The Choice *** Revision VI, Rondeau/Iambic Options

[Luce]

The Choice - Revision VI

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues.
The other - dark - is sharp with thorns
that claw the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One way is filled with joy's sweet dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other marked with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use.
And yet, the way that’s marred, forlorn
may make a noble life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision V

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues.
The other - dark - is sharp with thorns
that claw the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One way is filled with joy's sweet dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other marked with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use.
And yet, the way that’s marred, forlorn
may form an august life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision IV

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world a brilliant blue.
The other - dark - is sharp with thorns
that claw the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One way is filled with joy's sweet dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other marked with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use.
And yet, the way that’s marred, forlorn
may form an august life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision III

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world a brilliant blue.
The other - dark - is sharp with thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One way is filled with champagne dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other marked with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use.
And yet, the way that’s marred, forlorn
may form an august life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision II

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world a brilliant blue.
The other is dark, sharp with thorns
that rakes the heart until it’s torn
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One road is filled with champagne dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other - marked - with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use
Yet, the way that’s marred and forlorn
may lead to a brave life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other has life thick with thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom
in lilac scents and sunset hues.
The other has fogs soaked in scorn
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But the path that’s marred, deeply bruised
leads to an august life reborn
by fighting fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Original

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other is thick with diamond thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom
in lilac scents and sunset hues.
The second has fogs sodden with scorn
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
if I pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But, the one that’s dark and deeply bruised
could lead to an august life reborn
by facing fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

[Eisa]

I really like the theme here, Luce. Do we choose the easy path or the rocky one. It's a poem about life.

I've only written one rondeau - everything I start in R&M always ends as a sonnet! I can't remember the precise line rules, but the one I wrote had 8 syllables per line. Some of your lines have 9 syllables. I'll leave it to the rondeau experts to follow that up an come back to this later when I'm more sure of what I'm doing.

Happy New Year!

Eira

The Choice

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other is thick with diamond thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom
in lilac scents and sunset hues.
The second has fogs sodden with scorn
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
if I pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But, the one that’s dark and deeply bruised
could lead to an august life reborn
by facing fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

Luce

[/quote]

[Luce]

Thanks Eira. I'm glad you like the Rondeau. I got the info. for the form from this site Rondeau and they only mentioned that it is typically written in tetrameter or pentameter. They didn't mention a syllable restriction. However they did say that the "meter was open". Unfortunately, I don't know what that means. Does anyone know?

Nevertheless, after doing some quick research some sources do say that a Rondeau is written in 8 or 10 syllable lines.

Well, counting syllables is definitely easier then worrying about meter. Therefore, I've revised the Rondeau to at least meet the basic 8 syllable requirement of the form. I also did a 4 beat line count besides doing some word changes.

Luce

[Eisa]

Great revision, Luce This reads really smoothly now. The only place I stumbled is L3 here

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But the path that’s marred, deeply bruised
leads to an august life reborn
by fighting fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

perhaps

[But] the path that’s marred is deeply bruised

Eira

[Larry]

Hi Luce,

I saw this earlier but was tied up with a few other things and being used to the minimal participation, even with the influx of new people from your old site, felt there was time to return and lend a hand with your questions and some critique if necessary. I’m no expert with the form (forms- there are numerous ones with numerous parameters), you would have to tap the brains of either Merlin or Daniel for real expertise, but in this particular instance, the one referenced in Karnak has the 15 line format with the rhyme scheme of: a,a,b,b,a a,a,b,R a,a,b,b,a,R with “R” being the first line and the Refrains.

it is typically written in tetrameter or pentameter. They didn't mention a syllable restriction

Tetrameter and Pentameter are terms which let you know how many syllables are in each line; Tetra – four metric feet – da dum, da dum, da dum, da dum. ( iambic tetrameter) Penta – five metric feet – da dum, da dum, da dum, da dum, da dum (iambic pentameter)
There are two syllables in each metric foot therefore, the instructions inform you that tetra has 8 syllables and penta has 10. As far as “the meter is open”, Lori wrote the instructions for this so you might ask her what she meant but I assume that you may use whatever meter you wish and it is open to your discretion, whether penta, tetra or if you are feeling adventuresome, you could go with heptameter or hexameter (6 or 7 metric feet per line).

counting syllables is definitely easier then worrying about meter

When counting your syllables, you are, in fact, worrying about which meter you are using but perhaps you didn’t know the term for that meter which you chose.

Hope this brief explanation of metrics helps a bit.

