Chivalrous Knight Options

[Cleo_Serapis]

Chivalrous Knight (revised 19 Jul 2005 - TY Fran!)

Honorable quest from days of old
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seeking true justice, championing rights.

Love thy woman, second only to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest of fights.
Munificent wealth is bestowed, thwarting greed,
ennobling self in word and in deed.

Ten virtues exist most importantly,
in Knighthood's quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times
blessed by the Church to oppose mortal crimes.

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield;
Ethics of JUSTICE, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintain;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

By oath DEFEND Liege Lord and state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH.
Bequeath acts of LARGESSE, criticize greed.
HUMILITY illustrates virtuous deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Ideals pursued, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, venerable sight;
His guiding spirit; the gentlest of Knights.

Copyright © Lorraine M Kanter
All rights reserved as an unpublished work.


Chivalrous Knight (Revised) - TY Tom & Alan!  

An honorable quest from days of old
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling thyself in word and deed.

There exist ten virtues importantly,
of Knighthood's armored quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times
by Holy Church, opposing mortal crimes.

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield;
Ethics of JUSTICE endorsed, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintained;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

By forsworn oath DEFEND Liege Lord and state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH.
LARGESSE in paths of pity, scorning greed.
HUMILITY, displayed to show good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Ideals pursued, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, and honour polished bright.
His guiding spirit; gentlest of Knights.

Chivalrous Knight  

An honorable quest from days of old,
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instill virtues of Knights,
seekers of justice, enforcers of rights.

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling himself, far greatest by deed.

There exists ten virtues mightiest to thee,
O’ Knighthood, armored quest of gallantry.
Introduced by the Church of Medieval
times, opposing crusades of upheaval.

Covenant LOYALTY, steadfast ideals,
Ethics of JUSTICE endorsed, knights do wield.
Strength to seek excellence, PROWESS maintained;
Sacrifice COURAGE for truth, Knights doth gain.

Sworn oath to DEFEND Liege Lord and his state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH.
Discern paths of pity, LARGESSE defies greed.
Manage HUMILITY; preach brethren good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Emulate these ideals, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, key quality of Knights.
His guiding spirit; gained honor ~ Knight’s plight.

[Guest__*]

Have at thee knave.

Thou dost address the appointment of ye anciente virtues to be beholden by knights of old. Yea, verily, and in rhyme to boot.
Gadzooks!

The protocol for a narrative or ballad poem is that the rhyme scheme and syllabic stress proposed in the first verse are maintained throughout the poem.
If such be your intent, fair lady, then thou must do some editing, and in the nonce, thee may lose some of the choice portions of thy poem. Thou may'st hate me in the morning.  

First of all, we should bring our English up to date. Thees and thys etc. are no longer practiced, unless thee be a Quaker or Amish.

I'll be ruthless, then you can discard the most cutting edges.
I've tried to hold true to the message, but some phrases I had to rearrange, some words I had to replace with similar words. All this is the name of scansion.

An honorable quest from days of old,
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.

Love your woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend your Holy faith with fierce fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling the self, in word and deed.

Ten virtues there exist, importantly,
for Knighthood's armored quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times,
by Holy Church opposing mortal crimes.

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield,
Ethics of endorsed JUSTICE, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintained;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

By oath forsworn to guard Liege Lord and state,
your holiest lay is founded fast in FAITH.
LARGESSE in paths of pity,scorning greed.
HUMILITY; displayed to show good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Ideals pursued, all other vices quelled.
Renown thus earned, and HONOUR polished bright.
His guiding spirit;gentlest of Knights .


FRANCHISE - permit or licence. ??

I got carried away a bit with my two handed sword.
But I hope I offerred a pattern for you to reconstruct

Hugz

Tom
.

[Jox]

Hi Lori,

As we both realise, you and I are somewhat akin to "chalk and cheese" in writing so I find it very difficult to crit this. Tom's comments are, I imagine. excellent technical points which will make for a more accurate and, thereby, more appealling poem. Since you, too, are very strong on writing poetry to be technically exact I think that his advice is probably far better than anything I can offer.

However, as you can guess, I would not wish to say nothing!

The view of knights which you portray is very accepting of the legend. In truth, many bought utter misery. (I can think of many of today's knights who still do, by the way - or in some cases, recently have. (I had better not start on Baroness Thatcher!)).

I did not quite understand this:

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ

Were they two seperate instructions? Or were you saying "women second to Christ"? (Which, of course, would be the priority in the days of yore.

