Patagonia Lost*** Revision II, Memories of the area where I grew up Options

[Psyche]

REVISION II

In many ways I’ve left behind the dreams and loves
I cherished most, and yet as years go by the word
adios still bonds me with the coos of turtledoves;
the glare of unreal Austral skies, where circling birds

will swoop to snatch a creature fleeing in the brush.
Of trails Tehuelche braves had stalked in bygone days;
of nomad campsites far from clamouring and rush,
before winka's armies carved the steppes with railways

forged by starved slaves to traffic Remmingtons, nor purged
the patterned prairies of jaguars and swift ñandues.
Where concrete dams and lines of pylons hum a dirge
on cactus flatlands, carcasses shed lucent hues

on llanos, swept anhydrous by the wailing wind.
Thus memory is laced with faded images
of childhood pastures; maybe teased by heartstrings pinned
to willpower's grip on truth despite ravages

of time and loss. So to the present day I smile
at all my lost or wayward worlds, horizons gone,
receding in a cone of plangent light. Meanwhile
the spirits summon me from mythic pantheons

of Patagonian lore. Captive of the fading
tones that grip my cowed heart, or force an odd grimace
cling to phantom walls. I cannot rouse the swaying
poplar trees, nor speak to you...caress your face.



Notes:
Tehuelche = original dwellers of northern Argentine Patagonia.
winka = foreigner, white man, liar.
ñandue = rhea americana (smaller and faster type of ostridge than in Australia)




REVISION I


In many ways I’ve left behind the dreams and loves
I cherished most, and yet as years go by the word
adios still binds me to the coos of turtledoves;
the glare of unreal Austral skies, where circling birds

will swoop to snatch a creature fleeing in the brush.
Of trails Tehuelche braves had stalked in bygone days;
of nomad camp sites far from clamour and rush,
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced steppes with railways

forged by starved slaves to traffic Remmingtons, nor purged
the patterned prairies of jaguars and swift ñandues.
Where concrete dams and lines of pylons hum a dirge
on cactus flatlands, carcasses shed lucent hues

on llanos, swept anhydrous by the wailing winds.
Thus memory is laced with faded images
of childhood pastures, or tugs at fragile heartstrings;
rends my will to not let go despite ravages

of time and loss. So to the present day I smile
at all my lost or wayward worlds, red horizons
receding in a cone of plangent light. Meanwhile
the spirits summon me from mythic pantheons

of Patagonian lore. Captive of the fading
tones that grip my cowed heart, or force an odd grimace
cling to phantom walls. I cannot rouse the swaying
poplar trees, nor speak to you, nor caress your face.




ORIGINAL

In many ways I’ve left behind the dreams and loves
I cherished most, and yet as years go by the word
adios still binds me to the coos of turtledoves;
glare of unreal Austral skies, where a circling bird

will swoop to snatch a creature fleeing in the brush.
Of trails Tehuelche braves stalked in bygone days,
of nomad camp sites remote from rumpus and rush,
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced the steppes with railways

forged by starved slaves to traffic Remmingtons, nor purged
the patterned prairies of jaguars and ñandues.
Concrete dams and lines of buzzing pylons emerged
on cactus flatlands, carcasses shed lucent hues

on llanos swept anhydrous by the wailing winds.
Thus memory is laced with faded images
of childhood pastures, as well as fragile heartstrings
the mind will not let go despite the ravages

of time and loss. So to the present day I smile
at all my lost or wayward worlds -red horizons
receding in a cone of plangent light- meanwhile
the spirits summon me from mythic pantheons

of Patagonian lore. Captive of the fading
tones that grip my cowed heart, or force an odd grimace
cling to phantom walls, I cannot rouse the swaying
poplar trees, nor speak to you, nor caress your face.

[Larry]

Syl,
What a sad litany of sorrow and loss for a devastated country and I believe I read a bit of sorrow and loss for devastation you feel in your personal life.

I didn’t know what kind of *** critique you wanted for your hexameter ballad so here are a few suggestions on end rhymes and metrics which may or may not help. Had to look up a few words to grasp their meaning; especially ñandues which I found to be Rheas. Not sure about the scansion of ñandues but believe it to be pronounced “nan-dews”. Correct me if I’m wrong. There were a few places where you may need more help with the meter (if that was even one of the things you needed help with). Anyway, this is the best I could do in two days of working on it.

