some poetry forms.

Peggy

[JustDaniel]

I appreciate your honest and helpful feedback, but I am not to the level of skill on this type of poetry to make many variations. I do like having no title though. I have never been pleased with any title I've given to a senryu/haiku.

All of us are at different levels and have the opportunity to reach in all directions -- up and down and around and around -- for help, and can pick and choose at will. I deeply appreciate the opportunity this site gives us to do just that. There is something here for anyone interested in improving his/her craft. That is a certainty.

Thank you especially for the update on the form in historical terms. It sounds kind of like a language. A language develops, and so do some poetry forms. ~ Peggy

That is a good analogy, from my standpoint. I love the differing shades of our own "English" in the UK, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Ireland and the US... and in other places like Jamaica and all over the world... and in EACH of those places the different dialects of the one language in that country. It's kind of amazing, with all of those differences, that we could expect ONE perspective about haiku/senryu... especially as the interest in this ancient form again heightens AND SPREADS all over the world.

deLighting again in the interchange here, Daniel