I didn't understand:

Introduced by the Church of Medieval
times, opposing crusades of upheaval

Are we talking about some other crusades? (The main ones being to quell Saracen opposition to the RC Church).

When you went through the knights' virtues I thought the poem was at its strongest. I felt that the list was as well presented as a list in poetry can be.

Just one comment there: state/faith seem almost to be half-rhyme - whilst the others are full rhyme.

I had a slight problem with the following:

Renown thus earned, key quality of Knights.
His guiding spirit; gained honor ~ Knight’s plight.

You seemed to switch rather suddenly from knights plural to knight singular.

Well, I hope all that is fair and helpful. Good luck!

J.

[Cleo_Serapis]

Have at thee knave.

Thou dost address the appointment of ye anciente virtues to be beholden by knights of old. Yea, verily, and in rhyme to boot.
Gadzooks!

The protocol for a narrative or ballad poem is that the rhyme scheme and syllabic stress proposed in the first verse are maintained throughout the poem.
If such be your intent, fair lady, then thou must do some editing, and in the nonce, thee may lose some of the choice portions of thy poem. Thou may'st hate me in the morning.  

First of all, we should bring our English up to date. Thees and thys etc. are no longer practiced, unless thee be a Quaker or Amish.

I'll be ruthless, then you can discard the most cutting edges.
I've tried to hold true to the message, but some phrases I had to rearrange, some words I had to replace with similar words. All this is the name of scansion.

An honorable quest from days of old,
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.

Love your woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend your Holy faith with fierce fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling the self, in word and deed.

Ten virtues there exist, importantly,
for Knighthood's armored quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times,
by Holy Church opposing mortal crimes.

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield,
Ethics of endorsed JUSTICE, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintained;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

By oath forsworn to guard Liege Lord and state,
your holiest lay is founded fast in FAITH.
LARGESSE in paths of pity,scorning greed.
HUMILITY; displayed to show good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Ideals pursued, all other vices quelled.
Renown thus earned, and HONOUR polished bright.
His guiding spirit;gentlest of Knights .


FRANCHISE - permit or licence. ??

I got carried away a bit with my two handed sword.
But I hope I offered a pattern for you to reconstruct

Hugz

Tom
.

Hi Tom.

I thank you for your detailed critique~ WOW~  :snowflake:  :reindeer:

Hmmm- I wasn't trying to write a ballad, but I see that some of your suggestions would 'fit' better in this piece!  :dunce:  The word "Holy" seems to give such a tart rhythm/syllabic stress in my ear?

I will consider your ideas on a future revision kind Sir!  :vic:

One I particularly like:
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.


Hugaroooooos!
~Cleo

[Siren]

Chivalrous Knight  

An honorable quest from days of old,
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instill virtues of Knights,
seekers of justice, enforcers of rights.

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling himself, far greatest by deed.

There exists ten virtues mightiest to thee,
O’ Knighthood, armored quest of gallantry.
Introduced by the Church of Medieval
times, opposing crusades of upheaval.

Covenant LOYALTY, steadfast ideals,
Ethics of JUSTICE endorsed, knights do wield.
Strength to seek excellence, PROWESS maintained;
Sacrifice COURAGE for truth, Knights doth gain.

Sworn oath to DEFEND Liege Lord and his state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH.
Discern paths of pity, LARGESSE defies greed.
Manage HUMILITY; preach brethren good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Emulate these ideals, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, key quality of Knights.
His guiding spirit; gained honor ~ Knight’s plight.

© 2003 Lorraine M Kanter
All rights reserved by Lorraine M Kanter as an unpublished work.

Lori,

I feel as though I've entered Camelot. :)

I know I am required to critique here, but how can I find nits in perfection?

I truly loved reading this... the flow and rhyme scheme were smooth...


Hugs

Dani

[Guest__*]

Dear Dani

"I feel as though I've entered Camelot. :)
I know I am required to critique here, but how can I find nits in perfection?
I truly loved reading this... the flow and rhyme scheme were smooth..."


This IS a perfectly good critique. I think some mistake "critique" with critical. You have given your view, well done.

There are plenty of poems posted in MM which I have nothing to say about. One of the reasons is that there is nothing to improve !

And if someone wants to praise and rave, well, one could say that is the best critique one can get !

Love
Alan

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Lori,

As we both realise, you and I are somewhat akin to "chalk and cheese" in writing so I find it very difficult to crit this. Tom's comments are, I imagine. excellent technical points which will make for a more accurate and, thereby, more appealling poem. Since you, too, are very strong on writing poetry to be technically exact I think that his advice is probably far better than anything I can offer.