As always, TOT!

Larry

In many ways I’ve left behind the dreams and loves
I cherished most, and yet as years go by the word
adios still binds me to the coos of turtledoves;
glare of unreal Austral skies, where a circling bird

suggest: (the glare of unreal Austral skies, where circling birds) this keeps your iambic hexameter instead of beginning the line with trochaic.

will swoop to snatch a creature fleeing in the brush.
Of trails Tehuelche braves stalked in bygone days,

suggest: (add “had” between braves and stalked)(line is short ½ foot)

of nomad camp sites remote far from rumpus and the rush,
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced the steppes with railways

(extra beat with “the”)

forged by starved slaves to traffic Remmingtons, nor purged
the patterned prairies of jaguars and (las) ñandues. (short a beat)[
Concrete dams and lines of buzzing pylons emerged
(trochaic start – one extra beat)
suggest: (Where concrete dams and lines of pylons hum a dirge)
on cactus flatlands, carcasses shed lucent hues

on llanos, swept anhydrous by the wailing winds.
Thus memory is laced with faded images
of childhood pastures, as well as fragile heartstrings
suggest: (of youth’s pastures, and as each fragile heartstring rends;)
the mind will not let go despite the ravages

of time and loss. So to the present day I smile
at all my lost or wayward worlds -red horizons
receding in a cone of plangent light- meanwhile

suggest: (… wayward worlds, horizons’ bones,
receding in a cone of plangent light. Meanwhile)
the spirits summon me from mythic pantheons

of Patagonian lore. Captive of the fading
tones that grip my cowed heart, or force an odd grimace
cling to phantom walls, I cannot rouse the swaying
poplar trees, nor speak to you, nor caress your face.

suggest: (comma after “grimace” and period after “walls”)
(I cannot rouse decaying…

As Merlin always says, There tis!

[Luce]

Very descriptive of a place and even a distant time. It's a place the N remembers with a mixture of fondness, longing and even anger.

But, I'm wondering if the form you used for the poem is restricting you as oppose to freeing you and the poem. It largely doesn't seem to read smoothly to me. It could be the length of each line, the long sentences and a few of the end rhymes which really don't rhyme well together. I don't know if you were trying to keep it in iambic or not. But, maybe doing the poem without worrying about the meter will give you the freedom you need. I would keep the rhyme scheme in the poem though. The majority of your end rhymes did work rather well except for a few exceptions.

Some suggestions/comments you can TOT:

In many ways I’ve left behind the dreams and loves
I cherished most, and yet as years go by the word
adios still binds me to the coos of turtledoves;
glare of unreal Austral skies, where a circling bird

S1L2 - I find myself having to reread the line over and over again. It's kind of long and the comma after "most" is too short a pause for me. Would suggest putting a more pronounce stop in L2 - "I cherished most. And yet, as years go by the word".
SlL2&3 - I like the use of the internal rhyme of most/adios in the line.
S1L4 - Agree with Larry on the metric suggestions for L4.

will swoop to snatch a creature fleeing in the brush.
Of trails Tehuelche braves stalked in bygone days,
of nomad camp sites remote from rumpus and rush,
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced the steppes with railways

S2L6 - Maybe "The" instead of "Of". Agree with Larry about adding "had".
S2L7 - Maybe "clamor" instead of "rumpus". Breaks up the string of "r" sounds (remote/rumpus/rush).
S2L8 - I think it would read better if you said "before" rather then "when"
S2L6-S3L10 -That's one very long run on sentence.

forged by starved slaves to traffic Remmingtons, nor purged
the patterned prairies of jaguars and ñandues.
Concrete dams and lines of buzzing pylons emerged
on cactus flatlands, carcasses shed lucent hues

on llanos swept anhydrous by the wailing winds.
Thus memory is laced with faded images
of childhood pastures, as well as fragile heartstrings
the mind will not let go despite the ravages

S3L14 & L16 - I can't see images and ravages rhyming well together to serve as end rhymes.

of time and loss. So to the present day I smile
at all my lost or wayward worlds -red horizons
receding in a cone of plangent light- meanwhile
the spirits summon me from mythic pantheons

S4LL18 & L20 - I can't see horizons and pantheons rhyming well together to serve as end rhymes

of Patagonian lore. Captive of the fading
tones that grip my cowed heart, or force an odd grimace
cling to phantom walls, I cannot rouse the swaying
poplar trees, nor speak to you, nor caress your face.

