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Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 15:09

*Graphic provided by
http://www.ladydorothea125.net/CelticCastleDesigns.html

Hi all,

This is a copy of the poem I've posted for Pandora - based on Grace's train photo: http://forums.mosaicmusings.net/images/train.jpg

I'm posting here because this represents a different type of poem from me and crit would be appreciated. Today I finished another poem in a similar mould, so I think some feedback on the style would be helpful. Thanks in anticipation, J.

This poem is to no know set form, as such.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Mike Gable, 2005. I, Mike Gable, do assert my right to be identified as the author of this work in accordance with Sections 77 and 78 of The Copyrights, Designs And Patents Act, 1988. (Laws of Cymru & England, as recognised by international treaties). This work was simultaneously copyrighted in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America. This work is posted as an unpublished work in order to elicit critical assistance and other helpful comment, only.

Update from AB to AC - thanks Nina. (Two small changes, as per Nina's crit).

Ref: MG 0455 AC

The (Failed) Gold Heist of 1950 - Part II
by MG

Our yearly visit
to Dad - who stole gold in transit,
failed his escape to Hermitage.

Journey to Leicester:
have I packed our souwesters?
Mum’s worry whilst squatting a midge.

Businessmen up front,
families behind, bearing their brunt,
so hot we’d love drinks from a fridge.

Rocks in the valley,
travel Scrabble with Aunt Sally,
watching for Indians on the ridge.

Passengers prattle,
our wooden carriages rattle,
as we track along this stone bridge.

(end)

Posted by: Don Aug 17 05, 15:23

Looks and sounds great to me Jox.

Don

Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 15:29

Thanks very much, Don.

I think you have its essence and I very much value your opinion.

Cheers, J.

Posted by: Cathy Aug 17 05, 16:00

Hi James,

I like this, it has a good flow to it and I like the rhyme
scheme you've used.  One question -

Journey to Leicester,
have I packed our souwesters?
Mum’s worry whilst squatting a midge.

Should "worry" be "worried"?

Cathy

Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 16:11

Hi Cathy,

Thanks for visiting and commentating - much appreciated. Thanks for your rhyme and flow observation - they are an important part of this.

One question -

Journey to Leicester,
have I packed our souwesters?
Mum’s worry whilst squatting a midge.

Should "worry" be "worried"?

What I mean there was that Mum's (singular) worry was if she'd packed the souwesters. She's not generally worried. Like saying "My only worry is that I won't be able to run a mile in under two hours." That sort of use.

I hope that makes sense?

Cheers, Cathy.

J.

Posted by: Nina Aug 17 05, 16:16

Hi J

Interesting reading a different style of poem from you.

Just a couple of queries:

Journey to Leicester,
have I packed our souwesters?
Mum’s worry whilst squatting a midge.

would a colon or semi-colon be better after Leicester?

Should "have I packed our souwesters?" be in speech marks as it's the Mum's thoughts?

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 16:35

Hi Nina,

Thanks for your visit and comments.

>N>Interesting reading a different style of poem from you.

Thanks. Well, as you well know, I always say I can't see rhythm in poems and I often remember to add the only exceptions being TS Eliot's "Skimbleshanks" poem and Auden's "Night Mail" poem - both about railways. So I decided, after Grace's stimulus-picture, to attempt my own railway-rhythm poem. It has to be read quite fast but I think it's getting there.

>N>Just a couple of queries:

Journey to Leicester,
have I packed our souwesters?
Mum’s worry whilst squatting a midge.

>N>would a colon or semi-colon be better after Leicester?

Yes, I think you're right, thanks - colon.

>N>Should "have I packed our souwesters?" be in speech marks as it's the Mum's thoughts?

Thanks, my posting error - the original is in italics; I forgot to format it properly.

Thanks, Nina, J.

Nina

Posted by: Cathy Aug 17 05, 16:46

Hi James,

It makes sense now, thanks for the explanation!  

Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 17:04

Hi Cathy,

Thank you!