Now for the critique of “The Choice”.

The thing I noticed in your first stanza was “a, a, b, b, R” and not the required “a, a, b, b, a”. The Refrains should be at the ends of the second and third stanza but not in the first. You need a new line 5 for the first stanza. Well, you don’t actually need a new one but in order for it to be a true Rondeau in the classic format, you may want to write one. I also see you used the complete first line instead of a portion thereof for each Refrain which is okay to do. I like them better when each Refrain is shortened for impact upon reiteration.

I’ll start with the rhyme scheme:
S1 - You began fine with choose – blues and your thorns – torn is okay too, I’m just not real enamored with mixing plural/singular rhymes and the last line as I said above needs to be changed from the Refrain to something else.
a choose
a blues
b thorns
b torn
a (choose) ?

S2 – bloom should rhyme with chose, blues, hues, etc.. It is possible that you wanted to use the long “oo” in choose and bloom as an inner rhyme. I don’t know.

a bloom (rhymes with what?)
a hues
b scorn
R choose

S3 – lose and smooth have only inner rhyme properties utilizing the long “oo” sound as in S2. bruised should rhyme with reborn for the “b, b” requirement in the rhyme scheme. In its present tense instead of your past tense usage, “bruise” would be another “a” rhyme and using truth to rhyme with lose and smooth is a bit of a stretch with the long “oo” sound used once again.


a lose
a smooth
b bruised
b reborn
a truth
R choose


Now I’ll try to put a little metrical and punctuation critique to the side of each line of poetry.

The Choice - Revision

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other has life thick with thorns
da dah, da da dah, da da dah (anapestic meter) two unaccented followed by an accented syllable.
perhaps - (the other’s way is thick with thorns)
that rake the heart until it’s torn. (which pierce the heart ‘till blood adorns)
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom (One road replete with dreams in bloom) Crammed is such a harsh word for dreams.
in lilac scents and sunset hues. (lilac scent – there is only one)(comma at the end)
The other has fogs soaked in scorn (no cap) (the other fogged and soaked in scorn)(period end stop)
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe and smooth. to use.
But the path that’s marred, deeply bruised
da da dah, da dah, da da dah “anapestic – iambic – anapestic”
Perhaps: (One that will mar and bruise adorn) – Takes care of metrics and rhyme scheme.
leads to an august life reborn
by fighting fears with love and truth. , refuse – (use enjambment to the next line “refuse two paths ahead.”
Two paths ahead, which one to choose? – then start a new sentence. Which one to choose?

This is the best I can do and you may take or toss any or all of it. They are all just suggestions.

Larry

[Merlin]

Hi Luce,
I saw me mentioned above, so decided to make a quick appearance. You state "However they did say that the "meter was open". Unfortunately, I don't know what that means. Does anyone know?", which is what I'll try and answer.

If the meter is open, you may use any speed you wish... iambic is among the most popular. However, do one in anapest and see what that result brings. I'll need to rummage thru my files to see what I did once, something is niggling me there. That said, you don't even need to do meter should you prefer to do an un-metered version. It's all up to you.

Larry mentions what may well be the most common form of Rondeau. There are off-shoots of this one, and the Tennyson Rondeau is one example. Others abound. You likely know Leigh Hunt's Jenny Kissed Me which is an 8-line Rondeau, repeating the opening as the final line. There are very many different ones, some called rondel or roundel, double rondeau, and on and on. You're completely free to do the one most pleasing to yourself, and something different if the standard becomes boring. Example, Eustache Deschamps has the refrain line in 1-6-11 out of a 13-line Rondeau. Gopher it!

Merlin


Edit>>>
I found it, no longer in active file but on backup. This goes back at least 10 yrs as it is in the book. You'll note different meter used.

Dear Abigail

Pass the whisky, friend, and hear my tale –
I’ll tell you things that’ll make you quail:
how I fought like a pirate near old Shanghai
how I lost my finger, one ear and eye
when I wrestled that wench known as “Dear Abigail.”

I made her a promise – to no avail,
she wanted me dead or else in jail!
She wanted me gone but would I go? Not I!
Pass the whisky.

I thought I got whacked by the tail of a whale
when she hit right here with a five gallon pail
and I needed a bit of repair. In reply
I got her but good, then I bade good bye
cuz I figgered it best that I hit the trail.
Pass the whisky.

[Luce]

Eira - Thank you Eira for coming back again to read the revision.
Yeah, I was wondering about that line too but hoped it would pass muster. It didn't really.