S5L22 & L24 - I can't see grimace and face rhyming well together to serve as end rhymes.

[Psyche]

Thanks so much, Larry, for taking time off to scan my ballad. I'm going to post a revision with most of your suggestions. When MM poets put *** it means that all crits and comments are welcome, of any kind.

You're right about this poem being a sad litany of land devastation as well as personal loss.

Vast areas of Argentina are being destroyed by powerful corporations to make loads of money, in connivence with governors and presidents. Forests, pampas and steppes are now barren. The seeds, pesticides and fertilizers are provided by the likes of Monsanto, Novartis, etc.
The Patagonian steppes are also destroyed by sheep brought over by European immigrants during the 19th. Century. Sheep nibble brush and other vegetation down to the roots. Their cloven hooves finish the job. Whereas the original peoples had only guanacos for fur and meat. These are medium camelidae with padded feet. They can go on long treks without water, same as camels.

About end rhymes, I'm partial to using near-rhymes for more freedom, especially in ballads. Not really for sonnets. I was trying to use meter properly, so you've been exceedingly helpful in all respects. Can't say enough to thank you!

Luce, I'm also very pleased with the attention you've payed to my poem. I may not agree with all you've said, but a lot makes sense to me. I'll be studying everything in my revision. The explanation about the devastation going on in my country is meant for you as well.

Tx so much, Larry and Luce.

Will post a revision asap.

Syl***

[Larry]

Hi Syl,

I know what the *** mean as far as critique or comments go, I just didn't know if you wanted rhyme help, metrical help or what. I prefer not to re-write someone's post when that is not actually what they are requesting.

As far as rhyme scheme, the only glaring error I spied was winds/heartstring. Most of the rest of them are considered to be consonantal rhyme which works with either the accented or unaccented beat; unaccented rhyme where the rhyme is on the final unaccented syllable or what is called spelling/sight rhyme where the spelling but not the sound of stressed vowels match. I've never been enamored with using gerunds for rhyming purposes it is done quite often and I must confess, I've done it a time or two myself.

Patiently awaiting your revision and I'm glad you could use some of my suggestions.

Larry

[Psyche]

Hi Larry and Luce,

I've made a first revision following your suggestions, especially Larry's advice on meter.
I also changed words Luce put forward. Thanks!
This is not a definite version. I just got too tired to continue.

Luce, I'm afraid I don't agree with you about the lines being too long. Ballads can have 12, 14 or more syllables per line. There are also versions with 8 syllables.
English sonnets mostly have 10 syllables, but in other languages, such as Spanish, they have 11 syllables. Rubén Darío introduced the alexandrian sonnet, which has 14 syllables.

The other issue we always have is about end rhymes. The same amount of syllables or not; and imperfect rhyming that mostly contains the same vowels but different consonants.

IMHO, horizons is OK with pantheons. They each have 3 syllables and the sound is similar.
I use the online Free Rhyming Dictionary which, combined with The Free Dictionary by Farlex, I can also get the British and U.S. pronunciations. Even the stress varies! They have little flags to click on for sound.

These dictionaries with Thesaurus give you the choice between Collins, Roget's and WordNet.

Still, as I said before, this is a partial revision and I'm very grateful to you both.
To be continued!

Syl***

[Larry]

Hi Syl,

I like your revisions but I still have one nit. "winds" and "heartstrings" don't rhyme. I've looked at all my rhyme variations and the only thing that comes anywhere close is "Interior rhyme" and I guess that would be okay but that usually occurs within the line and not at the end.

The other thing I wanted to add is for your last line. It will alleviate the extra syllable and have a greater impact for me.

Suggest: poplar trees, nor speak to you... caress your face.

There is a duality of meaning in the last words comprising the face of your beloved Patagonia and the face of your own love, both of which are gone.