J.

Posted by: Nina Aug 17 05, 17:23

Hi J

Thanks. Well, as you well know, I always say I can't see rhythm in poems and I often remember to add the only exceptions being TS Eliot's "Skimbleshanks" poem and Auden's "Night Mail" poem - both about railways. So I decided, after Grace's stimulus-picture, to attempt my own railway-rhythm poem. It has to be read quite fast but I think it's getting there.

I didn't actually read this very fast and I never even thought about any railway-rhythm till you mentioned it.  Perhaps some of the lines are too long to get that feel of speed, motion and sound of the train.

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 17 05, 17:38

Hi Nina,

Thanks for your reply.

>N>I didn't actually read this very fast and I never even thought about any railway-rhythm till you mentioned it.  Perhaps some of the lines are too long to get that feel of speed, motion and sound of the train.

I didn't think you would get it because neither thee nor me are really good at poetry rhythm - I wouldn't have got it if I hadn't writ it.

The approx 5/8/8 syllable pattern (varies a little) is mean to be the old train noise... But I knew it wasn't very good which is why I posted here to see what could be done.

It's something like

short (ch) (wheels move)
short (ch) (moving), short (Ch) (moving)
long (Cheer) (steam vents from wheels and moving gains more torque or whatever)

That's the idea, anyway.

I think a long sound did follow the shorter ones? No?

Ch Ch Ch Cheer, Ch Ch Ch Cheer, etc

I knew I should keep away from this sort of thing! :)

It's also meant to be a social commentary on the problems of meeting family in the days before personal transport and also of the Mother's disinterest in her husband's plight. But it is not especially deep, otherwise.

Cheers and thanks, J.

Posted by: Nina Aug 17 05, 23:29

Hi J

Thanks for the explanation as to the intended rhythm.  

I think a long sound did follow the shorter ones? No?
indeed you are right, one sound was slightly longer than the other 2 or 3.

I think I'll keep quiet now and leave further comment to the meter experts.

It's also meant to be a social commentary on the problems of meeting family in the days before personal transport and also of the Mother's disinterest in her husband's plight. But it is not especially deep, otherwise.

Indeed, much more up my street and I also felt sorry for the boy, missing out on relating to his father throughout his childhood, only getting to see him once a year.  Plus his friends were no doubt going on nice seaside holidays, to holiday camps etc, but his "holiday" is a visit to a prison, the only excitement being the train journey, something only experienced rarely no doubt

Nina

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 02:47

Hi Nina,

>N>Thanks for the explanation as to the intended rhythm.  

LOL proof positive that it failed! :)

>J>I think a long sound did follow the shorter ones? No?
>N>indeed you are right, one sound was slightly longer than the other 2 or 3.

But you think I have it too long. OK, ta.

>N>I think I'll keep quiet now and leave further comment to the meter experts.

Fine - though I'm not sure this has anything to do with conventional meter. Just a simple attempt at sound.

>J>It's also meant to be a social commentary on the problems of meeting family in the days before personal transport and also of the Mother's disinterest in her husband's plight. But it is not especially deep, otherwise.

>N>Indeed, much more up my street and I also felt sorry for the boy, missing out on relating to his father throughout his childhood, only getting to see him once a year.  Plus his friends were no doubt going on nice seaside holidays, to holiday camps etc, but his "holiday" is a visit to a prison, the only excitement being the train journey, something only experienced rarely no doubt.

Annually.

Yes, thanks very much for returning and commentating further; much appreciated.

J.

Posted by: JustDaniel Aug 18 05, 06:21

I do like your idea of the intended rhythm of riding on a railroad train, though I haven't quite felt it yet.  This is certainly one time when attention to metrical patterns might be a great assist in accomplishing that particular goal.

Grace's picture is stunning!  and you've done it justice with this imaginitive situation piece in the language of the area (I assume, since I don't understand some of it *smile* e.g. sounds like someone is sitting on the toilet at one point to my American ears!)