Larry and Merlin - Thank you Larry and Merlin for dropping by to read this one and providing some great feedback.

Boy, I screwed up big time with this Rondeau. I should of caught that refrain error in S1 and the rhyme pattern error in the last stanza.

I'm glad I'm in a gentle board like MM. Any other board and I'm sure my head would have been handed to me.

No excuse, I should of paid more attention to what I was doing. Oh well, most things are fixable.

Got lots to ponder and correct. At least I'll try to correct the obvious errors as soon as I can.

Maybe the best thing to do with doing a Rondeau is to do it in baby steps (without meter) until I'm more familiar with the form. Does it sound like a plan?

P.S. Eira - thanks for asking about my injury. My ankle is much better now. I twisted it running around but a few days rest took care of it.

[Luce]

Revision II is up. Corrected errors in basic form, made some new word choices and a few images.

Luce

[Larry]

Hi Luce,

Great revision! You've fixed most of the "bumps" and end-rhyme problems I ran into before. I have but three metrical suggestions to make which you may take or toss as you see fit.

S1/L3 - The other is dark, sharp with thorns (anapestic meter) Two unstressed followed by a stressed syllable.
Suggest: The other, dark, is sharp with thorns (iambic meter)

S3/L3 - Yet, the way that’s marred and forlorn (trochaic meter) Stressed followed by unstressed.

Suggest: If you leave it like that, "Yet" shouldn't be capitalized. There is no end-stop after "use".
and yet, the way that's marred, forlorn

S3/L4 - may lead to a brave life reborn (anapestic meter again)
Suggest: may lead to braver life reborn

I tried to keep all the words you used but rearranged a few of them to make your beautiful poem read in complete iambic tetrameter. As I said above, TOT!

As a side note, when I first read your poem, it reminded me of Frost's "The Road Not Taken". We should all watch which path we travel. You are on the right path with "The Choice".

Just trying to help!

Larry

[Luce]

Thanks Larry for coming back to see the revision and offering suggestions. The first two suggestions are great and can be easily incorporated into the poem. The third one, not that easily.

Saying "braver" infers that the N was already brave.

I want to imply a contrast. Saying "brave" infers that the N may not have been brave before. However, I run into meter problems.

If I want the Rondeau to be in strict iambic tetrameter, I'm going to have to think of another solution that keeps the intent I want for that line.

P.S. My biggest problem in doing things in meter is determining what is stressed and unstressed. Sometimes I know I'm in iambic because the line has a sing-song rhythm to it. Other times I know it isn't in iambic but don't know how to fix it because everything, after a while, sounds stressed.

[Larry]

Hi Luce,

You're right. "Braver" sounds kind of inane anyway. You might consider "valiant", "daring" or "fearless" and just leave the "a" off to keep the iambic beat.

As far as metrics, there are a number of books which help one recognize which is which but a lot of it is practice and the feel of the poem. Some of the folks here call it a "bump" and it makes the reader pause.

Glad you could use some of my suggestions. You'll get this gem polished yet.

Larry

[Luce]

Okay. I think I found the solution for L13. I'm using "august life reborn"/ It sounds iambic to me:
"may form an august life reborn". I hope it is.

Revision III has the changed line and the other two suggestions in it.

I've been reading a lot on meter on line and in MM besides reading metered pieces. This has helped.

But, I really need a good book on meter, especially on scansion Onlline references are good but it's taking a toll on my printer and memory. Any recommendations?

Luce

[Larry]

Hi Luce,

I do believe you have it now. Yes, it is iambic. I think you have finished polishing the gem and it shines very nicely.

As far as a book you might use, there are a few of them out there but with the lack of writers who even care whether their work has any meter or form, a lot of them are no longer easily available.

You might try finding a copy of Paul Fussell's, Poetic Metre and Poetic Form, McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-07-553606-4.

Again,

Great revision!

Larry

[Psyche]

Wow, you've really worked hard on your Rondeau, Luce. I've been away, so I'm enjoying this polished gem without having participated at all. I've read Larry's thorough explanation with enormous interest, as well as Merlin's search for knowledge that everybody seemed to lack. Me too!
So I have just two remarks to make, apart from my congratulations on your stunning progress in this complicated realm!

The Choice - Revision III

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world a brilliant blue.
The other - dark - is sharp with thorns
that rakes the heart until it’s torn


'rake' here, L4. It's the thorns that rake the heart. Apart from that, I wonder why you haven't used 'pierce' as Larry suggests? Well, maybe you're right...pierce the heart has become a cliché. A shame, because I can't imagine thorns raking the heart. It makes me visualize a garden rake...LOL...Don't worry, just me. But I may come back with another term, to ToT.


Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One road is filled with champagne dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other marked with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use.
And yet, the way that’s marred, forlorn
may form an august life reborn

I stumble in L4, because you mean 'august' in the sense of noble, and at least in my English the stress goes on the second syllable, as opposed to the month of August, stressed in the first syllable. Dunno...is that still iambic?

by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

Three revisions!! I feel ashamed, because I'm going to post another poem without having revised a previous one, also with enormous help from Larry and others (must check that). It's not lack of appreciation, it's lack of time, so sorry...
Syl***

The Choice - Revision II

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world a brilliant blue.
The other is dark, sharp with thorns
that rakes the heart until it’s torn
Two paths ahead amidst the yews.

One road is filled with champagne dew
and crystal dreams in sunset hues.
The other - marked - with hopes stillborn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe to use
Yet, the way that’s marred and forlorn
may lead to a brave life reborn
by saving others from abuse.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Revision

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other has life thick with thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom
in lilac scents and sunset hues.
The other has fogs soaked in scorn
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
to pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But the path that’s marred, deeply bruised
leads to an august life reborn
by fighting fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

The Choice - Original

Two paths ahead, which one to choose?
One paves the world in brilliant blues
the other is thick with diamond thorns
that rake the heart until it’s torn.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

One road is crammed with dreams in bloom
in lilac scents and sunset hues.
The second has fogs sodden with scorn
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

There’s no debate, nothing to lose
if I pick the road that’s safe and smooth.
But, the one that’s dark and deeply bruised
could lead to an august life reborn
by facing fears with love and truth.
Two paths ahead, which one to choose?

[Psyche]

And yes, I agree. The poet has made the best choice. It's a good theme.

BTW, apart from Frost's The Road not Taken, there's a book by a psychologist who uses the same title, 'tho I think he says The Road Least Taken. Shall look it up.

Luce, your Rondeau has helped me to reflect a lot.

Tx, Syl***

[Luce]

Hey Sylvia,

Glad you like the revision. Thanks for the feedback. Thought I'd respond to your suggestions.

Raked/Pierced - I chose "raked" over "pierced" purposely to show how repeated emotional injuries (disappointments, failures, grief etc.) can tear us down. The thorns "piercing the heart" is too quick an action really. It doesn't really convey the slow death of the spirit as shown in the thorn/rake/heart metaphor.

Of course I welcome any one syllable stressed word that can maintain the intent of the line as well as the iambic meter.

August - The stress is on the first syllable. I've checked a few online dictionaries before using August. One dictionary showed how August would be pronounce in the US and UK. Both put the stress on the 1st syllable.

The pronunciation doesn't seem to change if you're using it as an adjective or as a noun.

Luce

[Larry]

Hey Luce,

I believe what Syl was trying to say pertained to your usage of "rakes the heart" as opposed to using my suggestion of pierce.

In your first revision, I see you have the correct "thorns that rake the heart" but in future revisions, you used "thorns that rakes the heart" which is bad grammar. Thorn rakes - thorns rake!

That is my only nit and I would have seen it earlier but I cut and pasted your first revision and was using that version for my critique. My apologies for not catching it earlier but Sylvia is correct on that point.

Larry

[Luce]

Larry - Thanks for clarifying what Syl meant about the rake thing. I only focused on explaining why I chose "rake" instead of "pierce". I didn't catch the grammar part of it.

Sorry Syl. Misunderstood the feedback re rake/rakes.

And now after all this I'm changing rake to something else.

I also changed champagne to "joy's sweet dew" because both syllables in champagne sound stress to me now. "...joy's sweet dew" sounds more iambic. Well, I hope so or else I'm hearing things - literally.

Revision IV posted.



Luce

[Eisa]

Hi Luce,

you've worked very hard on every revision - and it shows! Well done! This last revision reads so smoothly, it's a pleasure to read.

Eira

[Larry]

Hi Luce,

A big thumbs-up for the revision. It is nice and smooth without bumps and reads very well.

I still like L2 better in your original and 1st revision:

One paves the world in brilliant blues as opposed to One paves the world a brilliant blue.

My reason - the first one leaves me with the impression that the paths are paved "in brilliant blues"
whereas the second one looks like the whole world is being paved "a brilliant blue".

Beside, it rhymes better!

Again, great job,

Larry