Larry

[Eisa]

Hi Syl,

This is very nostalgic - I find myself looking back at the past a lot recently.

I like your revision which has smoothed out some bumpy parts. I have a few suggestions on your revision.

Of trails Tehuelche braves had stalked in bygone days;
of nomad camp sites far from clamour and rush, (only 11 syllables here)
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced steppes with railways

The meter in this last is a bit bumpy

rends my will to not let go despite ravages
could be evened out to (perhaps changes the meaning a bit)
my will cannot let go in spite of ravages


Take or toss these suggestions, Syl. I am thinking on another couple of lines and will return.

Hugs
Eira

[Luce]

Hey Syl,

Read your revision.

It's odd how certain end rhymes can not effect one person but to another, it's like fingernails on a chalk board. For me it's grimace/face, images/ravages & horizons/pantheons.

I can see why you picked them - mainly because of the similar endings in each pair: ..ace, ..ages ..on. However, the rhyme is soft and I wish they were stronger to anchor each pair.

Yet, using them allowed for greater expression in your poem and maybe in the end that's more important. There are enough end rhymes (and pretty cool ones too) in your ballad to make it a strong sonic piece.

[Merlin]

Hello Sylvia,
If compare this to the one (that I believe was...) entitled "Patagonia", it would be the latter that I prefer.
" He conocido
veranos patagónicos,
tardes diáfanas del solsticio austral; " ...

Merlin

There tis.

[Psyche]

Hi Merlin, or Eric Linden as you figure in FB!
Tx for stopping by.
Yes, I've made Spanish versions of quite a few of my Patagonian poems. Or vice-versa.
That one is in FV, of course. Glad you like it. Do you speak as well as read Spanish?

As I've said before, I haven't finished the revision of my ballad. There appear to be problems with English and American pronunciations. And stresses. Gotta think about all this. And slant rhymes.

There tis...LOL...we'll all be copying you.
Syl***

Hello Sylvia,
If compare this to the one (that I believe was...) entitled "Patagonia", it would be the latter that I prefer.
" He conocido
veranos patagónicos,
tardes diáfanas del solsticio austral; " ...

Merlin

There tis.

[Psyche]

OMG, Luce...your bit about fingernails makes me shiver all over.

Grimace/face are not soft end rhymes, the others are.

Grima'ce is stressed on the last syllable, so it ought to be OK with 'face'.

Still, you've cheered me a lot with your last comment about it's being a strong sonic piece! Yikes...

Syl***

Hey Syl,

Read your revision.

It's odd how certain end rhymes can not effect one person but to another, it's like fingernails on a chalk board. For me it's grimace/face, images/ravages & horizons/pantheons.

I can see why you picked them - mainly because of the similar endings in each pair: ..ace, ..ages ..on. However, the rhyme is soft and I wish they were stronger to anchor each pair.

Yet, using them allowed for greater expression in your poem and maybe in the end that's more important. There are enough end rhymes (and pretty cool ones too) in your ballad to make it a strong sonic piece.

[Psyche]

Hi Larry,
I quite agree about heartstrings/winds. I'm thinking on that one.

In the last line, where there's certainly a duality of meaning, do the three ... count as a syllable?

I'm so grateful for the time you've spent looking up rhyme variations and all the rest.
I'll continue revising, give me time...
Syl

Hi Syl,

I like your revisions but I still have one nit. "winds" and "heartstrings" don't rhyme. I've looked at all my rhyme variations and the only thing that comes anywhere close is "Interior rhyme" and I guess that would be okay but that usually occurs within the line and not at the end.

The other thing I wanted to add is for your last line. It will alleviate the extra syllable and have a greater impact for me.

Suggest: poplar trees, nor speak to you... caress your face.

There is a duality of meaning in the last words comprising the face of your beloved Patagonia and the face of your own love, both of which are gone.

Larry

[Psyche]

Hi Eisa,
Back again. Thanks for pointing out the line with 11 syllables. Something happened there when I revised.
I don't like 'rends my will....' I used rends at somebody's suggestion, can't remember. I like the way you've re-phrased it, so may use it when I continue revising.
I'm off to bed now!
Syl***

Hi Syl,

This is very nostalgic - I find myself looking back at the past a lot recently.