However, as you can guess, I would not wish to say nothing!

The view of knights which you portray is very accepting of the legend. In truth, many bought utter misery. (I can think of many of today's knights who still do, by the way - or in some cases, recently have. (I had better not start on Baroness Thatcher!)).

Well, I hope all that is fair and helpful. Good luck!

J.

Hi James!

Ooopsie - I hadn't seen replies here!  :speechless:  :dunce:
While I thank you for the compliments, I have a LONG way to go on technically correct writing habits!

I find metered poetry to be extremely difficult, so I do not often write that way, because I get a little lazy. When I seek a challenge though, you can bet your money that I'll try FORM poetry of some kind!  :drill:

I certainly appreciate all the help along the way!  :cloud9:

I did not quite understand this:

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ

Were they two seperate instructions? Or were you saying "women second to Christ"? (Which, of course, would be the priority in the days of yore.

No -I was saying 'complimentary' to Christ. The Church played a huge role in the Knighthood conquests of the day, and 'thy woman' was considered just as important to the knight as Christ. The Church also agreed that only the spiritual love of Christ was superior to that of his woman.

I didn't understand:

Introduced by the Church of Medieval
times, opposing crusades of upheaval

Are we talking about some other crusades? (The main ones being to quell Saracen opposition to the RC Church).

Yes - Crusades in the literal sense, but also in the meaning of WAR in general.

When you went through the knights' virtues I thought the poem was at its strongest. I felt that the list was as well presented as a list in poetry can be. Just one comment there: state/faith seem almost to be half-rhyme - whilst the others are full rhyme.

Thank you! Yes, I had revised that a few times in previous version of this piece, and I will most likely be making changes again soon.

I had a slight problem with the following:

Renown thus earned, key quality of Knights.
His guiding spirit; gained honor ~ Knight’s plight.

You seemed to switch rather suddenly from knights plural to knight singular.

I hadn't that it switched to singular? Perhaps I need to remove that apostrophe?

Thanks for stopping in and offering your critique!  :cheer:
Cheers!
~Cleo

[Cleo_Serapis]

Lori,

I feel as though I've entered Camelot. :)

I know I am required to critique here, but how can I find nits in perfection?

I truly loved reading this... the flow and rhyme scheme were smooth...

Hugs

Dani

Ohhh My Daniah!  :vic:

Thanks so much for your kind words!  :cheer:  :sings:

I always appreciate your feedback!

Now -where's your Camelot Pieces? I know I've read a few before.  :king:

Hugarooooos!
~Cleo  :pharoah:

[Cleo_Serapis]

Dear Dani

"I feel as though I've entered Camelot. :)
I know I am required to critique here, but how can I find nits in perfection?
I truly loved reading this... the flow and rhyme scheme were smooth..."


This IS a perfectly good critique. I think some mistake "critique" with critical. You have given your view, well done.

There are plenty of poems posted in MM which I have nothing to say about. One of the reasons is that there is nothing to improve !

And if someone wants to praise and rave, well, one could say that is the best critique one can get !

Love
Alan

You said it Alan! Even if the reader finds nothing they wish to comment on, a comment to that end is still very much appreciated!  :cloud9:

Cheers!
~Cleo  :pharoah:

[Cleo_Serapis]

Thank you very much Tom for your insight and awesome crit! I've made a revision based on your suggestions today.

HUGS!
~Cleo :) :)

[Guest__*]

Dear Cleo

Now very good but guess what - I have a few punct ideas - change where I put * - toss if you will.

The other point I notice while going through is that you are at times addressing Kinght, and then sometimes KnightS ! Needs resolving !

Chivalrous Knight

An honorable quest from days of old*
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.

Love thy woman, ancillary to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest fight.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling thyself* in word and deed.

There exist* ten virtues importantly, - for plural virtueS !
of Knighthood's DEL* quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times*
by Holy Church,* opposing mortal crimes.

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield;*
Ethics of JUSTICE endorsed, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintained;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

By forsworn oath DEFEND Liege Lord and state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH. -- do you mean "holiness" ?
LARGESSE in paths of pity, scorning greed.
HUMILITY,* displayed to show good deeds.

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld,*
Ideals pursued, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, and HONOUR polished bright.
His guiding spirit; gentlest of Knights.


Cleo this is coming along nicely - quite a mouthful to write, so well done, but a little more digestion required imho !