Looking forward to seeing how this clicks and clacks along Lightly, Daniel  :sun:

Posted by: Cybele Aug 18 05, 06:28

Hello James,

Having seen your reply that you were going for train/railway rhythm, I might suggest the clickety clack sound might be better portayed with a different layout and some minor changes. For example

Our yearly visit
to Dad - who stole
gold in transit,
failed his escape
to Hermitage.

Journey to Leicester:
"Have I packed
our souwesters?"
Mum worries while
squatting a midge.

First Class up front,
families behind,
bearing their brunt:
so hot we’d love
drinks from a fridge.

Rocks in the valley,
travel Scrabble
with Aunt Sally,
watch for Indians
on the ridge.

Passengers prattle,
carriages rattle,
as we track along
this stone bridge.

Choose or lose James. A rattling good story.

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 08:04

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your most engaging comments.

>D>I do like your idea of the intended rhythm of riding on a railroad train, though I haven't quite felt it yet.  This is certainly one time when attention to metrical patterns might be a great assist in accomplishing that particular goal.

Aye but I can't see any patterns, I'm afraid. All I tried to do is to rhyme a bit and to emulate a train by:

short
short short
-  L  O  N  G  -

>D>Grace's picture is stunning!  and you've done it justice with this imaginitive situation piece in the language of the area (I assume, since I don't understand some of it *smile* e.g. sounds like someone is sitting on the toilet at one point to my American ears!

It is an excellent pic, yes. Thanks for the compliment, too.

Sorry, what language don't you understand? I'm happy to translate. Apologies for not doing so already.

>D>Looking forward to seeing how this clicks and clacks along Lightly, Daniel  

Cheers, Daniel.

J.

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 08:11

Hi Grace,

Thanks for popping in and your hard work in re-setting the poem. That is very kind - appreciated :)

However, I think it explains why I can't hear rhythm - I don't hear a train in the re-setting. But I'm the only one to hear a train in my original. Proof positive that I do take these things differently to many people.

As I've mentioned to Nina and now Daniel, for me a train makes the following noise:

Che
Che Che
Cheeeee

short
short short
-  L  O  N  G  -

So equal length lines don't work for me.

When we meet at the pub we'll have to exchange train noises then I might understand more. Also, I don't know if modern diesel-electric trains make the same noise? They probably so as I think it depends more on the tracks than the train.

Thanks for the work Grace.

Until then

TooT TooT!

J.

Posted by: Don Aug 18 05, 08:50

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 10:56

Hi Don,

You're very kind. Thank you.

Best wishes,

J.

Posted by: Nina Aug 18 05, 14:15

Hi J

When we meet at the pub we'll have to exchange train noises then I might understand more.
we'd better not head for your local then!

Nina

Posted by: Don Aug 18 05, 14:55

You might meet at a switch yard and hear a multitude of differences.  Switch engines sound different that freight which sound different that express passenger which sound different than mail (either passenger or freight, but usually shorter).
Steam engine whistles differ from electric diesel, but those in the business discern nuances, you and I would neve hope to hear.

Clickety clack on the track seems to be a function of the track itself as well as the age and type of rail cars or engines. Weight and speed induce characteristic noises because of resonance and dampening of vibrations at different frequencies.

What are those rails called that are pulled up steep inclines like a roller coaster climb?  

I basically know enough to get out of the way of a train announcing its right of way.

Don

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 15:03

Hi Nina,

Ah! My local has a special glass cage for me :)

J.

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 15:11

Hi Don,

Thanks for your amazing in-depth train sounds info. I now know why I'm an amateur at rhyme - I never hear all that.

Here, when the maintence people are working on the railway track, they place small detonators up-track, so as a train approaches it causes small explosions and alerst the gang. That might be an interesting one to try!

Thanks, James.

Posted by: Don Aug 18 05, 16:03

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 16:16

Hi Don,

An ex pupil of mine made some home-made explosives and promptly (accidently) mutilated himself. Rather dangerous.