I like your revision which has smoothed out some bumpy parts. I have a few suggestions on your revision.

Of trails Tehuelche braves had stalked in bygone days;
of nomad camp sites far from clamour and rush, (only 11 syllables here)
when foreign armies hadn’t sliced steppes with railways

The meter in this last is a bit bumpy

rends my will to not let go despite ravages
could be evened out to (perhaps changes the meaning a bit)
my will cannot let go in spite of ravages


Take or toss these suggestions, Syl. I am thinking on another couple of lines and will return.

Hugs
Eira

[Larry]

Hi Syl,

Once again into the fray!

First, you got "rends" from me but not in the context it was used. Here is what I suggested as the end of S4/L3 to even the meter and to rhyme with "winds".
Instead of the line: "of childhood pastures, as well as fragile heartstrings" you might use - (of youth’s pastures, and as each fragile heartstring rends;). That way, the heartstring rends and not your will.

In answer to your question about the caesura (...), I believe that to be used as a pause for effect and is not counted as a syllable.

As to the line with 11 syllables, it should have read:

of nomad camp sites far from clamour and the rush, (you left out "the" before rush).

In S5/L2 I suggested earlier that you might consider using (… wayward worlds, horizons’ bones,). "Red horizons" is spondaic (two or more accented followed by an unaccented syllable). IMHO, it is a pretty rough bump. I have since given that line much thought and now suggest "horizons gone;". "Gone" is an exact rhyme with "pantheon" and there is an additional meaning inferred as to the ravages of what used to be beautiful horizons that no longer exist. TOT

It's looking a lot better and I've enjoyed helping you with this beautiful yet sad memory.

Larry

[Luce]

OMG, Luce...your bit about fingernails makes me shiver all over.

Grimace/face are not soft end rhymes, the others are.
Grima'ce is stressed on the last syllable, so it ought to be OK with 'face'.

Syl***

1. It looks like grimace can be pronounce two ways according to my MW dictionary (GRIM-ace or gri-MACE.

The first pronunciation puts the stress on the first syllable and the 2nd one on the 2nd syllable.

You're using the 2nd pronunciation which seems to be pronounced gri-MACE. Saying it that way, then it would rhyme with face. However, GRIM-ace is how I usually hear it here in the US and that is also acceptable. With that in mind, you can now see why I wasn't fond of grimace/face.

In the end, it's probably a US/UK difference. Both are fine. However, it can lead to miscommunication.

Now I'll share with you my favorite quote:

"England and America... two countries separated by a common language."

Bernard Shaw

Luce

[Psyche]

That's right, Luce, it's a matter of pronunciation. But Prof. Higgins complains in the musical "that Americans haven't spoken English for ages"...LOL.

It's all OK, we must just keep in mind these differences. In Australia or New Zealand you'd come across "another English"!!

Tx for returning with these comments, Luce.

I still haven't continued revising this poem. No time! Larry has helped a lot, I must sit down and work out the rest.

Syl***

OMG, Luce...your bit about fingernails makes me shiver all over.

Grimace/face are not soft end rhymes, the others are.
Grima'ce is stressed on the last syllable, so it ought to be OK with 'face'.

Syl***

1. It looks like grimace can be pronounce two ways according to my MW dictionary (GRIM-ace or gri-MACE.

The first pronunciation puts the stress on the first syllable and the 2nd one on the 2nd syllable.

You're using the 2nd pronunciation which seems to be pronounced gri-MACE. Saying it that way, then it would rhyme with face. However, GRIM-ace is how I usually hear it here in the US and that is also acceptable. With that in mind, you can now see why I wasn't fond of grimace/face.

In the end, it's probably a US/UK difference. Both are fine. However, it can lead to miscommunication.

Now I'll share with you my favorite quote:

"England and America... two countries separated by a common language."

Bernard Shaw

Luce

[Psyche]

Hi Larry, Eira, Luce, Merlin,

Here goes Revision II. I've followed Larry's advice mostly, but also included changes suggested by the rest of you. Or inspired by your comments.

I know it's still wobbly in some parts...sorry!

I want to thank you all for kindly helping me with my tricky ballad... The *** are still up, if any of you have patience to nit some more.

Cheers,
Syl***