Love
Alan

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hi Alan!
Yes - a mouthful to write and read!

I have incorporated most of your suggestions and I thank you!

No - I did mean holiest - not holiness....

Cheers!
~Cleo :)

[Cleo_Serapis]

Bump :block:

Seeking to smooth the meter a bit please...

THX

[Toumai]

Hi Cleo,

I am not sure if I have grasped even the beginnings of meter yet, but I can say where I find the flow awkward, which (at least occasionally) seems to ammount to the same thing when our experts explain.

Anyway, it seemed like you are (in knightly language) throwing down the gauntlet, so I'll have ago.

This is a fascinating description of the attributes of a knight, and you obviously know far more of their history than I do.  

I agree with Alan that knight should be singular or plural - slips about a bit at the moment. I think the tenses need a careful check, too.

I have been rather fierce with this crit, but I assume that is what you are after (she says, fingers crossed as she speaks).

Hugs,
Fran

Chivalrous Knight  

An honorable quest from days of old
set forth by church and court thus told.
Rough warriors instilled with grace of Knights,
seekers of justice, champions of rights.

L1 'an honorable' is a bit of a mouthful right at the off; is the 'an' needed? or could you start 'honorable' ?

L4 would 'seeking true justice, championing rights' work? (alos no problem singular vs pl then)

Love thy woman, ancillary second only to Christ,
defend Holy faith with the fiercest of fightS.
Wealth is bestowed with largesse, thwarting greed,
ennobling thyself in word and in deed.

L1 maybe something like 'Love thy woman, second only to Christ' ?

There exist ten virtues importantly,
of in Knighthood's armored quest for gallantry.
These, introduced in Medieval times
by Holy Church, opposing mortal crimes.

L1 need comma after virtues, OR invert word order?
( Ten virtues exist most importantly, )

L4 Since S1 is present tense at end, should this be ' ... opposE mortal crimes' ? may need to add extra syl to make up meter? Holy ROMAN Church?

The covenant of LOYALTY shall not yield;
Ethics of JUSTICE endorsed, knights will wield.
PROWESS and strength in excellence maintained;
COURAGE in truth, the parfait Knight shall gain.

L1 is lovely
L2 is a mouthful and a half; would it work to drop the 'endorsed' ?
L3 'maintained' past tense? drop the ED?

By on forsworn oath DEFEND Liege Lord and state,
Thy holiest lay in foundations of FAITH.
LARGESSE in paths of pity, scorning greed.
HUMILITY, displayed to show good deeds.

L2 not quite sure what this means.
'Thy holiest laid the foundations ... ' ?

L3 lagesse also in S2 (L3)
L4 'humility displayed' sounds like a bit of an oxymoron?

NOBILITY sought, grown character upheld.
Ideals pursued, a FRANCHISE quelled.
Renown thus earned, and with honour polished shining bright.
His guiding spirit; the gentlest of Knights.

L2 not sure what franchise means here. Also, drop ED on quelled?

[Nina]

Hi Lori

An interesting tale of Knights of old.  I'm afraid that I can't help you much on meter as it seems fine as it is.  I like the list of virtues and the way you have expanded them.

Thanks for resurrecting this.  There are so many wonderful poems/stories hidden away in the archives, that I have never seen and it is lovely when they bubble up to the surface again.  From time to time I do try and have a look through, but there is so much to read.

Just a thought - Perhaps it might be a good idea if someone remembers a particular poem from way back that stuck with them for some reason, to bump it up for us all to read and enjoy.

Nina

[Cleo_Serapis]

Hello Fran and Nina!

Fran - you have enlightened me with your FAB critique! I KNEW I wasn't happy with this piece and you've made me realize some of the areas for improvement finally! TY! I was focusing so MUCH on the syllable count per line moreso than 'flow' that there are so many un-necesary words here (IMPO).

I am really happy with your ideas and will be back very soon to incorporate some of them.  YES - this was the HEAVY crit forum B4, so that is what I expected in a crit.

Nina - thanks for stopping by! I think this is in need of fewer words at least!

Yes - remember I had mentioned this somewhere in the past - to try and 'bump' tiles from older pages to get a fresh look at them (and for newbies too). And also the memo in our sigs now too...

Great idea!

Thanks ladies!

~Cleo

[Cleo_Serapis]

Revised - thank you Fran!

[Toumai]

Hi, Cleo

Glad some of the suggestions were of use.

I like that 'munificent wealth' - what a wonderful phrase  :pharoah2

Hugs,

Fran