We live near a railway line so hear these detonators quite often. We also have poachers around - and the only difference is the volume (as you say).

Cheers, Don.

James.

Posted by: Don Aug 18 05, 16:31

I worked as a civilian engineer in military exposive devices for several years.  Our civilian test field had several blockhouses, and the entire facility was limited to 1/4 pound of explosive per test.  Needless to say 1/4 pound of military issue is infinitely dangerous. By the same token majority of tests employed a fraction of the maximum.  Individuals would ask, have you ever taken any home?  My quick response was that the test field had multiple safety procedures and checks.  To remove explosive from that environment not only  be illegal but would be folly.

Don

Posted by: Jox Aug 18 05, 17:09

Hi Don,

It would be mad, yes.

I've never even fired a gun (save the chained air rifles on fun fairs). We have very tight gun laws here - handguns illegal for example. But, of course, still the criminals obtain them - and still the London Police shot someone dead. Explosives - only terrorists seem able to have them.

J.

Posted by: Cleo_Serapis Jun 14 06, 18:56

Congrats James on your wizard award winning tile!

Well done!

~Cleo :)

Posted by: Nina Jun 14 06, 23:29

Hi J

Congratulations on your wizard award for this poem. Seems like Lori is tidying up the closets and discovering forgotten treasures.

Nina

Posted by: Cathy Jun 15 06, 06:14

Congratulations again James!

Cathy

Posted by: Jox Jun 15 06, 07:15

Hi Lori, Nina and Cathy - thank you all very much!

Nina - thank you for your comment - Treasure indeed! :) - Appreciated.

J.

Posted by: Toumai Jun 15 06, 07:54

Congratulations again, James

Another wizard feat

Fran

Posted by: Jox Jun 15 06, 09:33

Ta, Fran :)

J.

Posted by: Arnfinn Jun 16 06, 05:28

Hi James,

Congrats re The second W.


Reminds me (explosives) when I was in Nasho's...we all (idividually)had to throw hand-grenades over a bunker wall onto a target. I was one of the few soldiers that the NCO instructers wouldn't allow to prime our own bomb (detonator). We were the clumsy ones who dropped our rifle on parade etc...They drew straws for who would accompany each us into the bunker (there were 3 of us) I drew a Crpl Ludby a tough square jawed bloke, we went into the bunker and the object of the exercise was that, I recieved the bomb from Ludby, then released the spring from the bomb and toss the projectile over a ten foot wall towards the target, then retire to a second wall in the bunker. I glanced down at Ludby priming my bomb and the poor buggers fingers were shaking. I said i said 'For ****** sake mate, toss the bloody thing, and lets get outa herel'.

Sorry James, I longing to tell that story for ages.

I hope you dont mind.


John.

Posted by: Jox Jun 16 06, 15:14

Hi John,

>Jo> Congrats re The second W.

Cheers, mate.

>Jo> Reminds me (explosives) when I was in Nasho's...we all (idividually)had to throw hand-grenades over a bunker wall onto a target. I was one of the few soldiers that the NCO instructers wouldn't allow to prime our own bomb (detonator). We were the clumsy ones who dropped our rifle on parade etc...They drew straws for who would accompany each us into the bunker (there were 3 of us) I drew a Crpl Ludby a tough square jawed bloke, we went into the bunker and the object of the exercise was that, I recieved the bomb from Ludby, then released the spring from the bomb and toss the projectile over a ten foot wall towards the target, then retire to a second wall in the bunker. I glanced down at Ludby priming my bomb and the poor buggers fingers were shaking. I said i said 'For ****** sake mate, toss the bloody thing, and lets get outa herel'.

ROFL! Reminds me of a "Carry On" film, if you know those. Thanks for the laugh, Arn.

>A> Sorry James, I longing to tell that story for ages.

Ta, John :)

>Jo> I hope you dont mind

No, the crit on this is long-since done, ta.

Cheers, John.

J.